Influenza And Mask Science

[zubenelgenubi]

look at your responses in the conversation. im not saying youre crazy.

You "aren't saying" a lot of the things that you are saying. You just compared me to a character in a movie who is unaware that he is a patient in a mental institution.

You rely on many of the sources that you say you rail against. You want me to Google something, when Google is a corporation. According to you, Google is capitalism, why would you ever care about, or trust something from a source that is the exact thing you believe to be the enemy?

In one post you say you think Google is good. Does that mean corporations can be good? That capitalism can be good? Which is it? Google is not run by democratic vote of the workers. If there was ever an example of the over-concentration of power, Google would be it. They control what a vast majority of people see when they conduct a search of the internet, and you don't see a problem with that?

No, my views are consistent with each other, and close enough with reality that I can make it by just fine, no matter what evil system I might be ensnared by. You are the one who thinks you can solve the world's problems with a fantasy.

 

[rickyb]

You "aren't saying" a lot of the things that you are saying. You just compared me to a character in a movie who is unaware that he is a patient in a mental institution.

You rely on many of the sources that you say you rail against. You want me to Google something, when Google is a corporation. According to you, Google is capitalism, why would you ever care about, or trust something from a source that is the exact thing you believe to be the enemy?

In one post you say you think Google is good. Does that mean corporations can be good? That capitalism can be good? Which is it? Google is not run by democratic vote of the workers. If there was ever an example of the over-concentration of power, Google would be it. They control what a vast majority of people see when they conduct a search of the internet, and you don't see a problem with that?

No, my views are consistent with each other, and close enough with reality that I can make it by just fine, no matter what evil system I might be ensnared by. You are the one who thinks you can solve the world's problems with a fantasy.

Enemies speak alot of truth. Ur quite right google s not run by democratic vote by workers.

Im probably talking about something like this. U r much better than vantexan but u still have ur moments. We were having a good convo but then u went immature:

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So u r indifferent between top down jobs and coops?

Are coops real or fantasy?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

Enemies speak alot of truth. Ur quite right google s not run by democratic vote by workers.

Im probably talking about something like this. U r much better than vantexan but u still have ur moments. We were having a good convo but then u went immature:

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

So u r indifferent between top down jobs and coops?

Are coops real or fantasy?

Where did I go immature? Functioning Socialism is a fantasy. The issue is that there are real problems with corporatism, and capitalism, and so it is hard to argue that their aren't. But that fact does not lend any credence to the viability of a Democratic economic system. People should demonstrate competence before being given the authority to make decisions. Corporations do fail at that, a lot. But your idea of a democratic, worker -controlled company is built entirely on incompetent people having equal say. If it ever works, it would have extremely limited success.

I am indifferent to coops or top down. We've been over this before, coops might solve some problems that corporations have. But if they were more effective as a business model, they would be the rule, not the exception. You have to ask yourself why coops aren't more common. I know your answer would be that evil capitalism keeps them down. But they don't do so well because the janitor should not have equal say over equipment acquisitions, if said janitor has no understanding of production or finance.

And don't talk to me about cognitive dissonance. I've written papers on the subject. I'm not the one who makes up new definitions for words to support my views. I can entertain conflicting ideas because I do not integrate them, thus avoiding dissonance.

 

[rickyb]

Where did I go immature? Functioning Socialism is a fantasy. The issue is that there are real problems with corporatism, and capitalism, and so it is hard to argue that their aren't. But that fact does not lend any credence to the viability of a Democratic economic system. People should demonstrate competence before being given the authority to make decisions. Corporations do fail at that, a lot. But your idea of a democratic, worker -controlled company is built entirely on incompetent people having equal say. If it ever works, it would have extremely limited success.

I am indifferent to coops or top down. We've been over this before, coops might solve some problems that corporations have. But if they were more effective as a business model, they would be the rule, not the exception. You have to ask yourself why coops aren't more common. I know your answer would be that evil capitalism keeps them down. But they don't do so well because the janitor should not have equal say over equipment acquisitions, if said janitor has no understanding of production or finance.

I think the problem is not more democracy its how ppl get their information and reach conclusions.

And don't talk to me about cognitive dissonance. I've written papers on the subject. I'm not the one who makes up new definitions for words to support my views. I can entertain conflicting ideas because I do not integrate them, thus avoiding dissonance.

I dont think we covered it so thx for answering. i also dont believe their popularity is based on their effectiveness anymore than trump or biden are the nominees based on their qualities, anymore than capitalism has only existed a few hundred years. Ill look it up again why they havent been more popular. 1 thing with economic democracy is quite often its crushed by internal or external forces. This happened in spanish civil war, russian revolution not sure where else. Why arent honest politicians more common? Why does everyone wear beats headphones when they are nowhere near the best for the price? Id guess most ppl have never thought of or heard of worker coops. they know they dont like their job but theyre not smart enough to say its because its undemocratic.

