I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism

[zubenelgenubi]

@zubenelgenubi this conversation isnt so much about capitalism as i think george likes capitalism but they do talk alot about power vs truth which we were talking about on the coronavirus thread. They both support democracy partly because its the moral choice.

I'm sorry, when people post these hour long + videos and podcast things, I just don't have time for that.

Let's get down to brass tacks. Democracy has its place, I'm sure. You seem to be in favor of democratically run businesses, which is fine. I say if that works, great. But there are very few co-ops, apparently, and I don't know if you have found one that employs your ideal of democracy. And even if all businesses followed a co-op, democratic model, the overarching economic model would still be capitalistic.

But if we are talking about a direct democracy in all aspects of our lives, it would never work, regardless of anyone's claims of morality. Too many decisions to be made, too many opposing interests at play. People tend not to vote even when it's once or twice a year. Participation would be way down if we were voting on stuff constantly.

The reason why republics, such as ours, allow for the highest degree of morality, is that our representatives are constrained by a constitution that protects the rights of the minority against the will of the majority. Strictly speaking, a democracy has no such protections.

 

[rickyb]

I'm sorry, when people post these hour long + videos and podcast things, I just don't have time for that.

Let's get down to brass tacks. Democracy has its place, I'm sure. You seem to be in favor of democratically run businesses, which is fine. I say if that works, great. But there are very few co-ops, apparently, and I don't know if you have found one that employs your ideal of democracy. And even if all businesses followed a co-op, democratic model, the overarching economic model would still be capitalistic.

But if we are talking about a direct democracy in all aspects of our lives, it would never work, regardless of anyone's claims of morality. Too many decisions to be made, too many opposing interests at play. People tend not to vote even when it's once or twice a year. Participation would be way down if we were voting on stuff constantly.

The reason why republics, such as ours, allow for the highest degree of morality, is that our representatives are constrained by a constitution that protects the rights of the minority against the will of the majority. Strictly speaking, a democracy has no such protections.

Interesting. although u have to wonder about who wrote the constitution. they also mentioned we may b headed towards a culture which freedom of speech is protected formally but unofficially u do not have it. its pretty clear america is heavily spied on by its own govt.

Australia has mandatory voting including non of the above.

I listen to talks at work or while cooking, or while walking the dog

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Interesting. although u have to wonder about who wrote the constitution. they also mentioned we may b headed towards a culture which freedom of speech is protected formally but unofficially u do not have it. its pretty clear america is heavily spied on by its own govt.

Australia has mandatory voting including non of the above.

I listen to talks at work or while cooking, or while walking the dog

I like to focus on the job when I'm at work. When I'm doing other things I don't like having head phones in because the wires get in the way, and I'm too cheap to invest in good wireless set. When I have time to settle in and pay attention, I have my own things I like to keep up on.

I have been vocally against the Patriot Act, and I think more people are waking up to the fear narrative used to push stuff like that through. Just like they are waking up to the fear narrative being pushed to control people during this slightly unusual cold virus situation.

I have no problem with vote reform, mandatory voting sounds a little on the tyrannical side to me though.

 

[rickyb]

I like to focus on the job when I'm at work. When I'm doing other things I don't like having head phones in because the wires get in the way, and I'm too cheap to invest in good wireless set. When I have time to settle in and pay attention, I have my own things I like to keep up on.

I have been vocally against the Patriot Act, and I think more people are waking up to the fear narrative used to push stuff like that through. Just like they are waking up to the fear narrative being pushed to control people during this slightly unusual cold virus situation.

I have no problem with vote reform, mandatory voting sounds a little on the tyrannical side to me though.

yea i was thinking about that too regarding mandatory voting, although we have other mandatory things like wearing seatbelts, etc. they definitely need the day off for voting.

covid aside from the supposed 220k it killed was probably good for media profits so it got coverage and i agree they used the crisis to do nefarious things like bail out big corps. i agree the war on terrorism was just another justification for the govt to do alot of nefarious things.

sometimes its good to focus at work if you cant handle the distraction of audio.

 

[rickyb]

they talk about the radical state intervention of alexander hamilton and say we need to do something similar to transition to a sustainable economy:

 

[rickyb]

notice hte space in teh aisles. we are being raped. this is a plane.

 

[rickyb]

Capitalism is a race to the bottom. They ruin otherwise perfectly good jobs like ups with their greed and going against everything the bible says to do.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Capitalism is a race to the bottom. They ruin otherwise perfectly good jobs like ups with their greed and going against everything the bible says to do.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25:14-30 - English Standard Version

The Parable of the Talents - “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[BadIdeaGuy]

Capitalism is a race to the bottom. They ruin otherwise perfectly good jobs like ups with their greed and going against everything the bible says to do.

Okay.
Yes or no question.
Are we taking the Bible as an authority in this conversation?

 

[rickyb]

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25:14-30 - English Standard Version

The Parable of the Talents - “For it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted to them his property. To one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. He who had received the five talents went at...

www.biblegateway.com

why do they say master and servants? i dont see how bible can be pro slavery because it would go against too many of its rules. capitalism wasnt around when bible started, but it again violates the rules of the bible.

 

[BadIdeaGuy]

why do they say master and servants? i dont see how bible can be pro slavery because it would go against too many of its rules. capitalism wasnt around when bible started, but it again violates the rules of the bible.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

why do they say master and servants? i dont see how bible can be pro slavery because it would go against too many of its rules. capitalism wasnt around when bible started, but it again violates the rules of the bible.

Most of them was indentured servants

 

[rickyb]

Most of them was indentured servants

like a feudal system?

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

like a feudal system?

Yeah I guess would be very similar

 

[Old Man Jingles]

why do they say master and servants? i dont see how bible can be pro slavery because it would go against too many of its rules. capitalism wasnt around when bible started, but it again violates the rules of the bible.

Spoken by someone who has never studied the Bible or the times in which it was written.

 

[rickyb]

Spoken by someone who has never studied the Bible or the times in which it was written.

well chris hedges graduated harvard divinity, cornel west is a devout christian, michael hudson wrote a book "and forgive them their debts" which points to us misunderstanding hte bible, alot of modern stories are loosely based on it, and ive listened to james cone. so i disagree

 

[Box Ox]

well chris hedges graduated harvard divinity, cornel west is a devout christian, michael hudson wrote a book "and forgive them their debts" which points to us misunderstanding hte bible, alot of modern stories are loosely based on it, and ive listened to james cone. so i disagree

 

[rickyb]

View attachment 320427

what would jesus say?

 

[rickyb]

if hte UPS capitalists thought htey could make more money by having worker's eyebrows shaved they would do it

 

[rickyb]

capitalism and most mainstream economic system turn us workers into eddie