Ground to absorb Express

[FedGT]

Because we struggle with 28 $ an hour employees. What happens when dra builds 3 extra p 1 rts. Because you have 5-6 days to deliver ground and you have hrs to deliver express.

Here is the flat out truth to everyone that quotes these monetary hourly figures. You may make $28 an hour, UPS may make $34 an hour, it is good that you can make that money in this type of industry. You think that money brings a much different class of employee, but it does not. You see that you make $28 an hour and no one would do it for $12, $14, $18.......you have that assumption because that is what you are told you can make. I had employees that were running 120-150 stops that spanned multiple express and UPS areas they delivered ridiculous OS packages daily out of completely bulked out 1200s, many that were starting out did it for $13 an hour. They give us more work we put on another truck and add an employee so that most customers are getting what they ordered in the 1-3 days Ground wants and we get everything delivered everyday it shows up.
My guys made a lot less some liked there jobs way more than most on this site making a lot more others didn't. But when I can hire 1.5-2 employees at the same cost as 1 of yours and get the job done with a lot bigger packages, why is that not feasible?
Main point is the perception of pay for performance is no where close to as big of a reality when all you know is doing the job at 25-50% less and not told you will make $28 an hour.
I am not saying that this is right or fair for employees because it is not, the compensation to the contractor is not fair but we have to do what we can to make a sustainable business. Break down the avg wage of non CDL delivery drivers it is easy to see UPS and Express (to an extent) is the exception to the wages not the standard.

 

[Oldfart]

Judging by your comments it would appear that you are an employee who has nothing more at stake than his lunch money not a contractor. If so you know nothing about the challenges one of them faces. As a contractor you have thousands of dollars in the game much of it borrowed, money who's fate is decided entirely by the decisions someone else makes and are under constant pressure to provide even greater value for the company with much of that additional value insufficiently compensated or not compensated at all. If for no other reason and their are plenty of others contractors must remain vigilant and keenly observant regarding changes and differing operating terms that could be looming on the horizon. While the chances are remote they also have to be mindful of the huge potential impact that a global military or banking crisis might have on an industry as vital as the shipping business including the need to petition for emergency regulatory relief in response to that crisis.

Do you actually believe HALF of this crap you post? I have read some total BS in my life but I have to hand it to YOU, they can't compare to you. You THINK you know everything about business and post your dribble, but when it comes down to it, you are no smarter than the next guy. What a dip snit, want-a-be business guru.

 

[bbsam]

Do you actually believe HALF of this crap you post? I have read some total BS in my life but I have to hand it to YOU, they can't compare to you. You THINK you know everything about business and post your dribble, but when it comes down to it, you are no smarter than the next guy. What a dip snit, want-a-be business guru.

Post dribble.

 

[It will be fine]

Do you actually believe HALF of this crap you post? I have read some total BS in my life but I have to hand it to YOU, they can't compare to you. You THINK you know everything about business and post your dribble, but when it comes down to it, you are no smarter than the next guy. What a dip snit, want-a-be business guru.

Very helpful old fart. Thanks for adding to the discussion with your paragraph of unprovoked personal attacks.

 

[bacha29]

Do you actually believe HALF of this crap you post? I have read some total BS in my life but I have to hand it to YOU, they can't compare to you. You THINK you know everything about business and post your dribble, but when it comes down to it, you are no smarter than the next guy. What a dip snit, want-a-be business guru.

Your personal attacks are not only a clear testament to your blatant "southern style" ignorance but also serve to prove conclusively your complete inability to offer anything insightful . Rapidly changing operations over at Ground requires every contractor to be prepared for more of it going forward and if past history is any indication those changes could dramatic game changing and fast moving . Given that you have by your own admission done the same route the same way every day for decades you have nothing aside from personal attacks to offer when dealing with a business climate whereby change is the ONLY constant.

 

[Gone fishin]

Here is the flat out truth to everyone that quotes these monetary hourly figures. You may make $28 an hour, UPS may make $34 an hour, it is good that you can make that money in this type of industry. You think that money brings a much different class of employee, but it does not. You see that you make $28 an hour and no one would do it for $12, $14, $18.......you have that assumption because that is what you are told you can make. I had employees that were running 120-150 stops that spanned multiple express and UPS areas they delivered ridiculous OS packages daily out of completely bulked out 1200s, many that were starting out did it for $13 an hour. They give us more work we put on another truck and add an employee so that most customers are getting what they ordered in the 1-3 days Ground wants and we get everything delivered everyday it shows up.
My guys made a lot less some liked there jobs way more than most on this site making a lot more others didn't. But when I can hire 1.5-2 employees at the same cost as 1 of yours and get the job done with a lot bigger packages, why is that not feasible?
Main point is the perception of pay for performance is no where close to as big of a reality when all you know is doing the job at 25-50% less and not told you will make $28 an hour.
I am not saying that this is right or fair for employees because it is not, the compensation to the contractor is not fair but we have to do what we can to make a sustainable business. Break down the avg wage of non CDL delivery drivers it is easy to see UPS and Express (to an extent) is the exception to the wages not the standard.

I do feel money brings a whole different class. If I'm a real good worker and I'm not where I think I should be money wise. I'm looking for a better job,and there out there. I want benefits,vacations,sick days ,raises , 401k and match a %. Why would I work my butt off for the contractor and not get these things other companies offer

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Contractors have proven that the work can be done without all of those things.

 

[59 Dano]

If you find them so disdainful then why do you continue to read them?Obviously it's not for entertainment purposes. You read them because you find them interesting and

...very entertaining.

because Ground's impressive returns have and will continue to be the profit driver that will underwrite X's growth in the years to come. And if you were to spend a single day in the boots of a contractor whether big or small you would understand why he or she is always on the lookout for more of the unpleasant little surprises X likes to pop on them. Why? Because they have money some times large sums of money at risk which requires constant vigilance in order to protect it.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that a contractor model for air ops is a horrible idea, but thanks.

