He said, she said Termination

[Dustyroads]

Georgia, the announcement I listened to happened in the Kansas District. Sorry that it's not in your area.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Just got a call from my BA.... he was told today that I can come back to work this coming Monday (9/14/09) with an all time served suspension (only 6 weeks no big deal right?) and NO BACK PAY...... worst thing is I am getting the feeling that the Union is all for this idea..... they won't come out and say it but I get the feeling they would prefer I take the deal.....I am really torn on this one...... as I have stated before I think the company handled this thing in a really $#$% manner.....yet I would be grateful to get back to work...... just not sure what I am going to do..... the BA is waiting on me to call him back and let him know.....

 

[Catatonic]

Just got a call from my BA.... he was told today that I can come back to work this coming Monday (9/14/09) with an all time served suspension (only 6 weeks no big deal right?) and NO BACK PAY...... worst thing is I am getting the feeling that the Union is all for this idea..... they won't come out and say it but I get the feeling they would prefer I take the deal.....I am really torn on this one...... as I have stated before I think the company handled this thing in a really $#$% manner.....yet I would be grateful to get back to work...... just not sure what I am going to do..... the BA is waiting on me to call him back and let him know.....

You know your personal situation better than anyone else.
What is the downside if you turn it down and lose the next step?
Have you point blank asked the BA what his/her advise is?

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Hoaxster,

The implications of losing at the panel could be fourfold.....(a complete loss is well, a complete loss....no more UPS for me, period...) another option could be (you can have your job back with no backpay)... which is the choice I have now..... another option is (you can have your job back with some amount of backpay) and finally is the worst possible option (deadlock.... see you in about 6 months when we have an independent arbitrator) The BA seems very reluctant to advise me...... he says.... confidently I might add....... "I think I can put on a great case for you and you will be back at work"..... but when he says that the inflection in his voice to me sounds like he is really saying "I just wish you would settle so I don't have to deal with this"

 

[Catatonic]

Hoaxster,

The implications of losing at the panel could be fourfold.....(a complete loss is well, a complete loss....no more UPS for me, period...) another option could be (you can have your job back with no backpay)... which is the choice I have now..... another option is (you can have your job back with some amount of backpay) and finally is the worst possible option (deadlock.... see you in about 6 months when we have an independent arbitrator) The BA seems very reluctant to advise me...... he says.... confidently I might add....... "I think I can put on a great case for you and you will be back at work"..... but when he says that the inflection in his voice to me sounds like he is really saying "I just wish you would settle so I don't have to deal with this"

One thing to keep in mind is this. Union people, your BA included, are basically politicians.
As my signature says, "Pay no attention to what people say...observe their actions.
What is it that the BA was indicating with his "inflection"?
Is his assurance "to get you back to work" mere braggadocio?

As my original response was, "You know your personal situation better than anyone else."
To clarify that, the real question you have to answer to yourself personally, "Do you take the risk and put 19 years of "investment" on the table? What about your retirement through the Teamsters?
Can you take the risk of a cut in pay (presumably)?

Principle does not feed the family and is usually shouted out by the people who are not putting it on the line. Make your decision based on your assessment of your situation (loss versus gain) and its long-term effect on you.

 

[The Other Side]

Hoaxster,

The implications of losing at the panel could be fourfold.....(a complete loss is well, a complete loss....no more UPS for me, period...) another option could be (you can have your job back with no backpay)... which is the choice I have now..... another option is (you can have your job back with some amount of backpay) and finally is the worst possible option (deadlock.... see you in about 6 months when we have an independent arbitrator) The BA seems very reluctant to advise me...... he says.... confidently I might add....... "I think I can put on a great case for you and you will be back at work"..... but when he says that the inflection in his voice to me sounds like he is really saying "I just wish you would settle so I don't have to deal with this"

Georgia,

I will again tell you point blank. IF YOU DONT ACCEPT THE TERMS THAT HAVE BEEN PRESENTED TO YOU, THEN YOUR AN IDIOT.

This is not the people's court. At this point, ask your wife what she would like you to do:

1) sit out close to a year and possibly lose your case in a national arbitration.

2) get back to work , keep your mouth shut, do the job CORRECTLY, work extra overtime to gain back what you lost and stop pretending to have a case.

You have NOTHING TO WIN turning down this offer. You have to hope that your ba or executive officer of your local assigned to put on a case is qualified to do so.. IN most CASES..they ARENT.

Plain and simple.

I will be the first to laugh at you if you dont accept the terms.

Use a UPS cliche in your case.

TAKE THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE.

Then in a week, youll get a paycheck.

You have everything to lose and nothing to gain holding out like some football player.

Ignore the rediculous encouragements of the posters who advise you to hold out and fight. They have no DOG in your fight.

