Immigration

moreluck

golden ticket member
Because that would be putting the horse before the cart.........oh wait a minute......that's how it's suppose to be.:)

Horse first, cart second.
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
This website gives you all kinds of information about immigration.

It makes it easy for you to get involved with electronic faxes and phone numbers at your fingertips. It also lets you know when important votes are coming up and the results of each Senator's vote.

You can actually be part of the solution and not get swept away like sheep.

The number of citizens contacting their representatives through this website was a factor when amnesty was voted down just yesterday.:thumbup1:

NUMBERS USA
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Immigration Bill Suffers a Big Setback
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070608/D8PKD2HO0.html
Let's hope we come up with something better!!:thumbup1:

Why don't we secure the border first then decide how everything else will work.

Just a thought.:cool:

I agree that the border should be tightened first. Anything else won't work until that is done. I refuse to call the proposal "Amnesty". Amnesty is gettting away with a crime without any type of punishment. These illegals will have to pay (literally) for their immigration status to be changed and it will costs thousands of dollars. And that doesn't include the fines which are also thousands of dollars. They will probably have to return to their countrys before recieving their documentation that states that their status has been changed from illegal to legal. Even if they end up not having to return to the countrys they came from they will still be paying out thousands of dollars. That doesn't sound like Amnesty to me.

I'm feeling the affects as if I was an illegal alien because my wife is one. We are currently in the process of changing her status so we've already handed over a couple thousand dollars to the INS and an immigration lawyer for her case and we aren't even close to being done. I'm more than happy to pay because I'm helping my wife but it is a pain. She'll have to return to her home country before she can come back and later call this country her home. Whether this Immigration Bill goes through or not is not important to me because either way the whole process is costing us allot of heart ache. Financially and emotionally. Amnesty? LOL. Not even close.
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
I agree that the border should be tightened first. Anything else won't work until that is done. I refuse to call the proposal "Amnesty". Amnesty is gettting away with a crime without any type of punishment. These illegals will have to pay (literally) for their immigration status to be changed and it will costs thousands of dollars. And that doesn't include the fines which are also thousands of dollars. They will probably have to return to their countrys before recieving their documentation that states that their status has been changed from illegal to legal. Even if they end up not having to return to the countrys they came from they will still be paying out thousands of dollars. That doesn't sound like Amnesty to me.

I'm feeling the affects as if I was an illegal alien because my wife is one. We are currently in the process of changing her status so we've already handed over a couple thousand dollars to the INS and an immigration lawyer for her case and we aren't even close to being done. I'm more than happy to pay because I'm helping my wife but it is a pain. She'll have to return to her home country before she can come back and later call this country her home. Whether this Immigration Bill goes through or not is not important to me because either way the whole process is costing us allot of heart ache. Financially and emotionally. Amnesty? LOL. Not even close.

Ok, call it what you want! Had this bill passed just how many of the illegals do you think would be getting in line to pay and follow the rules? :rolleyes:

Remember they've already broken the law at least once to get here. So let's be nice and say that 50% of them would act responsible, which would still leave several million here granted AMNESTY (paid no fines and did not return to his country) because they have not done what was required of them.

Oh, and by the way if that bill had passed, as soon as G.W. signed it the illegals become legal, typically you pay before you get out of jail in this case your status changes and you're relied upon to act like a responsible legal citizen.

How about all the immigrants waiting to become citizens LEGALLY?? Play by the rules and get screwed!! What does that tell future immigrants??

How about:
ATTRITION THROUGH ENFORCEMENT

Here's something about your friend Fred:)

Thompson's candidacy appears to present the most challenges for McCain. One of only three senators to endorse his candidacy when the lawmaker from Arizona sought the presidency in 2000, Thompson has been basking in media attention even as McCain has been the subject of attacks from the party base on the compromise immigration legislation he helped shape. Though the two shared remarkably similar voting records in the Senate, Thompson has assailed the immigration bill, which many Republicans dislike. He has also worked hard to convince social conservatives, who remain suspicious of McCain, that he is strongly against abortion.

