Living wage for part timers

[BrownBrokeDown]

At least cite something, a study with statistics, anything...lol That's how most people try to be factual, anyway.

You took my point a little too literally, maybe my fault...

Again - the vast majority of wealthy people were not born poor or into poverty, their success has been augmented by a variety of external factors that can't be identified in any studies and stats (which you failed to provide, along with most who try to make the point you are making). If you believe the big lie, go for it.

To clarify for everyone else, I think what SmH is trying to say is that most millionaires and billionaires, even though it is 1st generation wealth, are born to situations where the family is a little better off than some other people. eg. they are born to a family that has an annual income of $75,000 vs someone else with a $35,000 income.

The problem with this, is that it is possible for someone born below the poverty level and the lower middle class, to work their way into that top 0.5%. It is harder (in my opinion) due to schooling costs, available schooling quality, etc, but it is doable. I was born to a lower middle class family, just high enough to get no assistance and having to live paycheck to paycheck. A little personal info to explain why I don't have as much sympathy for those that choose not to work their way out. I had the opportunities coming out of high school and chose beer and women instead. Now, I'm married, have kids, and having to work my way out again (2 jobs, waiting on that dream driver job, lol). It's about effort. There are oppurtunities out there, and not all involve a higher education.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Wrong! Around 85% of wealth is first generation and not handed down.

At least cite something, a study with statistics, anything...lol That's how most people try to be factual, anyway.

You took my point a little too literally, maybe my fault...

Again - the vast majority of wealthy people were not born poor or into poverty, their success has been augmented by a variety of external factors that can't be identified in any studies and stats (which you failed to provide, along with most who try to make the point you are making). If you believe the big lie, go for it.

There is a vast amount of stats and studies on the web that back up my statement so feel free to Google till your fingers hurt. I've been down this road before so I already know its there. Wealth can be obtained regardless of external factors. Being born into poverty was only a speedbump in the road to those that came out of it. It IS a roadblock with no detour to those that are habitually poor. Mentality and state of mind are more important factors than external factors.

 

[Catatonic]

To clarify for everyone else, I think what SmH is trying to say is that most millionaires and billionaires, even though it is 1st generation wealth, are born to situations where the family is a little better off than some other people. eg. they are born to a family that has an annual income of $75,000 vs someone else with a $35,000 income.

The problem with this, is that it is possible for someone born below the poverty level and the lower middle class, to work their way into that top 0.5%. It is harder (in my opinion) due to schooling costs, available schooling quality, etc, but it is doable. I was born to a lower middle class family, just high enough to get no assistance and having to live paycheck to paycheck. A little personal info to explain why I don't have as much sympathy for those that choose not to work their way out. I had the opportunities coming out of high school and chose beer and women instead. Now, I'm married, have kids, and having to work my way out again (2 jobs, waiting on that dream driver job, lol). It's about effort. There are oppurtunities out there, and not all involve a higher education.

To summarize:
Educational opportunities increase the chances of one becoming a millionaire (but just barely).
It has absolutely nothing to do with reaching that top 0.5%.
​
There is no educational prerequisite to start your own business or to become an entrepreneur.
Education just gets your foot in the door ... a positive attitude, hard work and "smarts" gets you to the top.
A defeatist attitude keeps you at the bottom.

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

To summarize:
Educational opportunities increase the chances of one becoming a millionaire (but just barely).
It has absolutely nothing to do with reaching that top 0.5%.
​
There is no educational prerequisite to start your own business or to become an entrepreneur.
Education just gets your foot in the door ... a positive attitude, hard work and "smarts" gets you to the top.
A defeatist attitude keeps you at the bottom.

Exactly. That is my personal opinion as well. It just seemed like his point wasn't coming across very well.

There has been too many successes from bad or impoverished backgrounds to say it is not possible depending on how you grew up. It is always possible. Anything is an excuse.

 

[Catatonic]

Exactly. That is my personal opinion as well. It just seemed like his point wasn't coming across very well.

There has been too many successes from bad or impoverished backgrounds to say it is not possible depending on how you grew up. It is always possible. Anything is an excuse.

