I drink your milkshake! a metaphor for capitalism

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
the question is how is capitalism working for you

Just fine. Should have my house paid off in a couple years. Everyone in my family is fed, happy and healthy. Got money socked away, some precious metals, two working, reliable cars. I've been able to expand my skill set. What more are you going to tell me I need?
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Just fine. Should have my house paid off in a couple years. Everyone in my family is fed, happy and healthy. Got money socked away, some precious metals, two working, reliable cars. I've been able to expand my skill set. What more are you going to tell me I need?
some of that stuff wont survive an inflation. the rest wont survive the collapse that naturally follows as system which consumes too hard. some ppl had money under dictatorships too. your kids and my generation will be lucky if we dont have decades cut from our life expectancies. certainly the next generation will.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
some of that stuff wont survive an inflation. the rest wont survive the collapse that naturally follows as system which consumes too hard. some ppl had money under dictatorships too. your kids and my generation will be lucky if we dont have decades cut from our life expectancies. certainly the next generation will.

So, you're telling me I should, what? Voluntarily make my life more difficult to make sure I live to 90 instead of 70? Naw, I'm good. I don't believe there has ever been a system that "consumes too hard", simply systems that allow corrupt, incompetant people to weasel their way into positions of power, use them exclusively for their own benefit. When they get called out on their corrupt incompetence they make up nonsensical excuses like: "consuming too hard (as if they aren't the ones actually guilty of such a thing), or "too many people, gotta treat people like cattle and cull the herd."

When, in reality, competent people would have no problem managing resources, but that prevents the corrupt, incompetent people from getting the power they lust after. That is to be expected from any human system. Free markets simply allow for alternatives to compete against the failures caused by incompetence, so the system can self-correct, which it has and will, just usually with dire consequences. But that's the fault of corrupt, incompetents getting power they shouldn't have, not simply a flaw in the system.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
So, you're telling me I should, what? Voluntarily make my life more difficult to make sure I live to 90 instead of 70? Naw, I'm good. I don't believe there has ever been a system that "consumes too hard", simply systems that allow corrupt, incompetant people to weasel their way into positions of power, use them exclusively for their own benefit. When they get called out on their corrupt incompetence they make up nonsensical excuses like: "consuming too hard (as if they aren't the ones actually guilty of such a thing), or "too many people, gotta treat people like cattle and cull the herd."

When, in reality, competent people would have no problem managing resources, but that prevents the corrupt, incompetent people from getting the power they lust after. That is to be expected from any human system. Free markets simply allow for alternatives to compete against the failures caused by incompetence, so the system can self-correct, which it has and will, just usually with dire consequences. But that's the fault of corrupt, incompetents getting power they shouldn't have, not simply a flaw in the system.
i know you dont.

the crew is drunk at the wheel. the captain knows were headed for disaster but time will tell if they are able to change course or if its a complete ship wreck.

btw thats great to hear about some of your accomplishments, many of your fellow countrymen are suffering in case you havent noticed.

i forget about free markets other than the fact no one i listen to are market fundamentalists. many of america's market outcomes perform poorly to other countries which have planned laws protecting their workers. its of course free markets for you to go bankrupt and be deprived, and bailouts and welfare to fatten the fat cats pockets.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Capitalism has allowed more people to lift themselves out of poverty than any economic system in human history.

That's a fact sonny.
standards of living improved under slavery.

should we support that too?

btw poverty wouldnt have improved so much were it mostly for your favorite country china. the other side to that poverty coin is we are in a bubble and when it pops poverty will explode.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
zub talks about markets self correcting. the system has always failed poor workers here.

If it "fails poor workers" it's because the government intervention that gives disincentives for upward economic motion of "poor workers".

BTW, capitalism has lifted more people into better quality of life, whether they put in extra work or not, than any other system ever has.

To say slavery improved quality of life makes no sense. Compared to what? Slavery's been around since the dawn of civilization. It would still be around if it weren't for industrialization (technically it still happens, even if it isn't officially sanctioned). Nothing your guys suggest will fix anything, and will likely make slavery a necessity again, so I guess you are supporting slavery by attacking capitalism.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
If it "fails poor workers" it's because the government intervention that gives disincentives for upward economic motion of "poor workers".

BTW, capitalism has lifted more people into better quality of life, whether they put in extra work or not, than any other system ever has.

To say slavery improved quality of life makes no sense. Compared to what? Slavery's been around since the dawn of civilization. It would still be around if it weren't for industrialization (technically it still happens, even if it isn't officially sanctioned). Nothing your guys suggest will fix anything, and will likely make slavery a necessity again, so I guess you are supporting slavery by attacking capitalism.
Americans used to view capitalism as little different than slavery. but years of successful propaganda has pushed worker self determination below the surface. worker self determination and ending capitalism used to be the slogan of the republican party. standards of living rose under slavery just like they used to rise in america until 1973....but that shouldnt justify it.

No i dont think u can blame it on govt.

Capitalism is in a bubble and when it pops mass extinction for our race is on the table.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Hi im dennis kucinich i saved my town 300 million by not closing the public utility which created competition and prevented monopoly pricing from the lone private power supply
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
Americans used to view capitalism as little different than slavery. but years of successful propaganda has pushed worker self determination below the surface. worker self determination and ending capitalism used to be the slogan of the republican party. standards of living rose under slavery just like they used to rise in america until 1973....but that shouldnt justify it.

No i dont think u can blame it on govt.

Capitalism is in a bubble and when it pops mass extinction for our race is on the table.

You're still conflating corporatism and capitalism. I just use the word "capitalism" for ease, even if the actual standard definiton of the word doesn't exactly match what I'm talking about. Regardless, it's clear we don't agree on what particular words mean, so these little discussions of ours are merely a frivolity. It's nice to know that I mean enough to you that you mention me in your posts to get my attention.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
You're still conflating corporatism and capitalism. I just use the word "capitalism" for ease, even if the actual standard definiton of the word doesn't exactly match what I'm talking about. Regardless, it's clear we don't agree on what particular words mean, so these little discussions of ours are merely a frivolity. It's nice to know that I mean enough to you that you mention me in your posts to get my attention.
no im talking about capitalism.
 

rickyb

Well-Known Member
Your misinformed definition of capitalism.
one reason the right wing likes to distinguish between corporatism and capitalism because they can still defend capitalism. but when guys i listen to say were headed for a complete and total collapse they say its late capitalism and capitalism consuming itself not corporatism. sometimes they distinguish between the 2, but that doesnt mean corporatism wouldnt likewise consume everything including itself too.
 

zubenelgenubi

I'm a star
one reason the right wing likes to distinguish between corporatism and capitalism because they can still defend capitalism. but when guys i listen to say were headed for a complete and total collapse they say its late capitalism and capitalism consuming itself not corporatism. sometimes they distinguish between the 2, but that doesnt mean corporatism wouldnt likewise consume everything including itself too.

If you can't identify and accurately define the problems, you can't come up with good solutions. That is the drawback of collectivist groupthink. The fact that incompetent people can thrive and attain positions of power is a human issue, distinct from any particular economic structure. Capitalism is as prone, maybe even more so due to how easy it makes it for everyone to survive, to this problem as any other system. Communism/socialism has proven to make it easy for incompetent and malicious people to attain power, which is why that system fails much more quickly.
 
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