Local 804 Drivers Walked Out

[Anonymous 11]

The televised crucifixion of Liam?

That would make him a martyr and you can't reward him for not being smarter!!!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

He was very clear about the consequences; however, he shouldn't have gotten them all riled up and then try to talk some sense in to them.


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[Indecisi0n]

Most people blame Liam be use let's face it, most (not all) drivers are sheep and will follow. They put their trust in him and walked. Did he say "you could be fired" in the video yes but can you imagine walking then after him saying this drivers walking back into the building. People would shame those guys for life. Like said above I feel bad for everyone because the drivers were put in a very tough spot. Just have to wait and see how it plays out. Either UPS draws this out then drops all charges or they fire everyone and try and use this as intimidation for other locals. Only time will tell.

 

[Anonymous 11]

We wouldn't be having this discussion if it weren't for his irresponsible actions that day.


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I think he should take one for the team and step down.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I think he should take one for the team and step down.

Definitely but it won't be enough. UPS lost thousands on late air alone. Someone has to pay.


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[Johney]

Most people blame Liam be use let's face it, most (not all) drivers are sheep and will follow. They put their trust in him and walked. Did he say "you could be fired" in the video yes but can you imagine walking then after him saying this drivers walking back into the building. People would shame those guys for life. Like said above I feel bad for everyone because the drivers were put in a very tough spot. Just have to wait and see how it plays out. Either UPS draws this out then drops all charges or they fire everyone and try and use this as intimidation for other locals. Only time will tell.

I hear what you're saying but in a situation like this you really shouldn't be worried about what the guy next to you will think of you if you put on your big boy pant's and said friend-this I don't want to lose my job over this. A nationwide strike would be different. Everyone in the nation is in the same boat and it's not likely we would all get the ax.

 

[Johney]

I think he should take one for the team and step down.

I'd be surprised if that were to happen.

 

[Johney]

Definitely but it won't be enough. UPS lost thousands on late air alone. Someone has to pay.


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Do you think they paid for any late air due to this?

 

[packageman]

Most people blame Liam be use let's face it, most (not all) drivers are sheep and will follow. They put their trust in him and walked. Did he say "you could be fired" in the video yes but can you imagine walking then after him saying this drivers walking back into the building. People would shame those guys for life. Like said above I feel bad for everyone because the drivers were put in a very tough spot. Just have to wait and see how it plays out. Either UPS draws this out then drops all charges or they fire everyone and try and use this as intimidation for other locals. Only time will tell.

Now big tim can give these 250 members a job at the union hall. After the company finishes sueing the union there won't be a hall on review ave. It will be in trusteeship

 

[realbrown1]

Liam was on video taking full responsibility. How has he not stepped down for these drivers? Tool!


Sent using the conscience of Local 251

Because if these 20 have been fired, UPS doesn't have the last word in firing these drivers. There will be panels, there will be arbitrations, and there will be legal action.

As I have said from the beginning. Let the process work it out.

Stink, you seem to be hoping these drivers lose their jobs for political purposes. That's the lowest form of person. Sort of like the definition of a SCAB.

 

[rotor1546]

UPS still have the party going on at Maspeth...fired more drivers today... When its gonna stop???


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[realbrown1]

Now big tim can give these 250 members a job at the union hall. After the company finishes sueing the union there won't be a hall on review ave. It will be in trusteeship

Why are you so positive it won't be the union suing UPS?

Let the issue be totally settled before jumping on the bandwagon to tear this local apart.

Good teamsters should be supporting these 250 drivers and their local.

We can see now who is putting Old Guard politics ahead of what's best for the Teamsters as a whole.