Your wife and kids are affected first, then you, then your future. No one on this board will ever be affected.

Sort out reality and get back to work.

Make the right decision.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Have heard some advice along the lines of take the offer go back to work and find a good labor lawyer and sue for back wages, suffering and emotional distress... and if and when UPS gets wind of it I would be covered because of the whistle-blower protection which was just validated by a recent court decision.....any thoughts?......(just can't wrap my mind around the fact that IF what I have supposedly done is so terrible then why offer me my job back at all)..... why not take me all the way to the panel and get rid of the troublemaker (me) once and for all?.....NO they realize that this punishment was excessive.

As for the BA...... I have spoken to him numerous times and something tells me that he just does not really want to put this case on..... maybe he is intimidated by the companys' guy (Division HR Manager) or something.... however he can't just come out and say it because then he would clearly not be acting his role........

 

[klein]

Georgia, I would go back to work, too.
But, be careful what they might want you to sign.
Don't sign nothing with "punished as time served"

I would want to keep that door open myself, to get backpay in a future date.
Just my opinion.

But, yes, I would be at work Monday. In time, all will pass.

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

Klein,

Ok, your advice is heard....if not yet heeded....Thanks

 

[klein]

Klein,

Ok, your advice is heard....if not yet heeded....Thanks

I honestly thought about it, because as you know, I was fired, but thought if they would take me back..
I would have shook hands with center manager, said no hard feelings. Now , lets get back to work ! (even though, I really wouldn't mean it) - but to clear up the air, atleast.

If you need to sign something... only with BA and after discussion with BA... shopsteward won't do you any good.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

GB, I think Hoax summed it up best. This decision is yours and yours alone. Good luck.



(But, if you are asking for my advice, I would say go back to work on Monday. Dave.)

 

[stevetheupsguy]

Georgia,

Make the right decision.

I didn't think you approved of anything having to do with "the right".

I honestly thought about it, because as you know, I was fired, but thought if they would take me back..
I would have shook hands with center manager, said no hard feelings. Now , lets get back to work ! (even though, I really wouldn't mean it) - but to clear up the air, atleast.

If you need to sign something... only with BA and after discussion with BA... shopsteward won't do you any good.

Maybe they sensed your true feelings and that is why you no longer work for Brown.

What Hoaxster said is true, GB. It's your choice, so choose wisely. If I were you I'd tell em you want the back pay. UPS just robbed you of 6 weeks pay over a silly misunderstanding, if what you posted is the truth and nothing but. If you have misled or lied in anyway, I suggest you take the offer get back to work and shut up for the next 10 years. Again, the choice is yours, as I don't know you from a hole in the wall. Choose wisely and live with the fact that you made the "right" choice for YOU.

 

[Dustyroads]

Georgia, I'm glad to hear that at least now you do have some options, I'm sure that is a relief for you in some ways. As you obviously know, the decision is entirely between you and your wife. I've been around a long time, I've seen panels go both ways on cases that surprised me. There are no guarantees either way.

If it is any help to hear, we've all been in the very same position that you currently find yourself. "Terminated", and then offered the job back with time served as a suspension. I've thought that might be an interesting thread, "What were you fired for, and how long were you off work". I will confess, I took the suspension; however, it was only one day, so obviously, not in the class with your six month loss.

Best of luck to you.

 

[klein]

Maybe they sensed your true feelings and that is why you no longer work for Brown.

You think Georgia will be going back to work, with no hard feelings ?
You think he liked being friend...d around ?

I told him to act, as if there are no hard feelings.... and that he has to do.

Ofcourse it took a toll, and how he thinks of Brown now (or atleast his center manager and sups).

 

[brownmonster]

Georgia, I'm glad to hear that at least now you do have some options, I'm sure that is a relief for you in some ways. As you obviously know, the decision is entirely between you and your wife. I've been around a long time, I've seen panels go both ways on cases that surprised me. There are no guarantees either way.

If it is any help to hear, we've all been in the very same position that you currently find yourself. "Terminated", and then offered the job back with time served as a suspension. I've thought that might be an interesting thread, "What were you fired for, and how long were you off work". I will confess, I took the suspension; however, it was only one day, so obviously, not in the class with your six month loss.

Best of luck to you.

I would assume the majority of drivers were never suspended or fired. Or at least 51%.

 

[Dustyroads]

I guess it depends on how long you've worked for brown. I've known a lot of guys who were "suspended" at least once in their career.