For the whole story
Defections to Fred Thompson Pose a Major threat to McCain

I do feel for you and your illegal wife and that must be a real challenge. Good luck!! However I'm also passionate about this topic and the future of our Country.:cool:
 
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wkmac

Well-Known Member
Brazen,
I understand on the one hand about putting up a fence to keep the illegals from getting in and there are pros and cons to whether it would work. If you come home and a waterline is burst and the house flooded, you shutoff the water to stop the flow and then you bail out the water. Simplistic but it's a point none the less.

What does bother me about the wall/fence harkens back to the cold war years when this President we had during the period made a speech and had the gonads to tell the leader of another empire to "Tear Down This Wall!" That wall was built to actually keep people in and prevent them from escaping to what they considered a terrible life that they were being forced by law to live. In time, the wall did come down with great joy and happiness from peoples everywhere.

Yes a wall could stop certain people from entering this country but it can also be used to prevent people from leaving as well. History has proven so many times in the past that people on a whim are stupid enough to not think things through and then in the future elect someone who becomes their worse nightmare. We think we are to smart and better than that but so did many of those other folks too who made the tragic history we read of today.

We stand and tell the world via another empire to tear down the wall and then we go and build one ourselves. What does that say about us?
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Ok, call it what you want! Had this bill passed just how many of the illegals do you think would be getting in line to pay and follow the rules? :rolleyes:

Based on the conversations my wife and I have had with many of them I feel comfortable in saying that most of them will come forward. The ones that won't are the minority that have been commiting crimes, in addition to crossing the border, such as theft, drunk driving, murder, etc.. So in a way...the bill would weed out the serious criminals from the the ones that just came here to work. There will also be a few here and there will not come foward due to mistrust of the govt. Some feel that they are being tricked into "comming out of the shadows" just so that INS can deport them.

Remember they've already broken the law at least once to get here. So let's be nice and say that 50% of them would act responsible, which would still leave several million here granted AMNESTY (paid no fines and did not return to his country) because they have not done what was required of them.

Yes, everyone knows they broke the law to get here but over 90% did so to work. We are not talking bout an army people that are just here to cause trouble. So, I must say that that 50% assumption is way off. And what ever the small percentage ends up being, and it will be very small, they will not have amnesty. It's not amnesty if they aren't legalized. They will still be subject to deportation if caught. And it's like I said above. Those that don't come forward will be mostly the "bad apples" and it will be easier to catch and deport them as long as people such as the ACLU stay out of the way.

Oh, and by the way if that bill had passed, as soon as G.W. signed it the illegals become legal, typically you pay before you get out of jail in this case your status changes and you're relied upon to act like a responsible legal citizen.

It's highly unreasonable to send them home or to jail just so we can say that they were punished properly. Especially since most came here to work. It's funny to me because everyone is so passionate about getting rid of these people because they broke the law just to be able to work, yet, no one seems to have a problem with all the welfare scum we have here in the country already. What's there excuse?! My wife risked her life by crossing a desert and dealing with "Coyotes" that rape their "cargo" and sometimes kill them, not to mention worrying about the crooked Mexican Army, just to be able to get here to work and we have people that live within walking distance of jobs, yet, they supposedly can't find a job? LOL.

How about all the immigrants waiting to become citizens LEGALLY?? Play by the rules and get screwed!! What does that tell future immigrants??

They got screwed in 1986 too. The problem I have with the immigration system is that it obviously doesn't allow for enough lower tier laborers to come in. I say obviously because that's what most of the illegals are doing. My wife could get screwed. We are trying to fix her status without waiting on the current immigration bill to pass. If it was to pass while she is in Mexico waiting to come back then that would be a little frustrating. It's hard to decide whether ot not to wait ot press ahead on our own. The old schoolway. LOL.