I also think that as a society, we place to much emphasis on being successful ... if someone wants to be lazy and barely get by, who am I to judge.
​As long as they have a pot to piss in, good for them.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Okay points taken. OTOH I was not reffering to top 1% by any stretch. Also, income equality has more than a loose correlation with aggregated wealth. Obviously not direct.

 

[BrownBrokeDown]

My biggest problem with the whole situation is the vast difference between the top of any given company and the bottom. While it is obvious that top management should be paid substantially more, when you start talking 1000's of percents, it's a little extreme. Especially in companies that are laying off, but the head honchos won't take the miniscule paycut (to them) that would allow the people to stay working.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

To summarize:

Education just gets your foot in the door ... a positive attitude, hard work and "smarts" gets you to the top.

Look at the promotion history in operations at UPS...flies right in the face of your American dream storyline. And that history is not aberration in corporate America.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

There is a vast amount of stats and studies on the web that back up my statement so feel free to Google till your fingers hurt. I've been down this road before so I already know its there. Wealth can be obtained regardless of external factors. Being born into poverty was only a speedbump in the road to those that came out of it. It IS a roadblock with no detour to those that are habitually poor. Mentality and state of mind are more important factors than external factors.

You may have been listening to that stooge Dave Ramsay a bit too much, I'd say.

 

[klein]

Here is a nice fact for you:
Since 2008 as Obama became prez income for the bottom 30% rose only 1%.
For the middle class only 1-2%.
For the top 10% a whopping 31% !
No wonder the US ecomony struggles.
And btw, it's not all Obamas fault for the above income stats.
How can we forget not cancelling the Bush tax cuts for the rich ?

 

[oldngray]

Bush cut taxes for everyone. Obama just let the tax cuts expire and only extended the tax cuts for poorer people. So it was more a case of Obama taxed the rich, not Bush cut their taxes.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

There is a vast amount of stats and studies on the web that back up my statement so feel free to Google till your fingers hurt. I've been down this road before so I already know its there. Wealth can be obtained regardless of external factors. Being born into poverty was only a speedbump in the road to those that came out of it. It IS a roadblock with no detour to those that are habitually poor. Mentality and state of mind are more important factors than external factors.

You may have been listening to that stooge Dave Ramsay a bit too much, I'd say.

Exactly! And that's why I am debt free minus the house and that's why millionaires have their millions. Not necessarily by listening to Dave Ramsey but being smart with money as he teaches once they've busted their butts and/or took the risks required to succeed. That approach works much better than listening to broke people that remain broke because of their garbage attitudes towards working hard and smart and think that its society's fault that they are in that situation. So, it's obvious you are confused on exactly who the stooges are here.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Exactly! And that's why I am debt free minus the house and that's why millionaires have their millions. Not necessarily by listening to Dave Ramsey but being smart with money as he teaches once they've busted their butts and/or took the risks required to succeed. That approach works much better than listening to broke people that remain broke because of their garbage attitudes towards working hard and smart and think that its society's fault that they are in that situation. So, it's obvious you are confused on exactly who the stooges are here.

I wasn't talking about his financial advice, I was speaking of his bigotry (yes he is a bigot) and overall empty-mindedness. The times I have tuned in, he does usually give seemingly okay financial advice to those interested.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Exactly! And that's why I am debt free minus the house and that's why millionaires have their millions. Not necessarily by listening to Dave Ramsey but being smart with money as he teaches once they've busted their butts and/or took the risks required to succeed. That approach works much better than listening to broke people that remain broke because of their garbage abttitudes towards working hard and smart and think that its society's fault that they are in that situation. So, it's obvious you are confused on exactly who the stooges are here.

I wasn't talking about his financial advice, I was speaking of his bigotry (yes he is a bigot) and overall empty-mindedness. The times I have tuned in, he does usually give seemingly okay financial advice to those interested.

That makes no sense and is way out of context. Unless you are calling me a bigot of course. Trust me when I say you don't even want to go there. Sounds like a typical cop out to me. The discussion isn't going your way so you have to resort to baseless name calling. CLASSIC!

 

[wilberforce15]

Exactly! And that's why I am debt free minus the house and that's why millionaires have their millions. Not necessarily by listening to Dave Ramsey but being smart with money as he teaches once they've busted their butts and/or took the risks required to succeed. That approach works much better than listening to broke people that remain broke because of their garbage attitudes towards working hard and smart and think that its society's fault that they are in that situation. So, it's obvious you are confused on exactly who the stooges are here.