What about politics? U are indifferent to dictatorships or democracies for the same reasons i assume? According to u ppl arent competent enough to vote. Btw as u know coops elect their own managers. I agree specializing is more efficient but it can also be boring or physically tiring instead of rotating positions. I will also look up the worlds biggest coops.

U went kooky first thing yesterday. We were having a mature convo. btw is there anywhere a pure capitalism with no govt has ever existed? doubt it. so isnt that a fantasy?

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I dont think we covered it so thx for answering. i also dont believe their popularity is based on their effectiveness anymore than trump or biden are the nominees based on their qualities, anymore than capitalism has only existed a few hundred years. Ill look it up again why they havent been more popular. 1 thing with economic democracy is quite often its crushed by internal or external forces. This happened in spanish civil war, russian revolution not sure where else. Why arent honest politicians more common? Why does everyone wear beats headphones when they are nowhere near the best for the price? Id guess most ppl have never thought of or heard of worker coops. they know they dont like their job but theyre not smart enough to say its because its undemocratic.

What about politics? U are indifferent to dictatorships or democracies for the same reasons i assume? According to u ppl arent competent enough to vote. Btw as u know coops elect their own managers. I agree specializing is more efficient but it can also be boring or physically tiring instead of rotating positions. I will also look up the worlds biggest coops.

U went kooky first thing yesterday. We were having a mature convo. btw is there anywhere a pure capitalism with no govt has ever existed? doubt it. so isnt that a fantasy?

I never said capitalism has only existed a few hundred years, simply that corporations had. You conflate corporations with capitalism, so I can see where you got confused.

As for economic democracy, as with any system, if it is so susceptible to being destroyed by internal or external forces, then it is not as good a system as ones that are not as susceptible. You have admitted that capitalism is stable, and takes longer to break down, or I think you said something about a bubble popping. Why would you intentionally call for replacing a stronger system with a weaker one?

As far as specializing and efficiency, I agree. I think of myself as more of a generalist, and the way things are now, generalists don't tend to achieve at high levels, but are more adaptable to changing conditions. I think people with a broad range of skills have a better understanding of how things work together, and are better suited to be in decision making positions. If people were more rational, this would probably be the case. But people are not, and it is a fantasy to believe that imperfect people can create and maintain a perfect system.

Political dictatorships can be highly efficient, but that requires competent people making decisions. They generally tend to fall apart pretty quickly due to the impact that absolute power has on people.

I never advocated for a government-free economic system, so I don't know why you brought that up.

I did not get kooky, but I guess I can see why you thought that. I am starting to tire of these convos where we basically go over the same stuff over and over. Not to mention, I don't think people appreciate the thread-jacking. I'll have to get better at ignoring the patently absurd things that generally motivate me to answer.

 

[rickyb]

I never said capitalism has only existed a few hundred years, simply that corporations had. You conflate corporations with capitalism, so I can see where you got confused.

As for economic democracy, as with any system, if it is so susceptible to being destroyed by internal or external forces, then it is not as good a system as ones that are not as susceptible. You have admitted that capitalism is stable, and takes longer to break down, or I think you said something about a bubble popping. Why would you intentionally call for replacing a stronger system with a weaker one?

As far as specializing and efficiency, I agree. I think of myself as more of a generalist, and the way things are now, generalists don't tend to achieve at high levels, but are more adaptable to changing conditions. I think people with a broad range of skills have a better understanding of how things work together, and are better suited to be in decision making positions. If people were more rational, this would probably be the case. But people are not, and it is a fantasy to believe that imperfect people can create and maintain a perfect system.

Political dictatorships can be highly efficient, but that requires competent people making decisions. They generally tend to fall apart pretty quickly due to the impact that absolute power has on people. probably has something to do with people voting for corrupt politicians, wearing beats headphones, etc etc. this system has people choosing things that arent the best and top down capitalism is one of them id argue.

I never advocated for a government-free economic system, so I don't know why you brought that up.

I did not get kooky, but I guess I can see why you thought that. I am starting to tire of these convos where we basically go over the same stuff over and over. Not to mention, I don't think people appreciate the thread-jacking. I'll have to get better at ignoring the patently absurd things that generally motivate me to answer.

capitalism and democracy are both pretty new. so we might ask since debatably they are better than what came before, why did it take so long from them to come into being?

no one i listen to is in favor of dictatorships. and youre right they are efficient in the sense i would imagine theres no compromise. since democracy is relatively new, what came before it? i would assume dictatorships were before either by religion or kings. dont dictatorships last a long time?

i was talking about fantasy. i assume you wanted a market only capitalist fantasy.

