Healthcare Costs - A major concern 23 years PRIOR to ObamaCare

[brown_trousers]

There shouldnt be any sympathy for UPS here on the healthcare issue. Bottom line, is that UPS can easily afford our healthcare as it is now and will continue to be able to afford it well into the future. UPS is not a company that is balancing on the edge of bankruptcy. There is ALOT of profit floating around this company.

UPS asking us for concessions on healthcare is basically asking us to maximize their profits at our expense. Our healthcare benefits will NOT bankrupt this company. We should not accept one penny of concessions on the healthcare issue

 

[Brownslave688]

One is subsidized by the taxes you pay and the doctor probably got less than $20 and the administrative cost to deal with teh insurance companies is greater than $10 - I doubt if the doctor got $10.

​Not necessarily. Most doctors charge $400 or more for a full blood panel test -- and that doesn't include the charge for the office visit, or the administrative charge for drawing the blood. It doesn't cost a doctor anything close to $400 to provide the test, which is why most will accept $20 or less from PPOs & HMOs as full payment. If you don't have insurance, your doctor will not negotiate cash rates anywhere close to the HMO/PPO rates... he'll probably request $100 or more for the full blood panel + the office visit & administrative fees.

Late last year I had a swab test performed. Knowing that my insurance considered it experimental, I sought the cheapest cash price & located a doctor who would perform it for $39 + $15 admin fee. After paying him $54, he then billed my insurance $120 for the swab, $280 for the lab work & $240 for the office visit. He received $120 for the office visit, then billed me for the remaining $350 (crediting me my $54), insisting that since I had insurance, it was "unethical" for him to accept the cash price. Honestly, when it comes to $$$, doctors are some of the greediest people around.... (but it wasn't unethical for him not to tell me this to begin with)

Dr also have student loans that are often more than any of us will. Ever pay for a house. They deserve to make plenty of money and your everyday physician really doesn't make all that much.

The problem with obamacare is the same as the problem we have right now. Those that have pay a premium for those that don't have.

 

[Bagels]

Dr also have student loans that are often more than any of us will. Ever pay for a house. They deserve to make plenty of money and your everyday physician really doesn't make all that much.

The problem with obamacare is the same as the problem we have right now. Those that have pay a premium for those that don't have.

Doctors aren't special -- (most) any college graduate will have student loans. In fact, if you compare public school graduates to public school graduates & private to private, the debt level of a medical school grad (eight years) isn't significantly higher than that of an MBA grad (six year program). This is because medical school candidates earn scholarships at higher clips than their peers & because medical school is about the same annual cost as other graduate programs -- meaning those who pursue MBA & JD are subsidizing those who pursue MD (yes, this is true).

And yes, PCP really do make "that much." PCP who own their own practice earn, on average, between $300,000-$500,000 annually -- depending on how many hours they desire to put in. Young people entering the profession are increasingly opting against owning their own practice in favor of working for health systems/hospitals ... mainly because they're disinterested in working longer hours. And those people (after ten years) are still baking $250,000+.

 

[Wally]

I always thought we need tort reform. Doctors order every test under the sun because some lawyer is just itching to sue! Yes, doctors do screw up, but most of the time it is plain and simple CYA.

 

[Brownslave688]

Dr also have student loans that are often more than any of us will. Ever pay for a house. They deserve to make plenty of money and your everyday physician really doesn't make all that much.

The problem with obamacare is the same as the problem we have right now. Those that have pay a premium for those that don't have.

Doctors aren't special -- (most) any college graduate will have student loans. In fact, if you compare public school graduates to public school graduates & private to private, the debt level of a medical school grad (eight years) isn't significantly higher than that of an MBA grad (six year program). This is because medical school candidates earn scholarships at higher clips than their peers & because medical school is about the same annual cost as other graduate programs -- meaning those who pursue MBA & JD are subsidizing those who pursue MD (yes, this is true).

And yes, PCP really do make "that much." PCP who own their own practice earn, on average, between $300,000-$500,000 annually -- depending on how many hours they desire to put in. Young people entering the profession are increasingly opting against owning their own practice in favor of working for health systems/hospitals ... mainly because they're disinterested in working longer hours. And those people (after ten years) are still baking $250,000+.

Lol my wife wants to know what world u live in that Family practice dr make 250K plus. She didn't go into this profession because she could do less school with less loans and make more money to be a CRNA.

200k is pushing what a family practice dr or pediatrician will make.

 

[TUT]

Rising healthcare costs have been an issue for decades.

Fixed

 

[Bagels]

Lol my wife wants to know what world u live in that Family practice dr make 250K plus. She didn't go into this profession because she could do less school with less loans and make more money to be a CRNA.

200k is pushing what a family practice dr or pediatrician will make.

