Feeder Work Question

[cachsux]

I understand what your saying and there is nothing wrong with that approach, however sometimes the customers do not see these things through our eyes and dont quite understand the way we try to segregate our packages All they see is the cost and how it impacts their bottom line, so if we can be flexible in some areas to inable us to keep buisness that we would otherwise lose I see that as a victory for all of us. I know here on the west coast feeder is very teritorrial even between other buildings, they dont like to give anything up specially to freight guys. With that said I still think that whats important is that we can keep customers without jeopardizing our company, and apparently the union agrees. No hard feelings we just can agree to dissagree.

If sales has to make a deal to keep business by offering a lower rate,fine. But the work should be handled by the UPS division it is intended for. If its 50 boxes on a pallet delivered as a pallet then by all means freight should get it. If its 50 boxes on a pallet broken down at a building the delivered as 50 deliveries then its feeder/package work.

I don`t have a problem with you past your comment of "it`s just one feeder job". I feel it`s important to protect both our jobs. The previously mention package to my house wasn`t picked up as one lone package by Freight. It was on a pallet and broken down. That was feeder work. When they delivered one lone package to my house on a Freight semi, that was package work. Take all the packages together and that was part of some ones package route. The time to stop this is now when they first try it not when it`s past practice.

 

[gandydancer]

I dont know much about this stuff, but a truck from Ohio driven by Joe Schmoe with palletized packages, unloaded and sorted at a hub, is technically UPS feeder work?

This isn't Joe Schmoe LTL, this is UPS Freight. This is UPS Logistics offering the customer a lower price to have the run to a UPS hub performed by UPS Freight rather than by a UPS feeder. This isn't the customer deciding anything other than to take the lower price if it's offered to him. This is a lead from a UPS feeder driver that UPS Logistics converted into an opportunity to cut feeder jobs. What part of this are you not getting?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

This isn't Joe Schmoe LTL, this is UPS Freight. This is UPS Logistics offering the customer a lower price to have the run to a UPS hub performed by UPS Freight rather than by a UPS feeder. This isn't the customer deciding anything other than to take the lower price if it's offered to him. This is a lead from a UPS feeder driver that UPS Logistics converted into an opportunity to cut feeder jobs. What part of this are you not getting?

So you're telling me that it's UPS freight bringing in the trailers I see, that are UPS affiliated, yet not driven by identifiable UPS or UPS freight drivers?

I see trailers that are full of palletized packages yet it is not UPS moving them, freight or feeder, at least that I can tell...

 

[gandydancer]

So you're telling me that it's UPS freight bringing in the trailers I see, that are UPS affiliated, yet not driven by identifiable UPS or UPS freight drivers?

I see trailers that are full of palletized packages yet it is not UPS moving them, freight or feeder, at least that I can tell...

No, I recapitulated the events av8torntn described. You seem to be describing something different. You're seeing "UPS affiliated" trailers arriving not pulled by either UPS or UPSF tractors? Or UPS or UPSF tractors "not driven by identifiable UPS or UPS freight drivers"? Sorry, I'm not following you.

 

[705red]

I understand what your saying and there is nothing wrong with that approach, however sometimes the customers do not see these things through our eyes and dont quite understand the way we try to segregate our packages All they see is the cost and how it impacts their bottom line, so if we can be flexible in some areas to inable us to keep buisness that we would otherwise lose I see that as a victory for all of us. I know here on the west coast feeder is very teritorrial even between other buildings, they dont like to give anything up specially to freight guys. With that said I still think that whats important is that we can keep customers without jeopardizing our company, and apparently the union agrees. No hard feelings we just can agree to dissagree.

In this case that we have the information on, av8 won this business with hard work and dedication to the customer. The customer was contacted by obviously a sales rep who had to have offered this service of freight moving our work. I believe the customer is looking for the cheapest way to ship their packages, but i also believe that the sales rep pushed freight as the driver to do the work.

You spoke on it only costing us 1 feeder job, that we know of. If this is happening now were av8 is do you believe that its not happening evry were else? freights revenue grew by 99% and by reading av8's posts and cachsux its obvious more of our work is being diverted to freight than we truly know.

