Low IQ's and Conservative Values Linked

[Catatonic]

George Lakoff: What Conservatives Really Want

If nothing else George has a creative imagination.
None of what he said relates to anyone I know and he truly does not understand the modern conservative.

For example, what George writes is:
Conservatives believe in individual responsibility alone, not social responsibility. They don't think government should help its citizens. That is, they don't think citizens should help each other.

That is actually not born out by the facts.
Most conservatives don't don't think that the government should extort money from people who work hard, make good choices in lifestyle, raise their kids to have proper morals and
give that money to people who don't work, who have kids just to get money from the government and are not engaged in the proper raising of their kids.

That is simply not right and is immoral.

Most conservatives give freely to others who are trying to realize the American dream. Most conservatives donate to their church in time and money to help out good citizens down on their luck and going through a rough period. Ask the many refugee citizens from New Orleans who it was that helped them - was it the liberals reaching out to them and finding them housing? Was it the liberals that invited them into their homes and helped them out until they could help themselves? Not hardly ... it was the liberals who were bellyaching and complaining that the Government should be helping out these people in need ... while these liberals did nothing to help the individuals citizens.

This is a generalization of course and there are many examples of liberals helping out these refugees as well but from what the liberal media showed on TV, it was the conservative Christians who were carrying the burden of helping out other citizens - not the Liberals or the Governments.

Just a thoughtful observation from a Libertarian.

 

[bbsam]

Libertarian my ass.

 

[Catatonic]

Libertarian my ass.

I would be interested in which views I have expressed that would make you think I don't lean heavily towards a Libertarian point of view.

The Libertarian Party is the only political party to which I have ever belonged.
Ron Paul is a Libertatrian and I have consistently agreed with him on every point he makes and have posted that on here several times.

 

[bbsam]

Let's start with anytime you disagree with wk.

 

[Catatonic]

Let's start with anytime you disagree with wk.

That's strange because I believe we consistently agree on what role we think the government should be.
I rarely disagree with wkmac if ever on political beliefs ... we know each other and have talked in person before.
I think he is a Libertarian and obviously a very smart person since we agree politically.
Libertarian is a belief system of what the Governments should do - especially the National government.

I think the times we may disagree is possibly when we discuss implementation but rarely if ever on theory.

 

[804brown]

I would be interested in which views I have expressed that would make you think I don't lean heavily towards a Libertarian point of view.

The Libertarian Party is the only political party to which I have ever belonged.
Ron Paul is a Libertatrian and I have consistently agreed with him on every point he makes and have posted that on here several times.

Did you support bush's unfunded wars??? Or his unfunded tax cuts?? Or his continuing of deregulation of big business??

 

[Catatonic]

Did you support bush's unfunded wars??? Or his unfunded tax cuts?? Or his continuing of deregulation of big business??

Wars - nope ... especially the Iraq war

tax cuts - yes - excuse me but hell yes

prescription drugs Medicare D - nope - unfunded and none of the governments business

Deregulation of big business - not aware that he did much - should have done a lot more

If you think any of my answers above are contrary to Libertarian views, I suggest you go do some research on what the Libertarians believe. If you disagree with my answers, you are not a Libertarian.

As for Bush, I have expressed that he was a big government Socialist and I did not care for him as President in many ways. MrFedEx views this concept rather incredulously ... much as I imagine he does his big toe each morning.

 

[MrFedEx]

I would be interested in which views I have expressed that would make you think I don't lean heavily towards a Libertarian point of view.

The Libertarian Party is the only political party to which I have ever belonged.
Ron Paul is a Libertatrian and I have consistently agreed with him on every point he makes and have posted that on here several times.

As a true Libertarian, what are you going to do if we actually ever have a Libertarian president (never)? It always amazes me that Libertarians can be so ignorant of the idea that we do have a responsibility for and to the larger society in which we live. 'Self-responsibility" only goes so far, a convenient fact ignored by Libertarian leaders. The utopian state of personal "freedom" you believe in can never be, except perhaps in a glass-domed society of the strange floating somewhere in the ocean, free from their government "oppressors".

My guess is that such a "utopia", if left alone to true Libertarians, would be a floating City of the Dead, because all of you crazies would have killed each other striving to be "free". May I suggest that you take both of the Pauls with you to ensure that the movement gets completely snuffed-out.

 

[Catatonic]

As a true Libertarian, what are you going to do if we actually ever have a Libertarian president (never)? It always amazes me that Libertarians can be so ignorant of the idea that we do have a responsibility for and to the larger society in which we live. 'Self-responsibility" only goes so far, a convenient fact ignored by Libertarian leaders. The utopian state of personal "freedom" you believe in can never be, except perhaps in a glass-domed society of the strange floating somewhere in the ocean, free from their government "oppressors".

My guess is that such a "utopia", if left alone to true Libertarians, would be a floating City of the Dead, because all of you crazies would have killed each other striving to be "free". May I suggest that you take both of the Pauls with you to ensure that the movement gets completely snuffed-out.

I reject your suggestion sir.

Libertarians at a simplistic level, but certainly not all encompassing, believe in the social beliefs of Liberals and the fiscal beliefs of Conservatives. I can't say we accept anything of the Democrats or the Republicans because these two belief systems have increasingly become dysfunctional and destructive to the general welfare and freedoms of the citizens of the US.

