Gas Prices

[wkmac]

Wow. Imagine this. What would have happened if you mortgage were tied to the stock market. When the market tanked, you paid less in interest AND principal because it was worth less. When the market goes up, you pay significantly more. Does it make any sense to think that oil prices would stay low as the market makes a steady rise? Would you really think something was amiss if you mortgage went up as your retirement account did also? Like it or not, rising fuel prices are a sign of a strengthening economy.

Our gas prices are falling so I guess the economy is not doing well in my area.

Actually More is paying more (no pun) because of a severe shortage of summer blend gasoline caused by a lost of refining capacity. Your point can still be true in regards to signs of inflation but in this case there is another cause.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Ahh, the talking points of the right wing spin machine. I love to hear them repeated.

Listen Slick, despite the windbaggery, lets deal with reality. In California, OIL production has been at all time levels, and consumption, because of hybrids and other alternative fuels has decreased year over year here. Stockpiles of oil and fuel drive prices downward and the refiners and oil companies know that decreasing prices are not good for profits.

Instead of holding on to oil and fuel in california for the future and driving prices down, they then EXPORT the excess oil and fuel to mexico and take inventory levels BELOW demand here in the state and that drives prices UP!

For over a year now, California refiners have been selling oil to mexico and lowering inventory levels to keep prices high. The refiners continue to say if they kept oil in the state instead of selling it to mexico, it would cost american jobs.

Its the biggest pile of crap ever sold to us as citizens.

This is just another example of big corporations exploiting the free market by creating their own calamities and driving prices higher.

Drilling for more oil or building more refineries will not solve this problem. Either is the last thing california refiners want to do as long as demand is decreasing.


TOS

Talk about a spin doctor. Do you actually read the posts you quote? Do you know how to read? I happen to understand how the economy works and I know what the Treasury Dept. is doing to pay for the deficit spending that your slick friends continue to advocate. "INVEST IN AMERICA". Typical liberal spin on SPEND SPEND SPEND.

Just like MFE - you just punch keys on a keyboard to spin the posts without ever reading them.

Let me S-I-M-P-L-I-friend-Y the post for you. DEFICIT SPENDING = PRINTING MONEY = INFLATION = COST OF OIL GOING UP - BECAUSE DOLLAR ($$$$) VALUE GOES DOWN.

This has absolutely nothing to do with anything that SPEWED from your keyboard !


Here is the post I wrote above:

The hardliners and closet socialists that post on this website, want you to believe that "Corporate America" is what is wrong with this country. They (meaning the posters and fringe left) are a huge threat to our way of life.

Obama's spending and borrowing got us into this mess. He is printing money like there is no tomorrow to pay for the $16 trillion in debt. Devalued $$$ means that prices rise. This is what inflation is all about. It hits transportation first and everything follows. All goods and services rely on transportation costs.

Oil companies are bad and sinister. Corporations are bad, bad, bad. Capitalism is bad, bad, bad...​

​

 

[bbsam]

Inflation is not the cause of the price of oil going up. If it were, all prices would be going up at that rate. You say that you understand how economies work and the post this? The price of oil is where it is because that is what oil companies have determined they can get for their product without killing the demand. That's why "drill baby drill" is such a ridiculous solution to energy. There is no shortage and none on the horizon.

 

[MenInBrown]

Wow. Imagine this. What would have happened if you mortgage were tied to the stock market. When the market tanked, you paid less in interest AND principal because it was worth less. When the market goes up, you pay significantly more. Does it make any sense to think that oil prices would stay low as the market makes a steady rise? Would you really think something was amiss if you mortgage went up as your retirement account did also? Like it or not, rising fuel prices are a sign of a strengthening economy.

look at our GDP growth...that is how you measure an economies stengthening. Beings 2011 was slower than 2010, and 2012 is slower than 2011, actually shows you there is no recovery right now. We are going in the wrong direction. Our GDP continues to go down.

 

[bbsam]

GDP shows only domestic variables. Oil is a world market. Guess who the largest exporter in the world is?

 

[MenInBrown]

GDP shows only domestic variables. Oil is a world market. Guess who the largest exporter in the world is?

ok. so oil shows you our economy is getting stronger? i don't follow u. how does oil dictate to you that the economy is getting stronger, but GDP doesnt?

 

[UPS Lifer]

Inflation is not the cause of the price of oil going up. If it were, all prices would be going up at that rate. You say that you understand how economies work and the post this? The price of oil is where it is because that is what oil companies have determined they can get for their product without killing the demand. That's why "drill baby drill" is such a ridiculous solution to energy. There is no shortage and none on the horizon.