If we dont stop this now, its quite possible than more of our work will be diverted and we wont have jobs in the near/far future. Ups always looks years down the road and i see this as one of our biggest issues to deal with right now!

 

[av8torntn]

This is an update. I challenged based on this part of the contract. The reply from the local was that UPS can move "equipment" however they want. I asked what this meant and was told to just read the contract.

Section 4.

Work Assignments
The Employer agrees to respect the jurisdictional rules of the Union and, except as otherwise provided
in this Master Agreement, Supplements, Riders, or Addenda, shall not direct or require their employees
or persons, other than employees in the bargaining units here involved, to perform work which is
recognized as the work of the employees in said units. This is not to interfere with bona fide agreements
with bona fide unions. The Employer further agrees not to combine into a single job work
presently performed by members of one Teamster Local Union with work presently performed by
members of another Teamster Local Union.​

While I agree that it is none of my business how our customers decide to enter their packages into the UPS system I cannot understand (at least not yet) how UPS can choose how to move them based on cost or convenience. I base this on UPS supply chain solutions being a part of UPS. The stand of our local is that since these guys are non union UPS can use them to divert work to a third party at will.​

Any other ideas? Thanks for the replies to all.

There were other articles that I tried as well but they were all shot down. They also claim that this is a Southern region agreement to allow UPS to move feeder work by third party. They would not show me this agreement even though I asked nicely. I was polite even though filled with rage. All I could think of was all this money I'm spending on membership and I cannot even get someone to take five minutes to explain this to me.​

 

[av8torntn]

What is there to stop UPS supply chain from handing a Diad to a third party guy and saying hey the customer requests sat. delivery for ground packages? If this is prohibited in the contract it would seem like moving loads by a third party would also be prohibited.

 

[cachsux]

So you're telling me that it's UPS freight bringing in the trailers I see, that are UPS affiliated, yet not driven by identifiable UPS or UPS freight drivers?

I see trailers that are full of palletized packages yet it is not UPS moving them, freight or feeder, at least that I can tell...

As far as I can tell Ups packages are picked up by Ups Freight,taken to a Ups Freight building,and delivered by a Ups freight driver. In the case of my package it should have been picked up by a feeder/package driver and been delivered by a package car driver. It was not a freight order or delivery. If I had ordered a pallet of stuff then thats another story.
As far as Ups Freight bringing in trailers to a Ups package facility that hasn`t happened,yet,at least at the Cach. The minute a Ups freight driver brings in a trailer which is spotted on the wall and unloaded into the system as packages we`ll know as there are only a few places Freight delivers to at our building. If one of their trailers is on the wall it`ll get noticed,especially on the primaries,and grievances will be filed in short order.

 

[JimJimmyJames]

I have seen UPSF pulling FSTZ boxes. If they brought one of them into CACH it might be harder to tell if UPSF is bringing packages into the Hub for the primary.

 

[cachsux]

Believe me,we see everybody who comes in. There`s enough eyes around to see who brings in what and what the trailer numbers are. As soon as they are inbounded we can pull them up on the computer in the trucks and see their destination. Any USPF bringing in a tlr that comes up as any dest will send up flags. If UPSF brings something now it`s usually a delivery for one of the shops or P.E.

 

[sortaisle]

I dont mean to sound like Im a company man but the fact that 6 pages later and the one point that seems to keep being overlooked is that these packages are still in the UPS system. Maybe there is a feeder job or two that have been sacrificed but how many delivery jobs have been saved. Regardless of how those packages get to the hub it still takes indivisual drivers to deliver each one of them. If anything this has actually saved jobs as opposed to eliminate them. Besides here on the west coast feeder drivers just go back to package, so infact there is no loss of a paycheck for you or any other UPS employee. On behalf of other package drivers Thank You, and we look forward to seeing you at the PCM.

You have some good points, but I think you're a bit naive. Not all feeder drivers came from package car. Some came from pt so there is a huge paycheck difference. Also, the feeder drivers that do go back to package car means that someone that used to work everyday gets laid off because of seniority.