 

[Dustyroads]

There was a good friend of mine, who, a good number of years ago, was the top seniority cover driver. He came in one morning and the center manager told him that he would have to run a particularily unpleasant route, while several less senior cover drivers were running far more desirable routes. When he complained of this situation, the center manager said, you can run this or go home. A smile broke across his face, and he scooted out of the office. He went home, he and his wife went out for lunch and bought a new car. Later that afternoon, his phone rang, it was the union hall, wanting to know what the deal was with his termination. Surprised, he asked, what termination? The hall said, the center manager said you chose termination over running the route. My buddy replied, termination, they offered me the day off...run this or go home...heck, I went out and bought a new car. That turned into a one day "suspension".

 

[GeorgiaBrown]

To all,

I consulted my wife (who makes more money than I do) and she is backing whatever my decision is 100%..... in fact since this entire thing transpired.....I have clued her into how UPS operates (via all your posts and threads here) she has the lowest of the low opinion of big brown........ and I can say that my attitude is forever changed.......I am still hoping for 25 and out... that leaves me 4 years to go and god willing I can hack it......I thought about my wifes suggestion that I start back and then immediately consider looking for another line of work.... albeit the times are lean and choices will be slim..... I don't believe that I will pursue that angle..... someone suggested (otherside I think) that I just try and make up the lost money with overtime..... (that is not and has never been my style) I like to do my job and go home and I think perhaps that will be a difficult trend for me to break....($45 an hour is cool but my free time is more valuable than that) I talked to the BA late this afternoon and since he could not arrange a meeting for Monday this has passed to Tuesday at which time I am returning to work.......I want something additional from the company for this..... I suggested that instead of the paperwork on file which can be used as progressive discipline (meaning the next infraction, God I hope not) and can result in termination since this is going to be considered a suspension....that the company replace this with just a warning letter....(meaning scaling this thing back to just a warning letter, which in my opinion would have been punishment enough) I feel pretty adamant about the company giving me this consideration... we will see what happens.....

 

[Mike23]

To all,

I consulted my wife (who makes more money than I do) and she is backing whatever my decision is 100%..... in fact since this entire thing transpired.....I have clued her into how UPS operates (via all your posts and threads here) she has the lowest of the low opinion of big brown........ and I can say that my attitude is forever changed.......I am still hoping for 25 and out... that leaves me 4 years to go and god willing I can hack it......I thought about my wifes suggestion that I start back and then immediately consider looking for another line of work.... albeit the times are lean and choices will be slim..... I don't believe that I will pursue that angle..... someone suggested (otherside I think) that I just try and make up the lost money with overtime..... (that is not and has never been my style) I like to do my job and go home and I think perhaps that will be a difficult trend for me to break....($45 an hour is cool but my free time is more valuable than that) I talked to the BA late this afternoon and since he could not arrange a meeting for Monday this has passed to Tuesday at which time I am returning to work.......I want something additional from the company for this..... I suggested that instead of the paperwork on file which can be used as progressive discipline (meaning the next infraction, God I hope not) and can result in termination since this is going to be considered a suspension....that the company replace this with just a warning letter....(meaning scaling this thing back to just a warning letter, which in my opinion would have been punishment enough) I feel pretty adamant about the company giving me this consideration... we will see what happens.....

If you only have 4 years to go and my wife made more money then me I'd definitely fight for back pay. Hell, it's only another $200 a month through retirement. I think even a walmart job gives about the same 'pension' as we do anyways. Unless you're owing TONS of money, even if you lost, your wife could support you (although tight times) and you could likely live fairly comfortably off of having a minimum wage job with her being the bread winner. A buddy of mine does that. He dropped to PT driver from FT driver because his wife's a school teacher and they can live off of what she makes, his money is only 'fun money'.

If the center manager did have this 'meeting' with you, it would be documented WITH your signature. I've been hauled into the office to 'communicate more efficiently' and I had to sign off on that little meeting. If it was indeed so serious then two days prior your center manager would have had this stupid paper signed by you and her.

I'm assuming you've been a very good boy as a driver and it's likely you have a very small file. It's also likely you haven't had any type of 'dishonesty' in the past. Dishonest also means you have a disposition to lie. Ever been in an accident? If you have, did you report it? Accidents are more serious then this little witch hunt and if you reported that it proves you're not disposed to dishonesty. I recall my psych class said our morals were embedded in us at a very young age (likely you can find this in some basic psych book). Since this is the case it's VERY difficult to change these morals later in life and I doubt you, for one day, had a midlife crisis and through them all out the window over this one stop.

I say stick it to'em. That's just me though

 

[cachsux]

For what it`s worth GB the suspension with time served no back pay has pretty much been the standard operating procedure around here for everything. A varying cross section of drivers with all forms of financial situations have taken the decision and come back to work. What you do is up to you but one thing I would look at is UPS has far deeper pockets when it comes down to getting serious in a matter such as this. You are out $7000? Divide that out for the rest of this year and see what you`d really have to work to make it back. Just an opinion,no more no less.