 

[bacha29]

I do feel money brings a whole different class. If I'm a real good worker and I'm not where I think I should be money wise. I'm looking for a better job,and there out there. I want benefits,vacations,sick days ,raises , 401k and match a %. Why would I work my butt off for the contractor and not get these things other companies offer

The better compensated jobs may be out there but will they want you? Furthermore GT hit on an excellent point Ground gets a hell of a lot done for hell of a lot less money. That fact has and will continue to weigh heavily on the choices shippers make. They will ask themselves...... why should I pay shipping rates based on your $28 an hour labor charge when Ground over here can get to where it needs to go in an acceptable time frame at rates based on $13 an hour labor charge. Some of you Xpress guys may not realize that your most formidable competitor may lie within your own company.

 

[59 Dano]

Why do you think that?

They used to say because of "control". But if you saw the amount of control they can "legally"(?) exercise over contractors, you might well reconsider.

Ground would have its pants sued off if it controlled contractors the way DHL and ABX did. Not that it mattered in the end.

 

[Gone fishin]

The better compensated jobs may be out there but will they want you? Furthermore GT hit on an excellent point Ground gets a hell of a lot done for hell of a lot less money. That fact has and will continue to weigh heavily on the choices shippers make. They will ask themselves...... why should I pay shipping rates based on your $28 an hour labor charge when Ground over here can get to where it needs to go in an acceptable time frame at rates based on $13 an hour labor charge. Some of you Xpress guys may not realize that your most formidable competitor may lie within your own company.

I guess I just think more of myself than you think of yourself. Yes. They would want me.

 

[FedGT]

I do feel money brings a whole different class. If I'm a real good worker and I'm not where I think I should be money wise. I'm looking for a better job,and there out there. I want benefits,vacations,sick days ,raises , 401k and match a %. Why would I work my butt off for the contractor and not get these things other companies offer

So you think you are paid adequately/happy and wouldn't take another job if it were presented?
If the answer is no (obviously would be yes), what's the difference? You are just a more highly paid version that brings the same thing to the table as my guys did. That is your exact logic.

I think I have seen virtually every express guy on this site complaining about their job, benefits, management, etc. and almost all can't wait to get the hell out.

 

[59 Dano]

The better compensated jobs may be out there but will they want you? Furthermore GT hit on an excellent point Ground gets a hell of a lot done for hell of a lot less money. That fact has and will continue to weigh heavily on the choices shippers make. They will ask themselves...... why should I pay shipping rates based on your $28 an hour labor charge when Ground over here can get to where it needs to go in an acceptable time frame at rates based on $13 an hour labor charge. Some of you Xpress guys may not realize that your most formidable competitor may lie within your own company.

I'd say you get what you pay for, for the most part.

 

[It will be fine]

...very entertaining.



I'm not sure what that has to do with the fact that a contractor model for air ops is a horrible idea, but thanks.

I don't think anyone is arguing the entire express operation would be run by contractors. The argument is Ground could deliver most of the freight. The past several decades have shown a contractor model is great for delivering boxes.

 

[It will be fine]

I do feel money brings a whole different class. If I'm a real good worker and I'm not where I think I should be money wise. I'm looking for a better job,and there out there. I want benefits,vacations,sick days ,raises , 401k and match a %. Why would I work my butt off for the contractor and not get these things other companies offer

From the sound of things here the pay disparity is not much if anything for entry level drivers. Most of my drivers don't need benefits, they get them through their wives. They get everything else you mentioned except 401k, and they get to work in a much better environment. Less stress and better management.

 

[Gone fishin]

So you think you are paid adequately/happy and wouldn't take another job if it were presented?
If the answer is no (obviously would be yes), what's the difference? You are just a more highly paid version that brings the same thing to the table as my guys did. That is your exact logic.

I think I have seen virtually every express guy on this site complaining about their job, benefits, management, etc. and almost all can't wait to get the hell out.

I like what I do and I'm in a place in my life where this job is enough. My wife is the bread winner by far. I'm not complaining.
My point is if your 21 and have a shot at topping out and making 55 to 60 grand with decent benefits at express. You have a better chance of getting and keeping a good worker than ground does.

No ?

 

[bacha29]

I don't think anyone is arguing the entire express operation would be run by contractors. The argument is Ground could deliver most of the freight. The past several decades have shown a contractor model is great for delivering boxes.

That is what is foremost. Ground's economy of operation will no doubt weigh heavily on corporate's future plans.

 

[Gone fishin]

From the sound of things here the pay disparity is not much if anything for entry level drivers. Most of my drivers don't need benefits, they get them through their wives. They get everything else you mentioned except 401k, and they get to work in a much better environment. Less stress and better management.

Then your very good to your drivers and that's great. That's not the case of the ground drivers I know. They are always looking to get out

 

[bacha29]

I like what I do and I'm in a place in my life where this job is enough. My wife is the bread winner by far. I'm not complaining.
My point is if your 21 and have a shot at topping out and making 55 to 60 grand with decent benefits at express. You have a better chance of getting and keeping a good worker than ground does.

No ?

The question is will you get there? Yes Ground has some turnover but at the same time there are contractors at the terminal I was at who have drivers who have been with them for as long as 13 years. Several others more than 10. In the future to get to the money you're talking about you will have to be able to do more than just pick it up here and haul it over there. The money you're talking about is in the compensation range of skilled professionals

 

[Fred's Myth]

Another astute observation: If I were a Ground contractor looking for the next fool to purchase my "business" so I could get the hell out, I would post rumors (as fact) on this website proposing exactly the same tripe that I'm reading. The Art of the Deal.