The other question I'm wondering about is this. We get crapped on about the integrity of the pickup scans. If the company creates a huge fuss about visibility of packages yet has ups drivers sign and scan for stuff that freight took, then the integrity and the visibility is compromised. If there is an explanation for that, then I'd like to know for peace of mind. If there is no explanation, then I would say that they should be a little more lenient on drivers who forget to scan their missed packages. Fair is fair.

 

[av8torntn]

Grievances filed. Grievances lost. Panel would not even hear them. Not sure if that is correct term. BA said they "settled" it without allowing him to present his case. The decision was that UPS can move the loads any way they choose until they get to a hub. It does not matter if everyone at the building is a UPS employee as long as it is not called a hub. They also used the line some of you on here have said as well. You should be happy a UPS driver at least gets to deliver these packages. I am disappointed to say the least.

 

[705red]

Sorry to hear that av8! Sounds like your union is spooning with big brown.

On a side not, i have been making a stink about our vending machines. We just had the older vender replaced with a new vendeor who raised the prices. Chips used to be 45 cents now a buck, cofffee is now 75 cent from 35, snickers 60 now 80. I have now been told to file a grievance by the union for raising the prices. My little 705 will fight any fight while other locals would rather get along to get along!

 

[tieguy]

I dont know much about this stuff, but a truck from Ohio driven by Joe Schmoe with palletized packages, unloaded and sorted at a hub, is technically UPS feeder work?

Its not our work until the customer tenders the work to UPS small package to move and process. Customers have been zone skipping for years where they hire a contractor to move a load to ups buildings to get the cheaper rates of the building they are moving the load to. From what I heard it was actually X-upsers that came up with the idea and started the service to skip zones. I sat in a high level meeting with a very large customer where one of their VP's raised the issue of building direct loads to buildings to not only save cost but to also improve time in transit. When that happens we are not going to say no to them and lose the business to fdx we will help them do it to keep the business. If they will let small package move it from their doorstep then we'll be more then happy to do so since it helps our profits. But if they want to pursue a cheaper option then we will still do so to keep their business.

Its not an easy issue from the unions perspective but keeping the business means ups teamsters somewhere are handling and moving the packages. If we lose the business outright then we all lose.

 

[tieguy]

Sorry to hear that av8! Sounds like your union is spooning with big brown.

On a side not, i have been making a stink about our vending machines. We just had the older vender replaced with a new vendeor who raised the prices. Chips used to be 45 cents now a buck, cofffee is now 75 cent from 35, snickers 60 now 80. I have now been told to file a grievance by the union for raising the prices. My little 705 will fight any fight while other locals would rather get along to get along!

what article in the contract will you grieve?

 

[tieguy]

Sorry to hear that av8! Sounds like your union is spooning with big brown.

Thats the other side of this issue that adds to the complexity. UPS freight will probably be organized soon adding more teamsters to the roles. The logistics companies UPS creates are all opportunities for the teamsters to add more members to the ranks. So UPS's expansion in these areas is good for the overall health of the teamsters.

 

[Catatonic]

On a side note, i have been making a stink about our vending machines. We just had the older vender replaced with a new vendeor who raised the prices. Chips used to be 45 cents now a buck, cofffee is now 75 cent from 35, snickers 60 now 80. I have now been told to file a grievance by the union for raising the prices. My little 705 will fight any fight while other locals would rather get along to get along!

what article in the contract will you grieve?

Beat me to it!

Surely, you are not serious. That's just too darn funny!
I would like to be a fly on the wall when that one goes to panel!

 

[705red]

Im 100% completely serious! I have the grievance form all ready complete and waiting to feli it on monday. I am filing under article 50 and 7.

Im also filing for the removal of the atm machine from the property, and ups has now posted signs asking if any ptimers are interested in working as seasonal helpers for $9.50 an hour. they expect the ptimers to take a pay cut in order for extra work?

Did i mention that we filed for a driver on comp last year that did not receive his turkey? He won that grievance!

 

[cachsux]

Vending machines fall under Maintenance of Standards?

 

[705red]

They do when ups sets the pricing! Rumor has it that we fell way short of our united way goal and ups plans on making up the difference through vending!

We thought it was the vending company that came in high on prices, but when we were told that ups sets the pricing i was given the green light to file!

Got to keep the agent on their toes and keep challenging them! Im sure i'll get fired for this but, what the hell!~