Immigration

[UPS Lifer]

That is wishfull thinking. I'm all for the fence but until then they will not stop comming if their kids can't go to school and if they can't get govt. benefits. The percentage of illegals recieving govt. bebefits is much lower than people think.

Big Arrow....You forgot to take away the jobs and the housing. If we do not provide housing or jobs they will not come. Don't forget we are talking about ILLEGAL aliens. We are not talking about people that are here with valid work permits or "green cards". If we need more workers than we should increase the VALID work permits.

I will go out on a limb and say that as far as I am concerned anyone who enters this country illegally is a criminal and should be treated as such.

I guess you have to live close to the border to really see the dramatic affects it has....and we are not just talking about Mexicans here. Go to Monterey Park (I grew up there). It is located right next to East Los Angeles. You can't even read the signs unless you know Chinese!. What a slap in the face to America. I don't belong in the city I grew up in.

These people DO NOT CARE about assimilating into the American way of life. I am talking about all illegal aliens. Moreluck would'nt have to have a tag line about pushing 1 for English if they did care.

Think about it....Why are they sending their American earned money back to another country?????


Sorry...Anyone who coddles an illegal (criminal) alien must have first hand ties to them to stand up for these criminals!!! Human Rights Bla Bla...What about the Rights of American Citizens.

Not that I have a position on this topic

 

[tieguy]

Big Arrow....You forgot to take away the jobs and the housing. If we do not provide housing or jobs they will not come. Don't forget we are talking about ILLEGAL aliens. We are not talking about people that are here with valid work permits or "green cards". If we need more workers than we should increase the VALID work permits.

I will go out on a limb and say that as far as I am concerned anyone who enters this country illegally is a criminal and should be treated as such.

I don't think you're going out on a limb. There has to be control of our borders. It would be nice to live in a happy happy joy joy world where anyone can travel anywhere they want without restrictions. However september 11th changed that possibility forever. Protecting ourselves against the terrorist threat requires we secure our borders. There should be consequences for anyone caught sneaking across our borders.

 

[area43]

I sneak across the border.

I have a baby with free health care.

I then have an advocate fighting to keep me here because I cannot be seperated from my child and his illegally gotten citizenship.

Its a hell of a racket creating more liberal voting democrats that will continue to vote to screw this country up.

I agree, I, area 43, due to lack of time will(gamble) post a reponse to the last post on the thread(without reading the whole thread). I know this is a wreckless practice on my part. I say this because I posted earlier in this thread a response to hoser before getting all the info(read all threads).lol BAU, no need to worry.

 

[SeniorGeek]

My favorite phrase:

...only very small groups of people (sadists, megalomaniacs, and neocons) get satisfaction at the pain of others.

I wanted to tie this to another thread on BrownCafe.

I could not decide whether to relate this to the poll about the word "discipline", or the post by osustrident that claims the term "neocon" is used by anti-Semites in reference to Jewish Republicans.

Which would be funniest?

 

[Sammie]

Our culture is changing and so is our country. I don't especially like where they're going sometimes, but there it is.

I'm not crazy about parents who put a TV and a computer in the bedrooms of their 4 and 5 year olds so they won't have to deal with them so much, but that's not about to change. That shift in family life is hardly unusual.

One of my friend's daughters stayed with me after the birth of her child. I brought her and the baby home from the hospital and the first thing the new "Mom" did was get the car seat out of the car, strap the baby in it, set it on a coffee table facing the TV, turned the TV on and walked away. She gave the baby a bottle now and then but the TV entertained the child while they stayed with me. Not unusual behavior, says other mothers and teachers I know.

And every couple of months we hear about some poor little person who was done in by mom or dad. I'm horrified at how self absorbed people are becoming, but what are you gonna do?

And immigration. Do we let them stay? Deport them? Punish them? Do nothing? We depend on them but we also resent them.

There are roughly 12 million illegals here. Too many to deport. Too many involved in our economy. And let's face it - they're not going anywhere.

Our proposed "amnesty" program includes a 13 year process that includes a $5000 fine per person, one must learn English and the head of every household has to go back home (leaving family and job here) and prepare for his green card.

