Immigration

[It will be fine]

Maybe an expanding economy that relies on paying illegal aliens wages below the rate that for which citizens will work shouldn't expand!

Interesting point, I'm not in favor of paying illegal immigrants sub-minimum wages. I am in favor of open immigration or guest worker programs that allow immigrant labor at a wage that is lower than it would take to get snotty Americans to do a job. Americans won't do a lot of the farm work that needs doing, they quit because it's hard.

 

[Fred's Myth]

maybe the fact that things have changed over 100 years. I don't mean this as a smart a** remark, I just mean that more has to be taken into account. We're quite a melting pot now.
Thanks for bearing with me, if you've made it this far. I guess I just had to get that out...

What have you, or your parents, done to repay America for the blessings you illegally took?
What have you, or you parents, done to make reparations to those you displaced, who were waiting their turn to immigrate legally?
What have you, or your parents, done to help your Homeland and fellow citizens prosper, so that illegally entering another country would no longer be necessary?
If you have done none of the above, you do not deserve to be an (U.S.of) American citizen.

Thanks, just had to get that out.

 

[It will be fine]

What have you, or your parents, done to repay America for the blessings you illegally took?
What have you, or you parents, done to make reparations to those you displaced, who were waiting their turn to immigrate legally?
What have you, or your parents, done to help your Homeland and fellow citizens prosper, so that illegally entering another country would no longer be necessary?
If you have done none of the above, you do not deserve to be an (U.S.of) American citizen.

Thanks, just had to get that out.

I have no idea what that reply is to, or what the discussion was, but I know if I could greatly increase the chance of prosperity for my kids by bending the law I'd take the chance. I'm not sure it's right to demonize illegal immigrants for taking the chance. Make it easy for people to work here legally and the issues go away. Work, pay a higher tax rate, be ineligible for social benefits, wait for citizenship, everybody wins.

 

[bottomups]

I can understand that, let's just forget about color then and take care of legal American citizens.

Europeans came here and slaughtered the Native American population and pretty much wiped out their way of life. Now their ancestors bitch about immigrants coming in and changing the status quo. Tough . What goes around comes around.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Europeans came here and slaughtered the Native American population and pretty much wiped out their way of life. Now their ancestors bitch about immigrants coming in and changing the status quo. Tough . What goes around comes around.

There ya go!

 

[vantexan]

Europeans came here and slaughtered the Native American population and pretty much wiped out their way of life. Now their ancestors bitch about immigrants coming in and changing the status quo. Tough . What goes around comes around.

Oh if you're going to be inaccurate at least get one thing right. It's their descendants who are bitching.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Interesting point, I'm not in favor of paying illegal immigrants sub-minimum wages. I am in favor of open immigration or guest worker programs that allow immigrant labor at a wage that is lower than it would take to get snotty Americans to do a job. Americans won't do a lot of the farm work that needs doing, they quit because it's hard.

Harder than the work a UPS Driver does?
Also, that will incentive inventors to create an automated solution.

It's hard being a logger with chainsaws, axes and a lot of manual labor.
There are big machines that took over that job.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Europeans came here and slaughtered the Native American population and pretty much wiped out their way of life. Now their ancestors bitch about immigrants coming in and changing the status quo. Tough . What goes around comes around.

We're a lot smarter and advanced that native Americans were.
Current invaders are uneducated and have little technology.
We can kick their asses .... so the invaders.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Harder than the work a UPS Driver does?
Also, that will incentive inventors to create an automated solution.

It's hard being a logger with chainsaws, axes and a lot of manual labor.
There are big machines that took over that job.

Yes much harder work than a UPS driver does. If they could replace all the manual labor in farming, they would have already.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Yes much harder than a UPS driver does. If they could replace all the manual labor in farming, they would have already.

Then pay them what it's worth.
A UPS driver costs over $60 an hour.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Then pay them what it's worth.

I agree, problem is these big produce companies are used to the fat profits they make off of immigrant workers.

 

[vantexan]

I agree, problem is these big produce companies are used to the fat profits they make off of immigrant workers.

Inaccurate.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Inaccurate.

Bro I live in the biggest ag state in the country. It's 100% accurate.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

I agree, problem is these big produce companies are used to the fat profits they make off of immigrant workers.

Or American consumers are use to cheap produce.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Or American consumers are use to cheap produce.

I really don't think that's the problem. It's been proven that it's more expensive to eat healthy fresh food vs processed fast food. Living here in Cali I see how these produce companies are profiting from what's essentially a necessity of life. Not to mention the various other industries that siphon profits from the produce industry as well. Everybody has their hand in this cookie jar.

 

[vantexan]

Bro I live in the biggest ag state in the country. It's 100% accurate.

Produce companies or farmers?

 

[MAKAVELI]

Produce companies or farmers?

Out here both. Produce companies, farmers, brokers, and trucking brokers, all live high off the hog.

 

[vantexan]

Out here both. Produce companies, farmers, brokers, and trucking brokers, all live high off the hog.

The vast majority of farms are family owned. With all the middle men involved to get produce into stores they'd have to charge considerably more to pay better. In spite of all the angry rhetoric out there the only illegals I want to see go are the criminals. No matter how we frame it illegals are everywhere doing jobs most Americans either won't do or in some cases would have to be paid more to do. I want a wall to slow the tide down, we're getting overwhelmed. But once it's up, and doubtful it'll ever be, we should whisk the criminal element out and make it clear to the rest if they break any law they're gone. People who are adamant about getting rid of all 11 million just haven't thought through the unintended consequences. Amnesty, but no citizenship. And as their children are born here and move on to better jobs and the rest age we can look at a guest worker program that would fill actual, proven needs. Everything we're doing now that taxes our resources, risks people's lives in the desert, and coddles criminals while flaunting Federal law, is ridiculous.

 

[MAKAVELI]

The vast majority of farms are family owned. With all the middle men involved to get produce into stores they'd have to charge considerably more to pay better. In spite of all the angry rhetoric out there the only illegals I want to see go are the criminals. No matter how we frame it illegals are everywhere doing jobs most Americans either won't do or in some cases would have to be paid more to do. I want a wall to slow the tide down, we're getting overwhelmed. But once it's up, and doubtful it'll ever be, we should whisk the criminal element out and make it clear to the rest if they break any law they're gone. People who are adamant about getting rid of all 11 million just haven't thought through the unintended consequences. Amnesty, but no citizenship. And as their children are born here and move on to better jobs and the rest age we can look at a guest worker program that would fill actual, proven needs. Everything we're doing now that taxes our resources, risks people's lives in the desert, and coddles criminals while flaunting Federal law, is ridiculous.

Vast majority of family farms out in Cali are making a killing. You just don't have a clue as to how ag is a big $ maker out here.

 

[vantexan]

Vast majority of family farms out in Cali are making a killing. You just don't have a clue as to how ag is a big $ maker out here.

Actually I do, it's easy to find on Google. There's also a labor shortage and farmers looking to get automated. And for the entire agricultural industry in California the profits are a little over $10 Billion annually. That's everyone from laborers to putting out finished products. And employs a hell of a lot of people. And because of the labor shortage wages have risen but Americans still won't work in the fields. Expect automated pickers at some point.