I do feel for you and your illegal wife and that must be a real challenge. Good luck!! However I'm also passionate about this topic and the future of our Country.:cool:

I must say I agree but I don't think that allowing the ones that are already here to stay and work is going to destroy this country. I belive that the border must be secured to keep more from comming in. Workers or not there will be too many if they continue to stream across. Plus, you never know who is piggy back riding in with them. Terrorists? I honestly believe that the true threat to this country, as far as immigrants are concerned, are the legal immigrants. Our govt. let's too many people in here legally that seem to have an agenda against this country. Terrorists that come here legally and over stay their visas, therefore being illegal, are the ones that concern me.
 

tieguy

Banned
OK, whether real or imagine, just forget that for the moment because here's the reality. The ultra rightees boy Bush is in reality a change agent and is working for the other side. Proof? Well Ted Kennedy's agenda in front and center in the legislation (this :censored2: happens all the time to fool the masses)and whose out here selling the whole thing with all his might? None other than Captain Wonderful from Texas himself and he's has his storebought conservative spokesman Tony Snow all week hitting the talk shows that service the repub. base trying his might to get the masses to drink the coolaid.

I really don't think its all that odd. Bush has always been more of a middle of the road guy then a right wing neo con. Bush is running his agenda not Kennedys.

As for the democrats well what can I say they have always lead the troops from the rear. :thumbup1:
 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
Berlin Wall / Border fence

Cold War / War on Terror


Communism / Islomofacism


Anti Jew / Anti American and western world


WWII,Nazi Germany& The Japanese/ Afghanistan's Taliban & Iraq's Sadam, Al Qaeda


The names have changed but as we already know, history has a way of repeating itself.

Unfortunately others make it so we have to secure our borders, it's not the only solution but it's a start.

How many more 911's can we afford??

What does it say about us if we don't protect us??

As I've quoted before:

"The courageous heroes on the world scene are not those men and women in poor countries who have the energy, the intelligence, and the skills to escape to a rich country but rather those remaining with their people. Rather than focus on improving conditions for themselves and their families by emigrating, they strive to raise the conditions for whole communities." by Roy Beck

If this were common place the need for a fence/wall may not be necessary.

 

brazenbrown

Well-Known Member
I must say I agree but I don't think that allowing the ones that are already here to stay and work is going to destroy this country. I belive that the border must be secured to keep more from comming in. Workers or not there will be too many if they continue to stream across. Plus, you never know who is piggy back riding in with them. Terrorists? I honestly believe that the true threat to this country, as far as immigrants are concerned, are the legal immigrants. Our govt. let's too many people in here legally that seem to have an agenda against this country. Terrorists that come here legally and over stay their visas, therefore being illegal, are the ones that concern me.

You're right!! I don't think it will destroy the Country either until the next 12 million sneak in and want the same treatment. Don't you see that we're setting a bad precedent here? We're condoning the breaking of the law. Whether they claim they're here for work or whatever.

What if you had a fake ID and got by the guard shack at a UPS facility, made into a center that was down drivers that day because of sick calls? You find a sup and in his moment of weakness he says to take this package car over here and he'll give you $30 to go deliver 70 stops.

You get my point? Boy would the union have a field day with this one!:lol:

Again, we're putting the cart before the horse. First we secure the border, stop the inflow now!! We must invoke severe penalties for company's hiring illegal immigrants and make them hire legal citizens.

The legal ones are not the problem. Yes, there were problems prior to 911 and yes some over stayed their visas and even learned to fly planes. However, Homeland Security and the FBI and other government agencies have really put a stop to that. The proof...we have not had another attack. It's not like they haven't tried either, but in most cases they've been identified prior to blowing us up.

If a terrorist attack is going to happen again on American soil it will be from someone already here or from someone that can just waltz across the border when he feels like it.

The terrorist element is not the only reason to put an end to illegals crossing the border. For people to assimilate into a society it needs to be done in a way that shows respect for that soceity and in a controlled and measured way with legal immigration rules.:thumbup1:
 

UPS Lifer

Well-Known Member
A friend talked to me about the parallel of a bird feeder to immigration.
I just recently noticed this similarity.

When I moved to Sedona I had to cut some trees down, so to get the birds back I added a bird feeder. The birds came back. Originally the food lasted about a week. Then it got down to 2 days. So to keep from filling it up so often I added another feeder. Same scenario...1 week down to 2 days.