First off, as I mentioned earlier, the student debt issue is blown out of proportion. A medical school graduate, on average, accures about $20K-$30K (depending on the source) more debt than an MBA graduate -- despite the fact that the medical school graduate has borrowed against two additional years of schooling (average total = $60K) and living expenses. [As I mentioned earlier, this is because most medical school graduates received scholarships that covered much of their undergraduate studies.] And $20K-$30K is nothing against the MBA considering doctor's higher earning potential. Considering that college tuition has tripled, and even quadrupled, in most areas over the past 10-15 years, student loan debt is not a concern strictly related to any single profession.

Secondly, PCP's earning potential is affected by their willingness to work. Doctors who are zealous in building a comprehensive practice & working long hours can easily bank $300K-$500K annually. My brother-in-law owns a practice in which few patients are referred out -- he has his own x-ray equipment, diagnostics lab, a shared interest in mobile CT imaging, etc. He spent most of his 30s building & investing in the practice, working 12+ hours six days each week. He's now in his 40s and works 1.5-3.5 days per week (depending on the season) -- most of his patients are seen by a collection of doctors working for him -- and his business banks him over $1M each year. The reality is that most young persons entering the profession aren't interested in working long hours... they want to drive Porsche cars while in residency, then work as few hours as possible for a business. But statistics show that even those people earn an average of $250,000/year (after 10-years in the profession...which seems to be the watermark).

Lastly, despite the scare tactics of the Right, there is no shortage of young people desiring to be doctor's -- in fact, there's zero slots to go unreserved into medical schools each year. There is, and has always been, a shortage of medical schools -- driven by a lack of qualified educators. Few doctors are interested in the meager pay days earned from teaching compared to earnings potential by practicing medicine. We could slightly remedy this by increasingly integrating a virtual learning environment. But we resist. Just like we resist integrating physicians's assistants and nurse practitioners into our every day hospitality environment, which would eliminate the shortages that have always existed.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Fixed

Health insurance premiums have only skyrocketed since the Democrats blessed us with Obamacare & its expected to continue to rise. That's a far cry from the $2500 dollars less Obama claimed people would be paying if we passed his legislation. We can't afford anymore fixes from this bunch.

 

[Bagels]

Health insurance premiums have only skyrocketed since the Democrats blessed us with Obamacare & its expected to continue to rise. That's a far cry from the $2500 dollars less Obama claimed people would be paying if we passed his legislation. We can't afford anymore fixes from this bunch.

False. The rise in heath care premiums has SLOWED since the passage of ObamaCare -- although nobody can explain why. Health care premiums have "skyrocketed" for over 30 years, with the sole exception being an outlier surrounding the introduction of PPOs in the 1990s.

Not that you accept facts, anyway.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

...heath care premiums has SLOWED since the passage of ObamaCare -- although nobody can explain why.

Nobody can explain why...Why not just credit Obamacare? Are you arguing the speed of the term "skyrocketing"? I guess Obama's rate of skyrocketing healthcare premiums is slower than the skyrocketing time period you are comparing it too? I do remember him saying that his Health plan would bring rates down & that if we liked our current plans we could keep them.

You may be confusing it with his plan for our energy costs where he say energy prices under his cap & trade plan would "necessarily skyrocket".

 

[Brownslave688]

Health insurance premiums have only skyrocketed since the Democrats blessed us with Obamacare & its expected to continue to rise. That's a far cry from the $2500 dollars less Obama claimed people would be paying if we passed his legislation. We can't afford anymore fixes from this bunch.

False. The rise in heath care premiums has SLOWED since the passage of ObamaCare -- although nobody can explain why. Health care premiums have "skyrocketed" for over 30 years, with the sole exception being an outlier surrounding the introduction of PPOs in the 1990s.

Not that you accept facts, anyway.

How about the fact that my uncle who is healthy as is his wife and kids can't even find anyone to sell them insurance.

Just got dropped because the company is no longer providing personal health insurance.

Why? Because of obamacare those aren't my words. Those are the insurance companies words.

 

[Dracula]

Health insurance premiums have only skyrocketed since the Democrats blessed us with Obamacare & its expected to continue to rise. That's a far cry from the $2500 dollars less Obama claimed people would be paying if we passed his legislation. We can't afford anymore fixes from this bunch.

Health Insurance Premiums Up 131% in Last Ten Years | TIME.com

Up 131% in the last ten years. Do you ever get tired about being wrong? Didn't think so...

 

[TUT]

Health insurance premiums have only skyrocketed since the Democrats blessed us with Obamacare

You are a shill or brainwashed. We were saying the same things in the late 80's. The medical system thrives on fear and on "hey how can you put a price on health?". They do and it's ever increasing by their design. We're stuck, because we think if we limit them, that miracle cure won't be there for us when needed. A good part of the rest of the world gets to live off the subsides we provide paying above retail.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Health Insurance Premiums Up 131% in Last Ten Years | TIME.com

Up 131% in the last ten years. Do you ever get tired about being wrong? Didn't think so...