You and I differ philosophically on Capitalism so we will never agree. Oil companies are the easiest target for advocates of BIG GOVERNMENT, hardline union folks and socialists to attack. They make billions of dollars. We use trillions of gallons of fuel! It appears to the average American that the oil companies are raping hard working Americans.


I am trying to simplify the discussion because those wonks who study economics know that there are X NUMBER of factors involved with price increases along with psychological factors that are really tough to pin down.
Over the long haul - RULE OF THUMB - A STRONG DOLLAR MEANS LOWER PRICES AND MOVES WORLD MARKETS (most importantly oil) TO A UNITED STATES COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE.

This is the main factor why the prices have gone up from below $2 a gallon when BO took office. If we could miraculously reduce the deficit and pull in $$$ to reduce the currency in circulation, then the $ would be so strong that it would diminish all other currencies in relation. OIL IS A WORLD CURRENCY in some regard and because it is traded using UNITED STATES CURRENCY, we are the biggest factor in the pricing.

Oil would drop at a rate in direct correlation to the strength of the dollar. Transportation costs affect everything else. Let's not forget that companies and governments speculate on oil and buy contracts at a certain rate and these are additional factors that can affect prices - beside many other factors.


ON THE FLIP SIDE

Continue with trickle down government policies and the dollar will continue to weaken causing more inflation and a weaken US world economy which will affect the security of our country. It is just a matter of time.

A strong dollar means a strong and secure America.

The only reason we are still competitive right now is because Europe is imploding.

 

[MenInBrown]

You and I differ philosophically on Capitalism so we will never agree. Oil companies are the easiest target for advocates of BIG GOVERNMENT, hardline union folks and socialists to attack. They make billions of dollars. We use trillions of gallons of fuel! It appears to the average American that the oil companies are raping hard working Americans.


I am trying to simplify the discussion because those wonks who study economics know that there are X NUMBER of factors involved with price increases along with psychological factors that are really tough to pin down.
Over the long haul - RULE OF THUMB - A STRONG DOLLAR MEANS LOWER PRICES AND MOVES WORLD MARKETS (most importantly oil) TO A UNITED STATES COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE.

This is the main factor why the prices have gone up from below $2 a gallon when BO took office. If we could miraculously reduce the deficit and pull in $$$ to reduce the currency in circulation, then the $ would be so strong that it would diminish all other currencies in relation. OIL IS A WORLD CURRENCY in some regard and because it is traded using UNITED STATES CURRENCY, we are the biggest factor in the pricing.

Oil would drop at a rate in direct correlation to the strength of the dollar. Transportation costs affect everything else. Let's not forget that companies and governments speculate on oil and buy contracts at a certain rate and these are additional factors that can affect prices - beside many other factors.


ON THE FLIP SIDE

Continue with trickle down government policies and the dollar will continue to weaken causing more inflation and a weaken US world economy which will affect the security of our country. It is just a matter of time.

A strong dollar means a strong and secure America.

The only reason we are still competitive right now is because Europe is imploding.

Its not going to stop...Obama said out of his own mouth that he wanted to see high energy cost...That is his way of trying to get his green agenda across.

 

[soberups]

In my opinion, I say its time for the goverment to take over the refining industry and take the oil companies out of the mix. The continued ripoff of the american consumer has to come to an end one way or the other.

This isnt a case of supply vs demand. Its a case of deliberately limiting supply and price gouging.

Peace

TOS

No...what the government needs to do is to roll back the EPA restrictions that effectively force consumers of small cars to use only one type of fuel...gasoline...over which Big Oil has an effective monopoly.

Relaxing the emissions requirements on any vehicle with an EPA rating of, say, 50MPG would allow for the importation and domestic manufacture of the compact, hyper-efficient turbodiesel cars that are widely available in Europe and that are capable of using locally produced biodiesel.

Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline engines at converting energy into forward motion. Diesel engines last longer. Diesel engines can also run on biodiesel made from waste cooking oil, locally produced crops such as rapeseed or hemp. Clean diesel fuel can also be refined from a resource that the USA has a plentiful supply of...COAL.

Imagine being able to buy a car like the VW Lupo that gets up to 80 MPG. Imagine being able to buy fuel for that car from a LOCAL farmer or LOCAL refiner of waste cooking oil or a LOCAL coal gasification factory.

We can only imagine these things because of EPA restrictions that allows you to buy a Hummer that gets 7MPG on gasoline sourced from Middle East oil, while forbidding you from buying a Lupo that gets 80MPG on biodiesel sourced from your local farmer.