They must return home to make it "fair" for those who are waiting in line to come here legally, and some have been "legally" waiting for close to 30 years...which is why it's much quicker to hop the border! Why hasn't someone streamlined the nightmare for legal immigration?

Back in the day, early sections of the east cost held groups of immigrants who spoke only Italian, German, Polish, etc. But as time went on, they were absorbed into the American culture. Hopefully this too will pass and these new members will assimilate into our culture. I hope. (But I'm still making my kid take Spanish all thru high school just in case!)

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big Arrow....You forgot to take away the jobs and the housing. If we do not provide housing or jobs they will not come. Don't forget we are talking about ILLEGAL aliens. We are not talking about people that are here with valid work permits or "green cards". If we need more workers than we should increase the VALID work permits.

They will still come. There aren't as many illegals getting free housing as you think. Yes, even one illegal recieving free housing is too many but it's not like they are all recieving govt. housing or any other type of benefits. They are a small minority.

I will go out on a limb and say that as far as I am concerned anyone who enters this country illegally is a criminal and should be treated as such.

Even though my wife is one I still agree with that. But I don't think they should be rounded up and treated like animals and deported unless they are raping, robbing, stealing, etc. It's just silly and highly unpractical to think we can deport them all. Fines are the perfect punishment.

I guess you have to live close to the border to really see the dramatic affects it has....and we are not just talking about Mexicans here. Go to Monterey Park (I grew up there). It is located right next to East Los Angeles. You can't even read the signs unless you know Chinese!. What a slap in the face to America. I don't belong in the city I grew up in.

This has been going on since the founding of this country. There were whole areas of citys, and still are, where most of the people primarily spoke their native languages. They would gradually learn to speak English and use it when the time came. As far as the pressing one for English goes....it's not like anyone is being asked to do manual labor for Christ's sake! It's just pushing a botton.

These people DO NOT CARE about assimilating into the American way of life. I am talking about all illegal aliens. Moreluck would'nt have to have a tag line about pushing 1 for English if they did care.

I used to think that too until I found myself working with hundreds of them in a factory years back. It's not true at all. Granted...there are a few out of any group of them that don't care but most, that I have met, would love to "assimilate" but there is a problem. Not everyone's definition of assimilating is the same.

Think about it....Why are they sending their American earned money back to another country?????

Don't think for a second that legal immigrants don't send money back to their familys. It's mostly the immigrants that come from poor countrys but believe me they all do it.

Sorry...Anyone who coddles an illegal (criminal) alien must have first hand ties to them to stand up for these criminals!!! Human Rights Bla Bla...What about the Rights of American Citizens.

I guess I have first hand ties to them since I married once but my attitude about illegals changed greatly before I even met her. I started working in a factory where just about everyone in the plant was an illegal. Before going to work there I probably sounded like everyone else. I looked at them totally different but once I got to know some of them I slowly started to form this thing called compassion. Before my attitude about them changed I would always point out that illegals were comming over here and committing more crimes such as rape, murder, theft, whatever, but once I learned that they were in the minority it actually pissed me off because most of them aren't like that.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Big Arrow thanks for your candid remarks. Another great thing about America... We can have discussions like this and learn from one another.

You talk about factories....I guess that is another upstream fix that needs to be pursued vigorously. It may be pie in the sky to catch the individuals that employ illegals but we need to do more to prosecute those companies and businesses that knowingly hire illegal aliens.

I used the word criminal to emphasis a point, but don't think for a second I would ever want to see these people treated like animals.

One thing that makes me mad as hell is seeing rallies on TV and watching flags from other countries waving all over. Again a slap in the face for all American citizens!

It is darn frustrating that our government cannot agree on immigration reform. Something needs to be done.

On the news tonight in AZ, they showed us the "Virtual Fence" that is going on line. These towers have sophisticated cameras pointing in all directions that can "see" 28 miles. Some US citizens are up in arms about this because of "Big Brother" can watch them too!

This is a complicated mess that is highly emotional. But someone needs to start now to fix it.