In the past 2 years I have added 3 more feeders and a 25 lb block that sits on the ground. I went from a 10 lb bag of feed replacing once a month to a 50 lb bag every 3 weeks. We have 25 to fifty birds at any given time. I also added a bird bath. Along with the birds came the crap!!!!!

I finally had to stop feeding the birds, there were too many....and guess what - they all went away. None of them stayed!!!

Do you see where I am going with this?

It is real simple....stop the services - finger print the illegals and create a step ladder fine process that will equate to confinement for the illegals and thier employers. If we deport them...deport them to the furthest point from our country. They will stop coming. None of our other laws need to be changed and we probably won't have to add a fence. It won't be needed!
 

hoser

Industrial Slob
brazenbrown said:
You see, it's not a racist thing or a I hate immigrant's thing. It's a number's thing (too many people, too fast) and when you come to this Country Illegally, break the law and feel entitled to have anchor babies, smuggle drugs, clog up our emergency rooms, create over crowding problems in our schools, don't pay your fair share of taxes and send home billions of American dollars, and then have the nerve to hold up a Mexican flag like this is freaking Mexico.. that's just not cool in fact it's loco!!:w00t:

If we don't control the way this is going then we will just end up another poor third world country... Then maybe we'll have to migrate somewhere else if there's any place left.:bored:

USA is a Mosaik IMO. They say Canada is, and I don't see much difference between the integration of immigrants in these cultures.

The Mosaik needs some time to get it's crap together (too many people Illegal and Legal too fast) so it can remain a beautiful and desirable Country for many years to come.:thumbup1:

hey, i never said you were anti-immigrant, xenophobic, etc. as the grandson of a Belorussian refugee, you can't find anyone more pro-immigration than I. I just believe the best solution for (legal) immigration is to do nothing. They'll take care of themselves. Saying that they should speak english is absurd; it's in their best interest to speak english. The reason why you have some groups of immigrants having issues integrating is because of the good ol' USA standard of suburbanization. Guaranteed that if LA wasn't as suburbanized, many of the issues would go away (just like how the 911 terrorists hid so well because they lived in private gated suburbs--ironically designed for security).

Of course, the whole illegal thing just skews things more. Everyone seems so shocked by the underground economy number (that 40% of people work without paying taxes), and that number is misleading due to the spin "primarily due to illegals". You pay granny cash for her to make a quilt, she's apart of that stat. Just as much as you pay the kid mowing the lawn cash or the 4th generation Californian cash to build your deck on the weekend. Not to mention that tracing the underground economy is friend'n difficult if not impossible.

I hate seeing these illegal Mexicans used as a scapegoat for all of these problems. The USA is a strong nation that has done well under any difficulty (yes, including the century-long tradition of illegal Mexican immigration!) Regardless what happens, not much will change, despite what Wolf Blizer or Lou Dobbs may decry.
 

area43

Well-Known Member
hey, i never said you were anti-immigrant, xenophobic, etc. as the grandson of a Belorussian refugee, you can't find anyone more pro-immigration than I. I just believe the best solution for (legal) immigration is to do nothing. They'll take care of themselves. Saying that they should speak english is absurd; it's in their best interest to speak english. The reason why you have some groups of immigrants having issues integrating is because of the good ol' USA standard of suburbanization. Guaranteed that if LA wasn't as suburbanized, many of the issues would go away (just like how the 911 terrorists hid so well because they lived in private gated suburbs--ironically designed for security).

Of course, the whole illegal thing just skews things more. Everyone seems so shocked by the underground economy number (that 40% of people work without paying taxes), and that number is misleading due to the spin "primarily due to illegals". You pay granny cash for her to make a quilt, she's apart of that stat. Just as much as you pay the kid mowing the lawn cash or the 4th generation Californian cash to build your deck on the weekend. Not to mention that tracing the underground economy is friend'n difficult if not impossible.