The technology exists for these things to be the reality. All that stands in the way is an EPA that is in the back pocket of an oil indistry that wants to maintain a government-controlled monopoly on the sale of automotive fuel.

Government control of refineries is not the answer. The answer is to end government subsidies and protection of the oil industry, and to give consumers free choice as to what types of cars they wish to drive and what types of fuels they wish to use.

 

[bbsam]

Here we go with the diesel thing again. Why? Every major car company could do what VW does. So what if it is expensive? They choose not to because it's cheaper to get 38mpg from gasoline technology. What's wrong with that? And I think I read somewhere that it takes somewhat more crude oil to produce a gallon of diesel fuel than gasoline so some of the efficiency one first sees isn't even there. Besides, diesel engines have ALWAYS been more expensive to design and build. It's only a matter of time before they will be able to meet standards without DEF. And no, I am not against diesel engines, but I am impressed with what the gasoline engine has become in terms of power, efficiency and longevity.

 

[wkmac]

Inflation is not the cause of the price of oil going up. If it were, all prices would be going up at that rate. You say that you understand how economies work and the post this? The price of oil is where it is because that is what oil companies have determined they can get for their product without killing the demand. That's why "drill baby drill" is such a ridiculous solution to energy. There is no shortage and none on the horizon.

You need to re-read your post to which I responded and then consider my point again because the conclusion you've reached is all wrong.

 

[roadrunner2012]

The hardliners and closet socialists that post on this website, want you to believe that "Corporate America" is what is wrong with this country. They (meaning the posters and fringe left) are a huge threat to our way of life.

Obama's spending and borrowing got us into this mess. He is printing money like there is no tomorrow to pay for the $16 trillion in debt. Devalued $$$ means that prices rise. This is what inflation is all about. It hits transportation first and everything follows. All goods and services rely on transportation costs.

Oil companies are bad and sinister. Corporations are bad, bad, bad. Capitalism is bad, bad, bad...

Why is the dollar stronger now than it was after Bush got through with it?

BTW a weaker currency is a tool used to pull a country out of a recession.

 

[MenInBrown]

Why is the dollar stronger now than it was after Bush got through with it?

BTW a weaker currency is a tool used to pull a country out of a recession.

History can show you that you cant spend your way out of a recession. You can print money all day long, but what does that solve. Inflation will kick in. You know who inflation screws...THE POOR! You think a rich man worries about spending $8 for a gallon of milk or $6 for a loaf of bread?

 

[MenInBrown]

Why is the dollar stronger now than it was after Bush got through with it?

BTW a weaker currency is a tool used to pull a country out of a recession.

[h=2]The Artificially-Strong U.S. Dollar is Hurting Our Economy[/h]May 25, 2012 John Olen

A strong U.S. dollar is generally seen as a good thing for the economy, but there are exceptions. The U.S. dollar may look strong right now, but the underlying fundamentals of our economy indicate that it should not be. We are deeply in debt, running a huge balance of trade deficit and are seeing anemic economic growth. These are not the markers of a country that should have a strong currency. Most experts agree that an artificially strong U.S. dollar is actually worse than a weak dollar, exacerbating our already dire economic situation.
A naturally strong U.S. dollar would be a sign of economic health, something which the United States does not have at this time. As it stands, the dollar is only relatively strong because other currencies such as the Euro are unstable. This is a temporary situation, and once it is resolved the underlying fundamentals of the U.S. economy will bring the dollar back down, and the inflationary pressures created by government actions such as quantitative easing will be felt once again. John Williams’ Shadow Government Statistics report echoes this idea.

 

[soberups]

Here we go with the diesel thing again. Why? Every major car company could do what VW does. So what if it is expensive? They choose not to because it's cheaper to get 38mpg from gasoline technology. What's wrong with that? And I think I read somewhere that it takes somewhat more crude oil to produce a gallon of diesel fuel than gasoline so some of the efficiency one first sees isn't even there. Besides, diesel engines have ALWAYS been more expensive to design and build. It's only a matter of time before they will be able to meet standards without DEF. And no, I am not against diesel engines, but I am impressed with what the gasoline engine has become in terms of power, efficiency and longevity.