 

[tieguy]

I guess I have first hand ties to them since I married once but my attitude about illegals changed greatly before I even met her. I started working in a factory where just about everyone in the plant was an illegal. Before going to work there I probably sounded like everyone else. I looked at them totally different but once I got to know some of them I slowly started to form this thing called compassion. Before my attitude about them changed I would always point out that illegals were comming over here and committing more crimes such as rape, murder, theft, whatever, but once I learned that they were in the minority it actually pissed me off because most of them aren't like that.

Nothing wrong with compassion. I respect your willingness to help those less fortunate. I think the burden of helping the oppressed of the entire central and south american regions is too great. We should control our borders and take on the task of fixing our own poor before we move on to the rest of the world.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Nothing wrong with compassion. I respect your willingness to help those less fortunate. I think the burden of helping the oppressed of the entire central and south american regions is too great. We should control our borders and take on the task of fixing our own poor before we move on to the rest of the world.

I want the borders secured too but I look at helping the poor differently. I look at it as the Mexicans and some of the Central Americans as fixing themselves. They are taking the initiative to improve themselves by risking their lives and criminalizing themselves to do so. We don't need to fix our own poor. They need to get off their butts and fix themselves. If millions of illegals can make it here (some die trying) and find a job then there is no excuse for an able bodied American to be jobless. When I first went to apply to work in the factory where I met my wife at I had to drive by one of the local housing projects in that town to get there. It was the middle of the day sometime in February and everyone there seemed to be outside getting drunk and living it up. When I got to the office it was full of Mexicans. None of the people I saw lounging around in the housing projects seemed to be able to make it over to the HR office even though it was advertized all over town that they were hiring. I don't feel sorry for those people at all. I would much rather help illegals than a bunch of parasites.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Nothing wrong with compassion. I respect your willingness to help those less fortunate. I think the burden of helping the oppressed of the entire central and south american regions is too great. We should control our borders and take on the task of fixing our own poor before we move on to the rest of the world.

Tie
I have to agree with you. We have to fix the problems that involve U S citizens. Our congress has been taken away from other legislation to spend time on this problem. I also have no compassion for people that don't want to help themselves but that is still a U S problem that needs our attention. We need to get to the root of that problem and improve our education system to be on par with other parts of the world. We need to improve health care and our social security system. I am not trying to open a can of worms here. The can is already open!

Big Arrow used the word parasite. I feel that ILLEGALs are Parasites taxing American services, including housing, police and fire and especially our health care system.

My wife was in the temporary staffing industry in California for most of her career. She can attest to the fact that a lot of businesses that hire ILLEGALs are owned by folks that came to America the same way. These folks perpetuate the system! The rallies nationwide show how they stick together as a group. In numbers you have power? It really angers me to think that ILLEGALs can come into our country and demand we take care of them and give them citizenship.

Why arn't the ILLEGALs trying to improve the conditions in their own country so that they don't have to come here????

If the tables were turned and we were crossing into another country illegally such as Mexico, you would find Americans rotting in jail.

We are only welcome in other countries because we spend or give that country money? If we were asking for assistance the borders would be locked up tight! What is wrong with this picture?

 

[Sammie]

Our prisons are at the bursting point + Illegals need jobs

=

The military needs soldiers...

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big Arrow[/B] used the word parasite. I feel that ILLEGALs are Parasites taxing American services, including housing, police and fire and especially our health care system.

Again...those people are in the minority. Most illegals don't receive a dime from the govt. As far as housing, police, fire, and health care the ladder is the only one that is a legit complaint but the point I can use to counter it is that there are more Americans going to into emergency rooms without insurance than illegals. Then add the welfare parasites that are comming in there with their govt health care plans and all you end up with is an emergency room full of lazy Americans and a few illegal, but hard working, Mexicans. As far as housing, police, and fire goes...it's very rare for an illegal to recieve free housing. Police and fire protection sure isn't a legit complaint either becuase I've been listening to America complain that we don't have enough since I was a kid.

Why arn't the ILLEGALs trying to improve the conditions in their own country so that they don't have to come here????

