Gas Prices

moreluck

golden ticket member
Its our govement and the over zealous EPA which has gotten way to powerful thanks to the Obama adminstration.

We're so worried about "the air", yet China (I'm told) has clouds of pollution and they do nothing. Don't we share the air with all mankind? Can't we just wait 'til everyone else catches up?

If L.A. used to be horribly junky air and it was like 80% pollution.....now it's 10% ....isn't that a long way we've come?
You may never get rid of the the 10% no matter how many regulations you enact and $$$ you spend. (the numbers were made up for demo purpose)
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Its our govement and the over zealous EPA which has gotten way to powerful thanks to the Obama adminstration.
That doesn't really make much sense. Volkswagon seems to be able to handle it. Why can they do it and Ford, Chevy, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Dodge and others choose not to?
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
That doesn't really make much sense. Volkswagon seems to be able to handle it. Why can they do it and Ford, Chevy, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Dodge and others choose not to?

Could the hold up on importation of more diesels or even increasing the domestic consumer fleet of diesel vehicles be about the capacity of the diesel fuel distribution network as it does anything else? Don't know the answer just been asking the why question and this was one thought that came to mind.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Could the hold up on importation of more diesels or even increasing the domestic consumer fleet of diesel vehicles be about the capacity of the diesel fuel distribution network as it does anything else? Don't know the answer just been asking the why question and this was one thought that came to mind.
Possible, but I doubt it. Would be easier to increase diesel production than electric grid for auto recharge. I don't know the answer either. I think it is probably because initial cost of the diesel plus the fuel savings (even with diesel being more expensive), most people won't see the recoup'ed savings for 5 to 7 years. So 40 mpg with gasoline is easier to live with for the average length of ownership than diesel. And yes, car companies are very, very keen on consumer studies.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Its our govement and the over zealous EPA which has gotten way to powerful thanks to the Obama adminstration.

The requirement that diesel vehicles be equipped with expensive and complicated DPF's (Diesel Particulate Filters)--which renders them incompatible with biodiesel---came into effect in 2007, when Bush was President.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
When all new cars have to get at least 55 miles to the gallon........how much do you think those cars are going to cost you? Thanks Obama
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
When all new cars have to get at least 55 miles to the gallon........how much do you think those cars are going to cost you? Thanks Obama

I prefer to phrase the question in terms of how many Marines are going to have to die so that I can drive a gas hog SUV?

I just paid $24K for a new Prius that is getting a measured 50MPG at the pump. It has AC, cruise control, Bluetooth with an awesome stereo, keyless entry/ignition, power windows and mirrors, and enough airbags to turn the inside into a giant marshmallow if I ever get in a wreck. It has plenty of head and leg room for 4 adults to sit comfortably. Unlike the "economy" cars of years back that got great mileage at the expense of comfort, safety and performance, my Prius is a genuinely nice car to drive. I dont feel like I am making any sacrifices at all to get great mileage.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
That doesn't really make much sense. Volkswagon seems to be able to handle it. Why can they do it and Ford, Chevy, Mazda, Toyota, Honda, Dodge and others choose not to?

American emission regulations are heavily biased against diesels. A huge percentage of the cost difference of diesel cars vs gasoline is in the emissions components. VW sells their diesel cars to VW enthusiasts in a niche market for a premium price (about $10K more than a comparably equipped model with a gas engine. Mazda, Toyota and Honda all sell small diesel cars overseas, but they just dont want to jump thru all the hoops to try and sell them here.

If we wanted to really save fuel in this country, we would relax the emissions standards on small diesel cars as long as they got an EPA-measured average of, say, 55 or 60 MPG. For whatever reason we seem to overlook the simple fact that the amount of pollution a car emits is a function of how much fuel that car burns to travel a given distance. If we did away with the requirement for DPF's on any car that got 60MPG or better, not only would we save fuel but we would also boost our economy by creating a market for domestically produced biodiesel.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
Even before the newest emission standards diesel engines were far more expensive to design and build. Maybe other companies could build their owwn niche marrkets. But it isn't like there's a shortage of fuel. Just market forces.
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
Bio-Diesel has good and bad points. Biodiesel: The Good and the Bad - AutoObserver - I personally don't like the fact that land used for food production or reforestation would be changed over to bio-diesel production.

Right now Bio diesel produces about a half day of fuel consumption in America. In the future it might go up to 1.2 days worth of production. It is not a big player and won't be...