I hate seeing these illegal Mexicans used as a scapegoat for all of these problems. The USA is a strong nation that has done well under any difficulty (yes, including the century-long tradition of illegal Mexican immigration!) Regardless what happens, not much will change, despite what Wolf Blizer or Lou Dobbs may decry.
Good Post, hoser. Why dont they lay off the hard working mexicans and go after these lazy ass welfare people.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
Good Post, hoser. Why dont they lay off the hard working mexicans and go after these lazy ass welfare people.

I agree. As I'm delivering in the projects and I see so many able bodied adults sitting around getting drunk in the middle of the day I can't help wonder what went wrong when their parents, if they ever knew them, were raising them. How could so many people actually think that it's ok to live off the government? Who do they think they are fooling when they say they can't find a job? Are they taught to think that is a good way of life? It amazes me. The sad thing is that people seem to except this. Everyone ignores it or dismisses it as "normal." Yet, when people from another country risk their lives and criminalize themselves just to come here and work everyone has a fit. Yes, I realize they are "illegal" but at least they are willing to put themselves in that position in order to work and support themselves and their familys. Meanwhile....the scum that infests the welfare ranks can't seem to make it to the job services office. That is until it's time to re-up their unemployment status. But then again...I hear that can be done over the phone now. So now they don't even need to leave their govt. house at all.
 

hoser

Industrial Slob
I agree. As I'm delivering in the projects and I see so many able bodied adults sitting around getting drunk in the middle of the day I can't help wonder what went wrong when their parents, if they ever knew them, were raising them. How could so many people actually think that it's ok to live off the government?
These guys didn't have parents. I never saw many juvinelle delinquents with supportive parents and a strong family.


Don't knock on affordable housing, however. A few of my professors in university say that they couldn't be where they are if it weren't for affordable housing.
 

Overpaid Union Thug

Well-Known Member
These guys didn't have parents. I never saw many juvinelle delinquents with supportive parents and a strong family.


Don't knock on affordable housing, however. A few of my professors in university say that they couldn't be where they are if it weren't for affordable housing.

The ones that do have parent's really don't. They are living with the mentality that the govt, and maybe society as a whole, owes them something. That the govt. should be taking care of them. Because of that mentality they belive that basics in life that traditionaly were taught by the parents are to be left up to the schools and and govt. programs. So many lower income, and no income, familys send their kids off to kindergarden and they aren't even ready. That didn't happen as much, if at all, when I was a kid. Parent's today (and this can apply to all tax brackets too but is more common among lower income familys) will blame the govt for not letting their toddler into "Head Start" for the reason that the can't even count to 5 or say their some of their ABC's or colors when they start school.

Those professors were probably referring to the days that they were still in college. That is a little more understandable. The people I'm talking about aren't in college. Most of the people I'm talking about don't even have job ambitions. Let alone college ambitions.
 

tieguy

Banned
I sneak across the border.

I have a baby with free health care.

I then have an advocate fighting to keep me here because I cannot be seperated from my child and his illegally gotten citizenship.

Its a hell of a racket creating more liberal voting democrats that will continue to vote to screw this country up.
 
A

Alex Jones

Guest
Bush is leading the charge of those "liberal" democrats. He likes the cheap labor. He also likes taking away our rights, nation building and huge budget deficits. Vote Ron Paul. A true conservative.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Bush is leading the charge of those "liberal" democrats. He likes the cheap labor. He also likes taking away our rights, nation building and huge budget deficits. Vote Ron Paul. A true conservative.

Hey Alex, is Ron Paul paying you per post to come here? I like Ron too but geez man, give it a rest!

Even I'm getting tired of this.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
I happen to be reading an op-ed piece on another website and the writter was making a point concerning Nazi Germany's gov't in comparison to Stalin's Soviet Union. It was the left/right thing but the reality is they are both the same in authoritarian rule but that's another story.

Anyway, in the piece was a link to the 1928' Nazi party platform provided at a Yale website. It has application to the thread subject of immigration as you'll see but as I read it I saw apects that you could compare to both our major political parties today here in America. As Spock would say, "FASCINATING!"

Doesn't take long but worth the read if you get the chance. And how do you see this? Any comparison's? None at all? Just curious!

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/nca_v4menu.asp
 
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