Mexico is the most corrupt country in the history of the world. The things my wife tell me about are unbelievable. I hear people here complain about our govt, our politicians, being crooked but compared to Mexico they are saints. Those few that are trying to better their conditions down there are met with the harshest punishments. I believe that one day the U.S. is going to have to step in. My wife even made the comment one day that she wishes the U.S. would invade Mexico because it would be better to live there afterwards than now.

If the tables were turned and we were crossing into another country illegally such as Mexico, you would find Americans rotting in jail.

We are only welcome in other countries because we spend or give that country money? If we were asking for assistance the borders would be locked up tight! What is wrong with this picture?

I think it's a good thing that we are a country of compassion but even with my stance on illegals being the way it is I still must say that we need to tighten up our borders. I like being kind but I don't want it to be confused with weakness. That is what will happen if we don't take control of our borders.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Our prisons are at the bursting point + Illegals need jobs

=

The military needs soldiers...

That is a terrible idea. Letting the illegals that are in prison join the military I mean. But...letting the illegals that aren't involved in crimes other than crossing the border could be allowed to join. I think that would be a good idea. It would work the same way it works now with the legal immigrants. Not all jobs would be open to them. Such as high security jobs and they wouldn't be able to become officers. I personally know plenty of them that would jump at the chance to join the military if it would earn them green cards and later citizenship. One of my best friends from when I was in the military was a Mexican national and she already had a green card so she joined up and became a citizen after about two years. I don't see why it wouldn't work for illegals too. I mean...the ones that are here just wanting to work and not causing trouble would work out just as well as my friend did. The military needs people with allot of initiative. In my opinion the illegals have that. But not the scum that are comming here and going straight to prison.

 

[Sammie]

That is a terrible idea. Letting the illegals that are in prison join the military I mean. But...letting the illegals that aren't involved in crimes other than crossing the border could be allowed to join. I think that would be a good idea. It would work the same way it works now with the legal immigrants. Not all jobs would be open to them. The military needs people with allot of initiative. In my opinion the illegals have that. But not the scum that are comming here and going straight to prison.

Big Arrow,

As far as filling our military ranks, I was referring to US citizens in jail who aren't savage criminals, not the illegals that we have to imprison. Somebody serving a light sentence for not paying a few traffic tickets, as an example.

And I don't think your wife is far off the mark as far as us helping Mexico out, if we weren't just a little stretched out in the Middle East.

As you may know, UPS stopped delivering ground service to Mexico several years ago. I worked in customer service before, during and after that time. Basically, whatever we shipped south of the border just plain vanished!
I second your comment on how corrupt it is. I remember calling down there and the conversations I had with the
UPS centers, the customs officials, the brokers, etc.
Man. That was a trip....

 

[brazenbrown]

Tie
I have to agree with you. We have to fix the problems that involve U S citizens. Our congress has been taken away from other legislation to spend time on this problem. I also have no compassion for people that don't want to help themselves but that is still a U S problem that needs our attention. We need to get to the root of that problem and improve our education system to be on par with other parts of the world. We need to improve health care and our social security system. I am not trying to open a can of worms here. The can is already open!

Big Arrow used the word parasite. I feel that ILLEGALs are Parasites taxing American services, including housing, police and fire and especially our health care system.

My wife was in the temporary staffing industry in California for most of her career. She can attest to the fact that a lot of businesses that hire ILLEGALs are owned by folks that came to America the same way. These folks perpetuate the system! The rallies nationwide show how they stick together as a group. In numbers you have power? It really angers me to think that ILLEGALs can come into our country and demand we take care of them and give them citizenship.

Why arn't the ILLEGALs trying to improve the conditions in their own country so that they don't have to come here????

If the tables were turned and we were crossing into another country illegally such as Mexico, you would find Americans rotting in jail.

We are only welcome in other countries because we spend or give that country money? If we were asking for assistance the borders would be locked up tight! What is wrong with this picture?

As I've quoted at least twice before...It takes a hell of a lot more effort to start a move to fix your own Country than running away from the problem does.

Would if all 12 to 20 million illegals banded together and went back to Mexico and paraded down their streets and offered their solutions??

Civil war...Maybe...Make a difference...Hell ya!!Change Mexico...Maybe..
Worth trying...YOU BET YOUR ASS!!!