Obama has been president for 40% of the last decade.

 

[Bagels]

How about the fact that my uncle who is healthy as is his wife and kids can't even find anyone to sell them insurance.

Just got dropped because the company is no longer providing personal health insurance.

Why? Because of obamacare those aren't my words. Those are the insurance companies words.

I'm confused... are you saying his company dropped health insurance, several years before ObamaCare took effect? If that's the case, have him contact FOX News because they've been zealously searching -- unsuccessfully -- for people like him. Or are you saying his private insurance company no longer desires to profit off him?

In either case, I suspect you don't have the whole story.

 

[Bagels]

Nobody can explain why...Why not just credit Obamacare? Are you arguing the speed of the term "skyrocketing"? I guess Obama's rate of skyrocketing healthcare premiums is slower than the skyrocketing time period you are comparing it too? I do remember him saying that his Health plan would bring rates down & that if we liked our current plans we could keep them.

You may be confusing it with his plan for our energy costs where he say energy prices under his cap & trade plan would "necessarily skyrocket".

Obama has been president for 40% of the last decade.

Everybody has a right to their own opinion, but what continues to amuse me is that you continually push false assertions. Health insurance premiums have "skyrocked" for over 30 years, mainly a derivative of the snowball effect of companies that dumped/diminished plans in search of larger profits. The largest rate increases during this time frame came under a Republican-controlled White House & Congress. The rate has slowed since the passage of ObamaCare, although we can't determine a definite reason as to why.

You can pretend that health care premiums haven't been soaring over the past 30 years.
You can pretend that the burden of the un/underinsured hasn't taken its toll on our system.
You can pretend that UPS isn't a publicly traded, for profit corporation that needs to address its high labor costs toward its shareholders.

That doesn't make it any more true, however.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Everybody has a right to their own opinion, but what continues to amuse me is that you continually push false assertions. Health insurance premiums have "skyrocked" for over 30 years, mainly a derivative of the snowball effect of companies that dumped/diminished plans in search of larger profits. The largest rate increases during this time frame came under a Republican-controlled White House & Congress. The rate has slowed since the passage of ObamaCare, although we can't determine a definite reason as to why.

You can pretend that health care premiums haven't been soaring over the past 30 years.
You can pretend that the burden of the un/underinsured hasn't taken its toll on our system.
You can pretend that UPS isn't a publicly traded, for profit corporation that needs to address its high labor costs toward its shareholders.

That doesn't make it any more true, however.

I've said many times that insurance premiums have been increasing for decades but Obamacare was sold to the American people, at least half of them, as the solution. But now Democrats act as if theyve had nothing to do with healthcare. It's like the story of the dog trainer who returns your shoe chewing, car chasing, carpet messing dog after thousands have been spent & says "hey, he was like that before I trained him". Nobody wants to take responsibility for the massive bill they passed. I realize the emotional investment many of you have in our historical president but eventually you will have to come to term with the fact that he has sold out every union members health care in favor of his own nationalized plan, & our union leaders made it possible. I don't think Obamacare would have ever passed without the huge show of support from Hoffa & others.

Keep telling yourself that Obamacare won't affect you. We'll see when this contract is unveiled.

 

[Brownslave688]

I'm confused... are you saying his company dropped health insurance, several years before ObamaCare took effect? If that's the case, have him contact FOX News because they've been zealously searching -- unsuccessfully -- for people like him. Or are you saying his private insurance company no longer desires to profit off him?

In either case, I suspect you don't have the whole story.

his private insurance company dropped health insurance period end of story. They told him moving forward they didn't want to be in the health insurance business because of obamacare. He's got the money to pay cash in most situations so I'm sure they will do just fine.

 

[Justaname]

I've said many times that insurance premiums have been increasing for decades but Obamacare was sold to the American people, at least half of them, as the solution. But now Democrats act as if theyve had nothing to do with healthcare. It's like the story of the dog trainer who returns your shoe chewing, car chasing, carpet messing dog after thousands have been spent & says "hey, he was like that before I trained him". Nobody wants to take responsibility for the massive bill they passed. I realize the emotional investment many of you have in our historical president but eventually you will have to come to term with the fact that he has sold out every union members health care in favor of his own nationalized plan, & our union leaders made it possible. I don't think Obamacare would have ever passed without the huge show of support from Hoffa & others.

Keep telling yourself that Obamacare won't affect you. We'll see when this contract is unveiled.

if I have to settle for less of a health insurance plan so those less fortunate then me will be able to see a doctor for their medical needs, then so be it. I support Obama care.

 

[kingOFchester]

A tad off topic, but Obama is looking to raise taxes yet again. We haven't even hit the deadline to file our 2012 taxes and just absorbed the reinstated previous taxes.