I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism
- Thread starter rickyb
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Operational needs
Virescit Vulnere Virtus
Walls of texts? No thanks. Ain’t nobody got time for that.....except you.feel free to set the example with your own posts
AMY GOODMAN: And how do you share the profits?
MIKEL LEZAMIZ: OK, from the gross profit in each cooperative, they have to put some money in the cooperative—in the corporate, Mondragon corporate corporation. So, for example, all the cooperatives has to put 10 percent of their gross profits in Mondragon investment fund. This investment fund is to create new cooperatives or to help the cooperatives to set up new business or for the internationalization. If one company needs to buy a factory in the States, or they want to create a new factory in the States, the cooperatives is going to put 60 percent of the investment, and 40 percent is put from this Mondragon investment fund. They have to put another 2 percent in Mondragon education, to help mostly to the university, Mondragon University, and another 2 percent in Mondragon solidarity fund. This is—this fund is in case of losses of each cooperative, solidarity fund. But after that, they have to pay their taxes. And after paying taxes, they have their net profits.
How we share the net profits: 10 percent should go, because by law it’s compulsory to do so, 10 percent goes to the fund of education and for the society. This is to help the children or the NGOs or support for the society. Each cooperative, they say how they are going to share this 10 percent. And after that, we send another 45 percent to the fund or reserve of cooperatives. This is to invest in the cooperatives to work every one all the year. And the other 45 percent are returns, returns to workers. But in this case, we don’t get these returns—these dividends, as you say; we say "returns"—because these returns is to work. And we don’t get these dividends in cash. We capitalize. So, everyone—we have the initial capital, and after that, all this capital, all these returns that we share between us, and I’ll get this money when I retire. But in the meantime, my company is using this capital, this investment, and that is another way of overcoming the economic crisis. One of the most important features of Mondragon is that 90 percent of the profits, we reinvest, because only 10 percent goes to the society directly, and the other 45 goes to the cooperatives to invest in new product and new machines and then so on, and the other 45 is my money, but that is inside the cooperatives, and the cooperatives invest. So, 90 percent of the profits, we reinvest in order to create employment.
MIKEL LEZAMIZ: OK, from the gross profit in each cooperative, they have to put some money in the cooperative—in the corporate, Mondragon corporate corporation. So, for example, all the cooperatives has to put 10 percent of their gross profits in Mondragon investment fund. This investment fund is to create new cooperatives or to help the cooperatives to set up new business or for the internationalization. If one company needs to buy a factory in the States, or they want to create a new factory in the States, the cooperatives is going to put 60 percent of the investment, and 40 percent is put from this Mondragon investment fund. They have to put another 2 percent in Mondragon education, to help mostly to the university, Mondragon University, and another 2 percent in Mondragon solidarity fund. This is—this fund is in case of losses of each cooperative, solidarity fund. But after that, they have to pay their taxes. And after paying taxes, they have their net profits.
How we share the net profits: 10 percent should go, because by law it’s compulsory to do so, 10 percent goes to the fund of education and for the society. This is to help the children or the NGOs or support for the society. Each cooperative, they say how they are going to share this 10 percent. And after that, we send another 45 percent to the fund or reserve of cooperatives. This is to invest in the cooperatives to work every one all the year. And the other 45 percent are returns, returns to workers. But in this case, we don’t get these returns—these dividends, as you say; we say "returns"—because these returns is to work. And we don’t get these dividends in cash. We capitalize. So, everyone—we have the initial capital, and after that, all this capital, all these returns that we share between us, and I’ll get this money when I retire. But in the meantime, my company is using this capital, this investment, and that is another way of overcoming the economic crisis. One of the most important features of Mondragon is that 90 percent of the profits, we reinvest, because only 10 percent goes to the society directly, and the other 45 goes to the cooperatives to invest in new product and new machines and then so on, and the other 45 is my money, but that is inside the cooperatives, and the cooperatives invest. So, 90 percent of the profits, we reinvest in order to create employment.
more of what driveindriveout would call propaganda. i like steve keen, he was one of the few who predicted the financial crisis of 08:
What you are not being told about the economy
Published time: 2 Oct, 2017 14:34
As Karl Marx’s ‘Das Kapital’ turns 150 and the global financial crisis enters its tenth year, we ask why it is that we are still no closer to creating an economy that actually works. Perhaps more importantly, why do mainstream economists continue to miss the fundamental drivers of financial instability? Host Ross Ashcroft talks about what’s next for the global economy with Professor Steve Keen, an economist who correctly predicted the financial crisis and the author of ‘Debunking Economics.’
