Future for Article 22.3 jobs?

[705red]

Here layoffs go by company seniority within the classification.

 

[Bad Gas!]

We have a new 22.3 bid route up for a airport shuttle/hub second half..3am til 12 pm..which is a great offer except...The driver that did the shuttle before was fulltime and retired.This driver would shuttle, then come back run air and a few splitts..Great retirement route...Well, UPS here has made it into a combo to reduce payscale and God forbid give us a retirement route..I believe it has a grievance on it but grivances are backed up here...

 

[gandydancer]

Here layoffs go by company seniority within the classification.

Surely not company seniority. Company seniority is only good for pay scales and benefits, not bidding or layoffs, as far as I am aware.

 

[gandydancer]

UPS layed me off from my 22.3 position 10-13-08. Twenty year driver who bid 22.3 two years ago(although it took them 8 months to put me on the job). UPS says i can bump a preloader and come back to work local sort if i want but i'm not guaranteed 8 hours anymore. Interested to see what happens and what my options are. Definately not going back to part time.

Had a driver here who kept his seniority (but took a haircut on pay) when he went 22.3, and went back driving, with full seniority to bid on a route he wanted and got. Single ft seniority list, I believe, under NorCal Rider. What contracts are you under?

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

We have a new 22.3 bid route up for a airport shuttle/hub second half..3am til 12 pm..which is a great offer except...The driver that did the shuttle before was fulltime and retired.This driver would shuttle, then come back run air and a few splitts..Great retirement route...Well, UPS here has made it into a combo to reduce payscale and God forbid give us a retirement route..I believe it has a grievance on it but grivances are backed up here...

If a job was full-time shuttle and they combined the new 22.3 with a part of that existing job, it is a very clear (but common) example of UPS doing whatever they want in spite of the clear contract language that says the job should remain the same as it was in past practice. This happens quite often and the union and its members need to be on their toes, because UPS just loves to make their own rules outside of the national agreement!

 

[Babagounj]

Maybe its time for the members to think about a class action suit against both the union & ups for not honoring our contract.

 

[brett636]

Anyone heard anything about combo 22.3's getting moved around? In my building I have heard and confirmed that some 22.3's have been moved to other buildings in other states. Since the company is only required to maintain the 20,000 jobs(and its debatable that they are) and not maintain them where they were created it seems they have the authority to do this. My question is does the affected employee go into layoff status or are they forced back into the part-time ranks?

Sounds like a shell game is being played with these jobs. When the shell(building) stops moving does the ball under the shell still exist?

 

[I'mTheMan]

Maybe its time for the members to think about a class action suit against both the union & ups for not honoring our contract.

I was thinking about that too. I'm sick and tired of how we were treated as part time and union were treated us like little kids so they don't seems to be in our favor sometimes when we can put up a fight and secure our 22.3 full time job that are needed to be protected. I know UPS are looking for ways to prevent lawsuit. They need to seriously talk to our union and give them what we want and our message is clear that we wanted our jobs back and let us do our jobs. My only question is why do we pay our dues for if the union has been very very slowly processing on this. They should've have their tough voice to give our message clear to the Labor Manager. I guess we don't have one now and that just really stinks as it today. A year or two, maybe 5 years from now UPS could give our jobs back but there is going to be a hell of back pay and restore full time benefits too.

 

[I'mTheMan]

Anyone heard anything about combo 22.3's getting moved around? In my building I have heard and confirmed that some 22.3's have been moved to other buildings in other states. Since the company is only required to maintain the 20,000 jobs(and its debatable that they are) and not maintain them where they were created it seems they have the authority to do this. My question is does the affected employee go into layoff status or are they forced back into the part-time ranks?

Sounds like a shell game is being played with these jobs. When the shell(building) stops moving does the ball under the shell still exist?

I don't see them being moved around yet. However, once peak is done, UPS will force all 22.3 to come to end and force them back to part time. Then will layoff some or a lot of feeder driver will go back to package car driver. The package car driver will not be returned to sort. However, they will be given pink slips as they go on full layoffs for good. The union is going to have a hell of a migraine on this if they don't do anything about it to prevent slipping in layoffs.

 

[gandydancer]

...I have heard and confirmed that some 22.3's have been moved to other buildings in other states. Since the company is only required to maintain the 20,000 jobs(and its debatable that they are) and not maintain them where they were created it seems they have the authority to do this...

Article 22, Section 3, last paragraph: "The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph."

The 20,000 number is not debatabale. And the idea that "THE full-time job" which is terminated is nonetheless "maintained" if another is created elsewhere doesn't pass the horselaugh test.

 

[sortaisle]

Article 22, Section 3, last paragraph: "The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph."

The 20,000 number is not debatabale. And the idea that "THE full-time job" which is terminated is nonetheless "maintained" if another is created elsewhere doesn't pass the horselaugh test.

It passes the horselaugh test over here. They've eliminated all of the jobs over here just about. Maybe 10 or 11 left out of around 50. Union has done nothing about it because they are being shipped to other areas according to the local.

 

[fethrs]

A few of us in my building were laid off from the second part of our 22.3 jobs. The union went to panel, and along with UPS, was able to reconfigure the jobs. We all got our full time status back and 8 hour gaurantee. None of us had to file and we all like our "new" jobs. No mess, no fuss. I don't think we will be laid off after the first of the year, though there are rumors of layoffs in my building too, but nobody knows anything for certain. I'm pleased with how the union and UPS worked together to resolve this, it took a while, but it got done and it wasn't a major fight.