Dave Ramsey offers excellent personal advice, both on finances and all the personal things along with it like work ethic, general attitude, etc. I love him for that stuff.

But he is seriously confused in one respect, namely the fact that he seems to think those answers (determination, hard work, etc.) solve poverty anywhere they are applied, and that anyone who is poor has failed to live by them.

If every poor person everywhere suddenly did everything exactly as Dave Ramsey said, this world would be a lot better. But you'd still have hordes of people barely able to provide for themselves and their families, because our system simply does not pay the lower rungs what they are worth. Those lower rung jobs have to exist and have to be done, and people will fill those spots.

For an individual, applying hard work and elbow grease might get you a promotion or a better job. But if everyone does the same thing, the number of promotions or jobs doesn't expand a whole lot. There is hope on an individual level, but the poor as a class don't have much of a shot.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

That makes no sense and is way out of context. Unless you are calling me a bigot of course. Trust me when I say you don't even want to go there. Sounds like a typical cop out to me. The discussion isn't going your way so you have to resort to baseless name calling. CLASSIC!

From many comments I can recall hearing him say, he is quite bigoted. That's not name calling, it's a casual observation. How you take that is your own choice. Feel free to be "liberal" as you might say and get your panties in a knot

"the discussion going my way"

I don't care which way any conversation goes about how bad the working person in America gets screwed, as thoughts solutions and otherwise are opinion and no one here is going to change a thing with them, anyway.

 

[Catatonic]

From many comments I can recall hearing him say, he is quite bigoted. That's not name calling, it's a casual observation. How you take that is your own choice. Feel free to be "liberal" as you might say and get your panties in a knot

"the discussion going my way"

I don't care which way any conversation goes about how bad the working person in America gets screwed, as thoughts solutions and otherwise are opinion and no one here is going to change a thing with them, anyway.

Based on what I have seen of your posts, anyone that says an individual should take care of his/herself is a bigot.

But that's just a casual observation ... but one I am pretty sure is correct.

 

[Socrates]

I agree with a few of these points, but none address the fact that the majority (not all) of millionaires did not come from a background of poverty, poor schools and little access to higher education.

You are correct, the U.S. is a great place to make money and gain wealth (hid away in overseas tax shelters of course!)

And many pro athletes don't come from families where neither parent played any sport, ever. What's your point? If you expand your (baseless) anecdote back a few generations, does it still hold up?

My parents were poor, and now I'm a UPS Driver. With any luck, I'll marry a similarly high-earning Woman, we'll have children, and our kids will grow up in a household making $140k/year (about 7x higher than what I grew up with), living in a half million dollar house, going to quality schools. I won't die a millionaire, but with some luck and a whole lot of hard work, my kids will have a very strong shot at it, and that's all I really care about.

Not everybody can be the Slumdog Millionaire. And the lack of SMs doesn't mean that society is utterly broken and untenable and in need of immediate sweeping changes.

 

[Socrates]

Again - the vast majority of wealthy people were not born poor or into poverty, their success has been augmented by a variety of external factors that can't be identified in any studies and stats (which you failed to provide, along with most who try to make the point you are making). If you believe the big lie, go for it.

1 plus 1 equals something, and I can't prove anything, but it's most likely 3. If you want to believe the big lie that 1+1=2, then go for it.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

And many pro athletes don't come from families where neither parent played any sport, ever. What's your point? If you expand your (baseless) anecdote back a few generations, does it still hold up?

My parents were poor, and now I'm a UPS Driver. With any luck, I'll marry a similarly high-earning Woman, we'll have children, and our kids will grow up in a household making $140k/year (about 7x higher than what I grew up with), living in a half million dollar house, going to quality schools. I won't die a millionaire, but with some luck and a whole lot of hard work, my kids will have a very strong shot at it, and that's all I really care about.

Not everybody can be the Slumdog Millionaire. And the lack of SMs doesn't mean that society is utterly broken and untenable and in need of immediate sweeping changes.

What's with all of the millionaire talk?