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Big Arrow,

As far as filling our military ranks, I was referring to US citizens in jail who aren't savage criminals, not the illegals that we have to imprison. Somebody serving a light sentence for not paying a few traffic tickets, as an example.

And I don't think your wife is far off the mark as far as us helping Mexico out, if we weren't just a little stretched out in the Middle East.

As you may know, UPS stopped delivering ground service to Mexico several years ago. I worked in customer service before, during and after that time. Basically, whatever we shipped south of the border just plain vanished!
I second your comment on how corrupt it is. I remember calling down there and the conversations I had with the
UPS centers, the customs officials, the brokers, etc.
Man. That was a trip....

My wife likes to buy clothes and ship them down to her parents and younger sisters. We use the U.S. Post Office because UPS won't go all the way down to where my wife is from. Only DHL delivers in that area but I refuse to let my wife use them. The problem with the Post Office is that we can only ship priority mail and it has to be within certain dimensions or it's outrageously expsensive. So, we pay for priority mail but once it get's to the border it goes into the Mexican Post Office's hands. Once that happens any time commitments made by our Post Office goes out the window. EVERYTHING is corrupted down there. Even the schools. My wife was expelled from her Middle School and her High School for her religion and had to go to school way over in the next town both times. When their Post Office finally does decide to deliver packages they charge an extra waud of cash on the side to deliver it. It is rediculous. The cops, army, government, EVERYTHING is corrupt.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

As I've quoted at least twice before...It takes a hell of a lot more effort to start a move to fix your own Country than running away from the problem does.

Would if all 12 to 20 million illegals banded together and went back to Mexico and paraded down their streets and offered their solutions??

Civil war...Maybe...Make a difference...Hell ya!!Change Mexico...Maybe..
Worth trying...YOU BET YOUR ASS!!!

I hate to say it but didn't most of our European ancestors "run away" from their problems in order to settle here? The only difference is that the people they ran from followed them here and they had to revolt to avoid living under the conditions that they were running away from in the first place. I'm all for another revolution down there in Mexico. But the problem is that maybe they are tired of revolution for the time being. This whole continent was ravaged by Europeans and most of the countrys that were conquered by the Spanish eventually won their independenc. The amount of land and lives the Mexican "Native Americans" lost is second only to the Native Americans that lived in the U.S. and Canada. I think they are content with surviving right now. Another revolution will have to involve the U.S. and maybe the millions of illegals that are comming here can play a huge role in that. I hope so anyway.

 

[Sammie]

My wife likes to buy clothes and ship them down to her parents and younger sisters. We use the U.S. Post Office because UPS won't go all the way down to where my wife is from. Only DHL delivers in that area but I refuse to let my wife use them. The problem with the Post Office is that we can only ship priority mail and it has to be within certain dimensions or it's outrageously expsensive. So, we pay for priority mail but once it get's to the border it goes into the Mexican Post Office's hands. Once that happens any time commitments made by our Post Office goes out the window. EVERYTHING is corrupted down there. Even the schools. My wife was expelled from her Middle School and her High School for her religion and had to go to school way over in the next town both times. When their Post Office finally does decide to deliver packages they charge an extra waud of cash on the side to deliver it. It is rediculous. The cops, army, government, EVERYTHING is corrupt.

That's why I feel it futile for the Mexican people themselves
to try and make a change. They'd probably be shot on site for instigation. You can bet Mexico will be something else we'll clean up in the future...


When I was a single mom I also worked nights and weekends at a local K Mart. This was back in the '80's, mind you.
Sometimes our "Blue Light Specials" consisted of racks of clothing with each article reduced to a buck or less. Two little Spanish ladies often came in and bought up everything on the racks to send down to family members in Mexico. Even back then they said that sometimes the clothing was received, sometimes not. How sad it that...

 

[Dis In Franchised]

They have broken the law which makes them criminals & I say SEND THEM ALL BACK & give me back MY Country that I LOVE

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

They have broken the law which makes them criminals & I say SEND THEM ALL BACK & give me back MY Country that I LOVE

Yeah...send 12 million people back to Mexico. Good idea. Very realistic. LOL! Did that sound as sarcastic as I entended?