What you are not being told about the economy
What you are not being told about the economy
Published time: 2 Oct, 2017 14:34
As Karl Marx’s ‘Das Kapital’ turns 150 and the global financial crisis enters its tenth year, we ask why it is that we are still no closer to creating an economy that actually works. Perhaps more importantly, why do mainstream economists continue to miss the fundamental drivers of financial instability? Host Ross Ashcroft talks about what’s next for the global economy with Professor Steve Keen, an economist who correctly predicted the financial crisis and the author of ‘Debunking Economics.’
What you are not being told about the economy
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
What economic system are you proposing?
You can't answer the question kid.
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
Total scam. I'd rather keep my profits myself than let the co-op keep them and reinvest. No guarantee you'll ever get those profits back.
pahaha, its capitalism thats the scam!
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
Is that supposed to be a counter point? I own a company under capitalism. At the end of the year I can keep all my profits or reinvest in my company if I choose to. Your clip here says these "owners" don't have that choice, the co-op keeps their profits. I'll stick with my way.
1989
Well-Known Member
He likes anything that says co op. He just like the word. Doesn't care about the real numbers. Even though much of them pay low wages, have board of directors, and one has to buy in. Much like UPS stock. I have ups shares yielding 20%. He has never given examples of high payouts. He can't compare numbers because co ops don't stack up. He has no clue of what's out there.
oldngray
nowhere special
He just wants to be an instant CEO in charge of other people's money. With no investment of his own.
unlike UPS which is always firing workers on here...:
AMY GOODMAN: Did you have to decide about job cuts or pay cuts during the crisis?
MIKEL LEZAMIZ: We never fire any member of Mondragon—we never—in these 56 years, because we pass, and before of going unemployed, we pass from one to the other cooperatives. At this moment, only 250 are relocated. But before, I can remember that in 1991, ’92, ’93, that were a very high crisis, in that moment we had more than 2,000 people relocated in the other cooperatives in order to overcome the economic crisis. And after that, in 1994, we started growing, and now we are more than before.
AMY GOODMAN: Did you have to decide about job cuts or pay cuts during the crisis?
MIKEL LEZAMIZ: We never fire any member of Mondragon—we never—in these 56 years, because we pass, and before of going unemployed, we pass from one to the other cooperatives. At this moment, only 250 are relocated. But before, I can remember that in 1991, ’92, ’93, that were a very high crisis, in that moment we had more than 2,000 people relocated in the other cooperatives in order to overcome the economic crisis. And after that, in 1994, we started growing, and now we are more than before.
captialism IS a scam. the employers profit off of the workers. workers have no idea how much theyre being profited off.
workers make few decisions. they are always being told what to do. capitalism is like being in a state of perpetual childhood.
if were going to question capitalism, then we have to look where the evidence is pointing: record inequality, undemocratic workplaces, most people dont like their jobs, capitalism has issues with political democracy, too much centralized power, etc
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DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
What economic system are you proposing? Can't answer the question.
last winter i was working 32 hour work weeks by my own enlightened choice because it was so slow. then, the capitalist / union bureacracy kicked in and my boss told me that the union checks on hours its employees worked and that i have to work at least 35 hours a week.
so yesterday the union guy popped in and i asked when its slow i want to do 32 hours a week and if he could talk to my boss about it.
these capitalists are so inefficient, they would rather pay me to do nothing than send me home and save some money.
so yesterday the union guy popped in and i asked when its slow i want to do 32 hours a week and if he could talk to my boss about it.
these capitalists are so inefficient, they would rather pay me to do nothing than send me home and save some money.
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
You know you don't have to work someone else, right? You're free to start your own business. You're free to sell shares of said company to anyone you want including your employees. What's stopping you if you have all the answers?
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
I got bored with the Trump supporters. I thought Ricky might be able to examine some of his loony ideas and defend them. I'm not having much luck.
Returntosender
Well-Known Member
im only asking you to do the same.
i just remembered that a while ago i realized that capitalism centralizes risk and reward because less people own the job, whereas coops spread risk and reward.
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