 

[not what i voted for]

If UPS would prefer to avoid being left "open for this type of action" it's actually a pretty simple fix for them. They can do what many companies that are signatory to collective bargaining agreements do...follow the damn provisions of the contract that they have agreed to! Article 18 Section 4 a) of the Local 804 Supplement is pretty clear. The Union agrees that it will not cause or permit its members to cause strikes of any kind, stoppages, or any other interference with any of the operations of the Company during the term of the Agreement, so long as the Company abides by the procedure prescribed for the settlement of disputes and differences and the decisions of the arbitrators. It would appear that UPS believes that the collective bargaining agreement is a document intended to carve into stone those provisions that the Union must adhere to, while the provisions that the Company must adhere to can be just consistently ignored until they fade away. UPS is about to learn that they are under the same burden as the Union to abide to the terms and conditions of the contract that was negotiated in good faith and which they agreed to.

If UPS has any doubts about the language in Article 18, Section 4 a) being upheld by an arbitrator, they need look no further than the decision of the Arbitrator in the Melville arbitration. While the issue in Melville differed from Maspeth, in that the Company did abide by the procedure prescribed for the settlement of disputes and differences, the decision of the Arbitrator clearly stated that The language of the Agreement authorizes the Union to engage in a job action only if the Company fails to abide by the procedures for the settlement of disputes and differences, and, as noted above, the Company abided by the settlement procedures.

Pretty simple, really. UPS abided by the settlement procedures in Melville and failed to do so in Maspeth. The "costs associated with Trainers and training" are minimal in comparison to the potential back pay award for 250 drivers that UPS is staring at. It could have been avoided were it not for the absolute arrogance of a Company that thinks they can pick and choose those contractual provisions that they'll abide by!

Like I staid you are not a Teamster even though you are required to pay dues.
Why is Local 804 not in the street if UPS is walking drivers off the job for (according to you) legal work stoppage?
Where is the enough is enough attitude and why did both Sylvester and Reynolds tell the Maspeth drivers to go back to work if it was so clear what the Arbitrator ruled in the Melville case.You are a joke potential back pay - how did the back pay work for the Stewards 0 $ and they didn't get fired (suspended !)
It is clear that your job is not on the line in Maspeth but we will see what happens when this is done.

 

[NoRespect]

UPS still have the party going on at Maspeth...fired more drivers today... When its gonna stop???


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The drivers was already fired. They was on a working termination now what happened yesterday and today is they finally starting to let go of the drivers starting with 20. 5 from each center and just to add only chris w walking around. There promoting PT sups to replace these drivers. They don't care of much experience we have we are all on pins and needles.

 

[teamster 804]

Once all the drivers have finally been terminated because of the reckless action of an incompetent business agent where do we go from there.All the drivers will sue the local,the company will fine the local for the work stoppage and loss of revenue.After the cloud clears where are we as a local or will we still have a local.What happens with our pensions,medical etc.I keep hearing about rallies with politicians and public advocates.Where is Hoffa and the International,does our boat just sink without any life preservers from them, i mean WTF doesn't a percentage of our dues go to them.I keep hearing ohh Hoffa don't like our local, Sandy Pope this and that all the way back to Ron Carey.Like or dislike we are a part of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters where is our backing.

 

[upschuck]

They was on a working termination now what happened yesterday and today is they finally starting to let go of the drivers starting with 20. 5 from each center and just to add only chris w walking around.

Sounds like a favoritism grievance to me.

There promoting PT sups to replace these drivers.

Promoting them where? to FT management to train new people, or to FT driving. If it is to FT driving then that would go against the 6 to 1 hires(assuming 6-1 is your ratio). IF to management, then what are they going to do after they get trained, unless it is temp promotion.

 

[not what i voted for]

Once all the drivers have finally been terminated because of the reckless action of an incompetent business agent where do we go from there.All the drivers will sue the local,the company will fine the local for the work stoppage and loss of revenue.After the cloud clears where are we as a local or will we still have a local.What happens with our pensions,medical etc.I keep hearing about rallies with politicians and public advocates.Where is Hoffa and the International,does our boat just sink without any life preservers from them, i mean WTF doesn't a percentage of our dues go to them.I keep hearing ohh Hoffa don't like our local, Sandy Pope this and that all the way back to Ron Carey.Like or dislike we are a part of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters where is our backing.