 

[brett636]

Article 22, Section 3, last paragraph: "The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph."

The 20,000 number is not debatabale. And the idea that "THE full-time job" which is terminated is nonetheless "maintained" if another is created elsewhere doesn't pass the horselaugh test.

The 20,000 number is not debatable, but whether the company is maintaining that 20,000 is. I know that every year of the last contract once they were required to open the 2500 jobs per year my building saw 15-20 new combo jobs every year. Once the new contract was ratified no new combo jobs were open even though the prior contract had stated that the company was to create the final 2500. Perhaps they opened them in other buildings, although I have not read of that here. Its hard to say, but I just hope the union is staying on top of it.

 

[brett636]

A few of us in my building were laid off from the second part of our 22.3 jobs. The union went to panel, and along with UPS, was able to reconfigure the jobs. We all got our full time status back and 8 hour gaurantee. None of us had to file and we all like our "new" jobs. No mess, no fuss. I don't think we will be laid off after the first of the year, though there are rumors of layoffs in my building too, but nobody knows anything for certain. I'm pleased with how the union and UPS worked together to resolve this, it took a while, but it got done and it wasn't a major fight.

This is what I was curious to know. I do not have any serious reason for concern over my own particular job, but I wanted to know whether I would be forced back to part-time status if the unthinkable did occur. Thanks for your input.

 

[I'mTheMan]

It passes the horselaugh test over here. They've eliminated all of the jobs over here just about. Maybe 10 or 11 left out of around 50. Union has done nothing about it because they are being shipped to other areas according to the local.

Same here. the unions are not doing anything about it ever since. Plus not taking good care of us on transitions from full time to part time. So unless if we hears any more panel hearing regarding 22.3 not until end of January. We'll see what happens but it's a shame that letting UPS to win over big issue on those jobs that will fight to keep from maintained jobs for 22.3. Thats why a lot of guys like us are still pretty angered ever since the layoffs.

 

[Dark_Team_135]

Article 22, Section 3, last paragraph: "The number of full-time jobs created under Article 22, Section 3 of the 1997-2002 and 2002-2008 Agreements shall not be reduced. ...the Employer shall provide...a report detailing and identifying the full-time jobs which will need to be maintained pursuant to this paragraph."

The 20,000 number is not debatabale. And the idea that "THE full-time job" which is terminated is nonetheless "maintained" if another is created elsewhere doesn't pass the horselaugh test.

It may not, but I talked personally with hall, the IBT Package Division Director (and person that actually negotiated the language) and he said that the company could do it but he was working with them to keep it from happening. He said they shouldn't be doing it wholesale as I have heard they are doing in different parts of the country.

Ask your B.A. to give Ken a call and see what he says and report back to us. Maybe the answer will be different...I hope so.

 

[Bad Gas!]

If a job was full-time shuttle and they combined the new 22.3 with a part of that existing job, it is a very clear (but common) example of UPS doing whatever they want in spite of the clear contract language that says the job should remain the same as it was in past practice. This happens quite often and the union and its members need to be on their toes, because UPS just loves to make their own rules outside of the national agreement!

I agree with you Danny.The top bid driver is battling the DM as well as the business agent over this..This case should be backed by the union..

 

[gandydancer]

It may not, but I talked personally with hall, the IBT Package Division Director (and person that actually negotiated the language) and he said that the company could do it but he was working with them to keep it from happening. He said they shouldn't be doing it wholesale as I have heard they are doing in different parts of the country.

Ask your B.A. to give Ken a call and see what he says and report back to us. Maybe the answer will be different...I hope so.

We need to throw the other bums (TDU, or whoever) in, if what you say is right. The clear language that was negotiated says (a) that the number (20,000) must be kept AND (b) that the jobs on the list (which have a number, a name, and two location-specified and function-specific parts) must be maintained. It's one thing to negotiate a lousy contract in return for $billions poured into the Central States rathole. They sold it to a majority of the voters and the rest of us will just have to suck it up. But to just roll over on violations of the language that was voted on is beyond sellout. I'm not paying dues to these clowns so they can "work with" the company on how to screw me over. If the company violates the contract and the union won't bust its chops, what good is it?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

We need to throw the other bums (TDU, or whoever) in, if what you say is right. The clear language that was negotiated says (a) that the number (20,000) must be kept AND (b) that the jobs on the list (which have a number, a name, and two location-specified and function-specific parts) must be maintained. It's one thing to negotiate a lousy contract in return for poured into the Central States rathole. They sold it to a majority of the voters and the rest of us will just have to suck it up. But to just roll over on violations of the language that was voted on is beyond sellout. I'm not paying dues to these clowns so they can "work with" the company on how to screw me over. If the company violates the contract and the union won't bust its chops, what good is it?

I agree, but the stewards and some union guys around here are saying "work with them, the Economy sucks"...which is utter BS...

Imagine breaking your lease and telling your landlord "well, work with me here, you cannot penalize me the 75$ surcharge, the Economy sucks!"

It's unfortunate that alot of us (including myself) will probably be laid off and lose our jobs. It's especialy bad for those with nothing to fall back on to survive.

 

[MR_Vengeance]

I agree, but the stewards and some union guys around here are saying "work with them, the Economy sucks"...which is utter BS...

"Come on Jimbo blow, work with me! reduce my union dues, please.......the economy sucks. I could use the extra $90 buck for food or gas"