MinnesotaBrown
Active Member
Wisconsin is turning into the Egypt of the Midwest.
Is anyone following Wisconsin?
- Thread starter hubrat
- Start date
Brett, you are distorting what I wrote. "Overall compensation for public service workers are actually lower than for private sector jobs of comparable age and education". That is the important point. If you are in one of these public jobs, and you have a college degree (such as a teacher), yes there is a good chance you are making some good (and well earned $$);it is an important job. Also if age is considered like some of the more tenured teachers, you are going to find they make more than the newer teachers; that is just logical. So those stats you posted are vague and do not take into consideration all of the factors.
Private sector shrinks because private corporations send good jobs overseas or threaten to send them overseas. You can't do that with public service jobs.
island1fox
Well-Known Member
I personally do not like the kool aid drinkers from both ends of this argument.I believe a good healthy relationship between employers,employees and unions are healthy and can create many positive results.
In the area of "public sector unions" there is a real problem that no sensical person can disagree with .
Some key points:
1.We the people the Taxpayers are the employers we pay the bill.
The vast majority of us would agree to have the total compenation package a very good one for the public workers competitive with the private sector.
2. Why in many states this does not happen ?
Public sector unions use members union dues to provide millions of dollars to elect politicians that will spend our tax money.
When the politician gets elected for one or two terms will "payback" the unions support with rediculous sweetheart deals that we pay for.
The politician who will be in power only a few years does not care about many of the long term perks that will be unsustainable.
If we do not say the word "union" because many of us are stuck on that, it would be very clear that this system is very broken.
People that get elected cannot be allowed to use OUR money to pay back political backers.
Union or management this corrupt system is bad for all of us.
A possible solution:
Every state should have a non-partisan citizen committee comprised of retired union and management people that would negotiate the contracts and take this power out of all politicians hands --Democrat and Republican.
We the people pay the BILL . The contracts should be negotiated fairly to all of us public and private sector .
A little common sense here would go a very long way.
overallowed-rules
New Member
Is it just me or are unions as corrupt and out of touch with membership values and life's struggles as our dumb liberal government in D.C.?
brett636
Well-Known Member
I have distorted nothing. Overall government employees earn more than private sector employees. It makes a good case for what is happening in Wisconsin. Now if we could only get the federal employees on the same page.
.
You say competition with the private sector. But you have to remember that private sector union jobs have been under attack since Reagan in 1981. Many wage freezes, givebacks and good union jobs sent overseas later and we have a weakened private sector. So now you want a race to the bottom ! Now you want good paying public sector jobs to be downgraded to some private sector jobs?? I think it should be the other way around. We should have a race to the top. I want the public sector to lead the way for all of us to get higher wages. Stop drinking the corporate kool aid. Trickle down doesn't work, never has. We should demand trickle up!
hubrat
Squeaky Wheel
The WI educators are not federal employees.
Every bit if what is happening there is a ploy by the governor to disempower unions. It has nothing to do with state budget. If you believe otherwise, you are allowing yourself to be deceived.
When the politician gets elected for one or two terms will "payback" the unions support with rediculous sweetheart deals that we pay for.
The politician who will be in power only a few years does not care about many of the long term perks that will be unsustainable.
If we do not say the word "union" because many of us are stuck on that, it would be very clear that this system is very broken.
People that get elected cannot be allowed to use OUR money to pay back political backers.
This is our current political system. We have the best government $$ can buy!! If we went to public financing of all elections, we wouldn't have to worry about the for sale pols.
But the unions public and private lobby just as corporations lobby for legislation. Difference is public sector lobby for higher wages and benefits not legislation for a certain corporation's profit. They are lobbying for a decent middle class life. There is nothing wrong or corrupt about this. Every American should be entitled to a decent middle class life. Stop trying to hurt these people. Tell me why are we squeezing hard working folk when none of the Wall St banking criminals were put in jail yet for their crimes! Go after the real thugs in our society!
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Just stating the facts. Not hung up on the rhetoric. Private companies can pay their management and employees whatever they want to. I can use or not use their product or service.
Public workers are paid by ME. I do not want bought politicians spending my money--really simple issue.
This corrupt system is a monopoly and hurts all taxpayers.
Public workers are paid by ME. I do not want bought politicians spending my money--really simple issue.
This corrupt system is a monopoly and hurts all taxpayers.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
And taking it one step further, if all government services were privatized (other than Policing and Military) then the determination whether a service was needed and how much it costs would be by the consumer.
No way bro. Look at health care. In the private sector health care, bureaucracy, profit taking and overhead is between 10 and 20% a year. Medicare is about 3%. It is the profit motive which is pushing health care costs through the roof. You want to privatize all basic services ?? You want private fire fighters, public schools, sanitation, the post office, social workers, etc?? They have tried that in other countries and it fails the people. No thanks!
You have a beef with the pols. Stop taking it out on the workers. They are doing their jobs. Allow them to make a decent living!
island1fox
Well-Known Member
Not taking it out on anyone--just refuse to drink the kool aid. Not interested in Management that walk around with their ties too tight nor adults acting up like children with logo windbreakers that act like Soprano wannabes !!
Babagounj
Strength through joy
so this really about changing elected leaders ? not a economic budget ?
Babagounj
Strength through joy
Here's a nice new twist to this thread................
What’s at Stake in Wisconsin Budget Battle: Union Dues, of Course
Labor historian Fred Siegel offers further reasons why unions are manning the barricades. Mr. Walker would require that public-employee unions be recertified annually by a majority vote of all their members, not merely by a majority of those that choose to cast ballots. In addition, he would end the government’s practice of automatically deducting union dues from employee paychecks. For Wisconsin teachers, union dues total between $700 and $1,000 a year.
“Ending dues deductions breaks the political cycle in which government collects dues, gives them to the unions, who then use the dues to back their favorite candidates and also lobby for bigger government and more pay and benefits,” Mr. Siegel told me. After New York City’s Transport Workers Union lost the right to automatic dues collection in 2007 following an illegal strike, its income fell by more than 35% as many members stopped ponying up. New York City ended the dues collection ban after 18 months.
What’s at Stake in Wisconsin Budget Battle: Union Dues, of Course
Labor historian Fred Siegel offers further reasons why unions are manning the barricades. Mr. Walker would require that public-employee unions be recertified annually by a majority vote of all their members, not merely by a majority of those that choose to cast ballots. In addition, he would end the government’s practice of automatically deducting union dues from employee paychecks. For Wisconsin teachers, union dues total between $700 and $1,000 a year.
“Ending dues deductions breaks the political cycle in which government collects dues, gives them to the unions, who then use the dues to back their favorite candidates and also lobby for bigger government and more pay and benefits,” Mr. Siegel told me. After New York City’s Transport Workers Union lost the right to automatic dues collection in 2007 following an illegal strike, its income fell by more than 35% as many members stopped ponying up. New York City ended the dues collection ban after 18 months.
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