Our pension and medical are safe . Anyone that doesn't think that this is turned political is greatly mistaken.
This Local became a TDU LOCAL when these people were elected. Sylvester nominated Pope to run against Hoffa.
Look at the TDU website all they do is point out the mistakes and what the IBT is doing wrong. Now do you really think that the IBT is rushing to solve this problem.
I still remember all the promises that were made to bring back Local 804 and make UPS show the members dignity and respect 24 hour representation. They used Ron Carey's name they should be ashamed what they did to these members.
I hope that someone will step up and help these drivers they don't deserve to lose their jobs for following a Local 804 Business Agent.

 

[island1fox]

If UPS would prefer to avoid being left "open for this type of action" it's actually a pretty simple fix for them. They can do what many companies that are signatory to collective bargaining agreements do...follow the damn provisions of the contract that they have agreed to! Article 18 Section 4 a) of the Local 804 Supplement is pretty clear. The Union agrees that it will not cause or permit its members to cause strikes of any kind, stoppages, or any other interference with any of the operations of the Company during the term of the Agreement, so long as the Company abides by the procedure prescribed for the settlement of disputes and differences and the decisions of the arbitrators. It would appear that UPS believes that the collective bargaining agreement is a document intended to carve into stone those provisions that the Union must adhere to, while the provisions that the Company must adhere to can be just consistently ignored until they fade away. UPS is about to learn that they are under the same burden as the Union to abide to the terms and conditions of the contract that was negotiated in good faith and which they agreed to.

If UPS has any doubts about the language in Article 18, Section 4 a) being upheld by an arbitrator, they need look no further than the decision of the Arbitrator in the Melville arbitration. While the issue in Melville differed from Maspeth, in that the Company did abide by the procedure prescribed for the settlement of disputes and differences, the decision of the Arbitrator clearly stated that The language of the Agreement authorizes the Union to engage in a job action only if the Company fails to abide by the procedures for the settlement of disputes and differences, and, as noted above, the Company abided by the settlement procedures.

Pretty simple, really. UPS abided by the settlement procedures in Melville and failed to do so in Maspeth. The "costs associated with Trainers and training" are minimal in comparison to the potential back pay award for 250 drivers that UPS is staring at. It could have been avoided were it not for the absolute arrogance of a Company that thinks they can pick and choose those contractual provisions that they'll abide by!

Brown Spider,

According to Your interpretation --no sweat -everything is great !!
That's not what I am hearing on this thread !!

 

[Johney]

Once all the drivers have finally been terminated because of the reckless action of an incompetent business agent where do we go from there.All the drivers will sue the local,(Drivers sue the Local? For what? I heard the guy say at least 3 times you may get fired)the company will fine the local for the work stoppage and loss of revenue(UPS will have to show what if any refunds were paid out).After the cloud clears where are we as a local or will we still have a local(there still will be a local, but they may have a problem getting new members).What happens with our pensions,medical etc(Good question.I guess COBRA is an option for benefits).I keep hearing about rallies with politicians and public advocates.Where is Hoffa and the International(this was an unauthorized work stoppage right? This Liam guy did this on his own right? I doubt the International will get involved),does our boat just sink without any life preservers from them, i mean WTF doesn't a percentage of our dues go to them.I keep hearing ohh Hoffa don't like our local, Sandy Pope this and that all the way back to Ron Carey.Like or dislike we are a part of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters where is our backing.

Again I feel for you all, you got put in a bad spot and it really looks like it's going bad fast. It's like putting your life savings on a team in the Super Bowl and when they lose you want your money back. Not gonna happen. They rolled the dice with this guy and lost. Bummer.

 

[Johney]

Has anybody thought of this as a preamble to a nation wide strike? See if they can replace a center at a small scale and if it works replace all of us? I know that's far fetched but maybe? Just a thought.