I agree with you Sober that Americans should be given a choice. The regulations should be relaxed and the marketplace will dictate the success of the vehicles.
 

menotyou

bella amicizia
When gas at the pump prices were $4.50 a gallon under Bush, the price a barrel was something like $150. It's under $98 a barrel, yet gas at the pump is $4.20. Wth!?!?!??

(I'm not blaming Bush or Obama, btw. Just pointing out the raping of America)
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
[h=1]EPA Mandates Motorists Buy At Least 4 Gallons of Gas at Ethanol-15 Pumps[/h]
(CNSNews.com) – The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has mandated that all consumers in the United States must purchase at least 4 gallons of gasoline when they go to the gas station, if they are getting fuel from a pump that also offers a new E15 ethanol-gasoline blend.
The Obama administration wants consumers to use more of the E15 fuel – a blend that contains 15 percent ethanol – but the problem is that many gas stations use blender pumps, which offer several types of fuel and, after pumping, there always is a residual amount of fuel in the hose. E15 fuel can potentially damage engines made prior to 2000 and it cannot be used in motorcycles, ATVs, and many other engines, such as lawn mowers and boat engines.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Bio-Diesel has good and bad points. Biodiesel: The Good and the Bad - AutoObserver - I personally don't like the fact that land used for food production or reforestation would be changed over to bio-diesel production.

Right now Bio diesel produces about a half day of fuel consumption in America. In the future it might go up to 1.2 days worth of production. It is not a big player and won't be...

I agree with you Sober that Americans should be given a choice. The regulations should be relaxed and the marketplace will dictate the success of the vehicles.

It wont be a "big player" as long as it has to compete with petroleum-sourced diesel that is being sold for less than its true cost.

If Americans were forced to pay the true cost for fossil fuels at the pump...which would include a tax to offset the entire cost of the war in Iraq and our continuing military presence in the Persian Gulf...gas would be $7 or $8 a gallon instead of only $4.

Biodiesel does not have to compete with food crops for farmland. It can be produced using crops such as rapeseed or hemp that require very little water or pesticides and that can grow on land that is otherwise unsuitable for food agriculture. Even more promising is the the use of algae to make biodiesel, which could be grown in the deserts using brackish saltwater or even untreated sewage for irrigation.

Synthetic diesel can also be made from coal...a resource that the US has in abundance. The technology for converting coal into diesel fuel is not new, the Germans did it during WWII to fuel their war effort when the Russians overran the oil fields in Romania that were Germanys only source of crude oil.

These technologies...biodiesel and diesel synthesized from coal...arent cheap and right now they cant compete with crude imported oil. They could compete if (A) there were enough vehicles in the USA that were compatible with these fuels and (B) if the full costs of the war in Iraq, our military presence in the Persian Gulf and the enviormental cleanup from disasters such as the Gulf of Mexico and the Exxon Valdez were all being paid for at the pump instead of being passed down to our great grandchildren in the form of debt.

Imagine how different things would be if we here in America could buy hyper-efficient diesel hybrid cars that got 60 or 70MPG on biodiesel made by American farmers or synthetic fuel made from coal dug by American miners. Imagine not having to pay billions of dollars per year to Saudi oil shieks and corrupt Persian Gulf dictatorships for their oil. Imagine not having to meddle in the political affairs of other nations. Imagine not having to send our kids off to die in wars for cheap oil.

We made the atomic bomb in 1945 without the benefit of any modern technology or computers. We put a man on the moon in 1969. If we can do those things, we can become energy-indepentent also.
 

moreluck

golden ticket member
EPA Mandates Motorists Buy At Least 4 Gallons of Gas at Ethanol-15 Pumps


(CNSNews.com) – The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has mandated that all consumers in the United States must purchase at least 4 gallons of gasoline when they go to the gas station, if they are getting fuel from a pump that also offers a new E15 ethanol-gasoline blend.
The Obama administration wants consumers to use more of the E15 fuel – a blend that contains 15 percent ethanol – but the problem is that many gas stations use blender pumps, which offer several types of fuel and, after pumping, there always is a residual amount of fuel in the hose. E15 fuel can potentially damage engines made prior to 2000 and it cannot be used in motorcycles, ATVs, and many other engines, such as lawn mowers and boat engines.
Is he going to "tax" us if we don't ?
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
I heard today that the Saudis are producing more oil to keep the cost down so that it does not hurt BOs chances of re-election. They believe that he is more likely to keep constraints on production of US energy resources which benefits them... Makes sense to me!
 
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