Most of the Asian manufacturers also produce diesel cars...but those cars are only available in Europe and Japan. The problem is not the cost of the engines, the problem is the cost of the emissions components that are required to allow such cars to pass unreasonably stringent EPA requirements. So far, only Mercedes Benz and VW/Audi have been willing to jump thru all the necessary (and expensive) hoops, which now involve ultra high-pressure direct injection, urea tanks, Diesel Particulate filters, and computerized post-ignition regen cycles to burn the soot off of those filters. I dont have a problem with requiring such features on large trucks that consume huge amounts of fuel, but it is illogical to effectively eliminate diesel engines from the compact, affordable, hyper-efficient market segment. If a significant portion of the American small-car market was able to use diesel fuel as opposed to gasoline, then those cars would be able to use renewable and domestically-produced biodiesel as opposed to gasoline sourced from imported oil. Every dollar spent on domestically produced renewable fuel is a dollar that stays in our economy instead of being sent overseas.

 

[soberups]

A bit of math that many people seem to overlook;

If your car gets 40MPG and gas is $4 a gallon, your cost to operate it is the same as having a car that gets 10MPG and paying $1 a gallon...which is pretty much where we were at in the 1990's.

Anybody with an ounce of common sense who has been paying any sort of attention to world events for the last, say, 40 years (or at the very least since 9-11 and the war in Iraq) should not be at all surprised about the high cost of fuel.

If you made a lifestyle choice to buy an inefficient full sized SUV or performance car for daily transportation in spite of these world events, I find it hard to have much sympathy for you in regards to the expense you now incur in fueling said vehicle....particularly in light of the fact that there are any number of comfortable, roomy and luxurious vehicles on the market that can attain 40MPG or greater.

I currently drive a Prius that gets 50MPG. Before that, I had a VW Jetta TDI turbodiesel that got 40+MPG on biodiesel. I also own a full-sized 3/4 ton 4x4 gas hog pickup that I use when I really need it,but that stays parked when I dont. I drive it less than 1000 miles per year, and at that rate it will continue to be a reliable and useful vehicle for decades to come with only basic maintainence. On the rare occasions when I do drive it, I accept the cost of fueling it as part of life. As far as I am concerned, expensive fuel is a good thing because the less we use now the more will be left for our children and great-grandchildren.

 

[MenInBrown]

A bit of math that many people seem to overlook;

If your car gets 40MPG and gas is $4 a gallon, your cost to operate it is the same as having a car that gets 10MPG and paying $1 a gallon...which is pretty much where we were at in the 1990's.

Anybody with an ounce of common sense who has been paying any sort of attention to world events for the last, say, 40 years (or at the very least since 9-11 and the war in Iraq) should not be at all surprised about the high cost of fuel.

If you made a lifestyle choice to buy an inefficient full sized SUV or performance car for daily transportation in spite of these world events, I find it hard to have much sympathy for you in regards to the expense you now incur in fueling said vehicle....particularly in light of the fact that there are any number of comfortable, roomy and luxurious vehicles on the market that can attain 40MPG or greater.

I currently drive a Prius that gets 50MPG. Before that, I had a VW Jetta TDI turbodiesel that got 40+MPG on biodiesel. I also own a full-sized 3/4 ton 4x4 gas hog pickup that I use when I really need it,but that stays parked when I dont. I drive it less than 1000 miles per year, and at that rate it will continue to be a reliable and useful vehicle for decades to come with only basic maintainence. On the rare occasions when I do drive it, I accept the cost of fueling it as part of life. As far as I am concerned, expensive fuel is a good thing because the less we use now the more will be left for our children and great-grandchildren.

I think gas seems expensive when people have to change the way they just get to work because they cant afford it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Sober, fossil fuels will be something that our great-grandchildren will read about on their iPads in history class.

 

[soberups]

I think gas seems expensive when people have to change the way they just get to work because they cant afford it.

Again, it all boils down to a choice of lifestyle. People for the most part have a choice as to where they live in relation to their workplace. People have a choice as to where they go to shop and recreate, and people have a choice as to the fuel-efficiency of the vehicle they drive on a daily basis.

There are many of my coworkers who made a choice to live 30 or 40 miles or more from where we report to work each day, and they made an additional choice to make that daily commute in a brand new full sized truck or SUV that they supposedly "need" to pull their fancy boat or RV or whatever. I tend to turn a deaf ear when I hear them whining about spending $200 a week on gas when the most basic common sense would seem to dictate that fuel prices will inevitably continue to rise.

 

[soberups]

Sober, fossil fuels will be something that our great-grandchildren will read about on their iPads in history class.

True enough.

I just hope we leave them with a world worth living in. At the rate at which we continue to strip-mine the planet for cheap and dirty energy, it is an open question whether we will or not.