capitalism is breaking down now. were in a stage of late capitalism. its either going to reform itself next 10 or 20 years or it will destroy itself. the fact that imperialist s destroy democracy is not a reason to give up on it. you just gotta beat the empires. its star wars. same for racism. they destroyed the movement partly by killing MLK, malcolm x, and jailing radicals under the guise of hte war on drugs. doesnt mean we should give up on it.

i looked up richard wolff and i couldnt find anything why cooperatives are not more popular although hes certainly mentioned it. chomsky talks about how popular economic democracy was in america before 1900s but the idea which he thinks is quite natural and i agree has been driven out of people's heads. i will look up biggest coops in the world. mondragon is one, its not a perfect coop but its cool and its huge.

u talked about rationality. markets are supposed to be based on that. but what do ads encourage?

what kind of political system do you prefer since you mentioned short comings of democracy?

 

[sailfish]

 

[rickyb]

View attachment 311487

why do u think youre told cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze. a mask does this all the time but you should still cover for added safety.

 

[sailfish]

why do u think youre told cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze. a mask does this all the time but you should still cover for added safety.

I don't know. I've covered my face and washed my hands my entire life to borderline germophobia and now I'm supposed make all these life modifications to accommodate ing idiots who such simple things are completely foreign to.

 

[rickyb]

I don't know. I've covered my face and washed my hands my entire life to borderline germophobia and now I'm supposed make all these life modifications to accommodate ing idiots who such simple things are completely foreign to.

yea but when you breathe the droplets come out too, its why you see your breath in the winter. covid #3 killer of americans this year. i dont like wearing masks either but i do it when im gonna be near dirty ers

 

[sailfish]

We wouldn't even be in this boat if people weren't such ing dirtballs from the very beginning. Using the bathroom without washing their hands. Dips using their hand to cover a cough or sneeze. Some just letting it hack right out in whatever direction their ugly face is in. For 's sake. I recently saw some fat sloppy piece of come strolling out of a stall and right out the restroom door. But hey, at least he was wearing a mask to keep from spreading germs.

 

[rickyb]

We wouldn't even be in this boat if people weren't such ing dirtballs from the very begging. Using the bathroom without washing their hands. Dips using their hand to cover a cough or sneeze. Some just letting it hack right out in whatever direction their ugly face is in. For 's sake. I recently saw some fat sloppy piece of come strolling out of a stall and right out the restroom door. But hey, at least he was wearing a mask to keep from spreading germs.

i think we wouldve had it either way but dirty ers u mentioned arent helping.

 

[sailfish]

i think we wouldve had it either way but dirty ers u mentioned arent helping.

The fact that it takes a pandemic for people to start washing their hands is just incomprehensible.

 

[rickyb]

The fact that it takes a pandemic for people to start washing their hands is just incomprehensible.

govts and private sector need to encourage it more. without keeping up with why it happened, i think the pandemic happened becuase of lab experiments, and animal agriculture.

 

[Wally]

We're back to the "saving lives" claims.

If covid can only stop via herd immunity, masking cannot save lives. In the end, the same number of infections must take place. The same number will die.

Model predicts 100,000 more COVID deaths unless U.S. changes its ways

The U.S. is in the grip of a fourth wave of infection this summer, powered by the highly contagious Delta variant, which has sent cases, hospitalizations and deaths soaring again.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Serf]

We're back to the "saving lives" claims.

If covid can only stop via herd immunity, masking cannot save lives. In the end, the same number of infections must take place. The same number will die.

Model predicts 100,000 more COVID deaths unless U.S. changes its ways

The U.S. is in the grip of a fourth wave of infection this summer, powered by the highly contagious Delta variant, which has sent cases, hospitalizations and deaths soaring again.

www.cbsnews.com

I hope I get it for Christmas. Then I’ll be out peak and apparently good.

 

[UnionStrong]

We wouldn't even be in this boat if people weren't such *ing dirtballs from the very beginning. Using the bathroom without washing their hands. Dip*s using their hand to cover a cough or sneeze. Some just letting it hack right out in whatever direction their ugly face is in. For *'s sake. I recently saw some fat sloppy piece of * come strolling out of a stall and right out the restroom door. But hey, at least he was wearing a mask to keep from spreading germs.

 

[Wally]

I hope I get it for Christmas. Then I’ll be out peak and apparently good.

2 weeks.

 

[Wally]

Do mask mandates work? Bay Area data from June says no.

SFGATE compared Alameda County’s 7-day average case rate from the past two months to rates in neighboring Contra Costa, Santa Clara and San Francisco counties.

www.sfgate.com

 

[UnionStrong]

Do mask mandates work? Bay Area data from June says no.

SFGATE compared Alameda County’s 7-day average case rate from the past two months to rates in neighboring Contra Costa, Santa Clara and San Francisco counties.

www.sfgate.com

Shocking