I don't expect you to understand that and I am okay with that inevitability - Live Long and Prosper.

 

[MrFedEx]

I reject your suggestion sir.

Libertarians at a simplistic level, but certainly not all encompassing, believe in the social beliefs of Liberals and the fiscal beliefs of Conservatives. I can't say we accept anything of the Democrats or the Republicans because these two belief systems have increasingly become dysfunctional and destructive to the general welfare and freedoms of the citizens of the US.

I don't expect you to understand that and I am okay with that inevitability - Live Long and Prosper.

Rand and Ron. Poster Boys for the self-empowered. Please tell me how cost-fixated Libertarians that hate government social programs embrace the social beliefs of Liberals. I can certainly see the Conservative fiscal agenda, but not the former.

 

[av8torntn]

Rand and Ron. Poster Boys for the self-empowered. Please tell me how cost-fixated Libertarians that hate government social programs embrace the social beliefs of Liberals. I can certainly see the Conservative fiscal agenda, but not the former.

Do you not agree that when an individual is allowed to pursue his own interests it benefits the group as a whole? Sure there is a difference in liberal and libertarians in that liberals believe the state should make plans for everyone and libertarians believe that individuals should be allowed to make plans for themselves but many of their beliefs in social freedoms are very similar.

To me your question makes no sense. I think you are claiming that liberals do not want anyone to have any freedoms at all(social or fiscal). I tend to believe that most liberals believe in social freedoms but not fiscal freedom. From my limited understanding a liberal and a libertarian share many beliefs in social freedoms. I think it is more than a little possible that you have no clue what most libertarians believe in based on your statement and question above.

 

[bbsam]

I reject your suggestion sir.

Libertarians at a simplistic level, but certainly not all encompassing, believe in the social beliefs of Liberals and the fiscal beliefs of Conservatives. I can't say we accept anything of the Democrats or the Republicans because these two belief systems have increasingly become dysfunctional and destructive to the general welfare and freedoms of the citizens of the US.

I don't expect you to understand that and I am okay with that inevitability - Live Long and Prosper.

And this represents what I could never trust with Ron Paul. He would say all the right things as president, but when push came to shove it would always be the social liberties that got thrown under the bus. Can you imagine a Libertarian president in this political climate? The corporate "individuals" and the military industrial complex "individuals" would side with him on half of everything he wanted--their half and he could go back to the Whitehouse with the misguided, self-congratulatory pat on the back that he had compromised. The only thing he would have compromised is the 99%, but that's OK with Libertarians?

 

[trplnkl]

And this represents what I could never trust with Ron Paul. He would say all the right things as president, but when push came to shove it would always be the social liberties that got thrown under the bus. Can you imagine a Libertarian president in this political climate? The corporate "individuals" and the military industrial complex "individuals" would side with him on half of everything he wanted--their half and he could go back to the Whitehouse with the misguided, self-congratulatory pat on the back that he had compromised. The only thing he would have compromised is the 99%, but that's OK with Libertarians?

Let there be no mistake, Ron Paul is a politician, although he has been more consistent than any others. We've seen the last three years what happens when politicians can't compromise. I can't see Paul compromising with the DOD a lot.

 

[Catatonic]

Rand and Ron. Poster Boys for the self-empowered. Please tell me how cost-fixated Libertarians that hate government social programs embrace the social beliefs of Liberals. I can certainly see the Conservative fiscal agenda, but not the former.

Thanks for pointing that out!!! Very embarrassing.
I misspoke ... I meant to say individual freedom beliefs of the Liberals.

I certainly don't think Libertarians would ever support the Socialist programs of the Liberals.
Somehow I imagine you do not focus on individual freedom but rather the control of others to make them conform to your beliefs.

 

[bbsam]

Thanks for pointing that out!!! Very embarrassing.
I misspoke ... I meant to say individual freedom beliefs of the Liberals.

I certainly don't think Libertarians would ever support the Socialist programs of the Liberals.
Somehow I imagine you do not focus on individual freedom but rather the control of others to make them conform to your beliefs.

And would you put Obamacare in the "Socialist" category?

 

[Catatonic]

And would you put Obamacare in the "Socialist" category?

PLEASE!!! Of course! What an insulting question!

 

[804brown]

Thanks for pointing that out!!! Very embarrassing.
I misspoke ... I meant to say individual freedom beliefs of the Liberals.

I certainly don't think Libertarians would ever support the Socialist programs of the Liberals.
Somehow I imagine you do not focus on individual freedom but rather the control of others to make them conform to your beliefs.

You really think liberals are the same as socialists?? LOL, please liberals are capitalists with a heart. They are pro capitlism only with a view that the poorest among us should be helped because capitlaism leaves too many losers. Liberals big idea is inceasing the minimum wage;socialists think the entire profit system is evil and a minimum wage only helps the capitalists rule.

On libertariansim, they believ public libraries and schools and hospitals are socialism!! as well as public parks and squares. They also believe labor unions are evil because they impede capitalists from making more profits. They think that workers should not have a right to strike but should be subject to managements drug tests and no child labor laws??
And what part of libertarianism says its ok to allow god in public schools and think it is ok to ban abortions or gay marriage as ron pauls thinks??

Some libertarians like to stress their socalled liberal/liberty views on social issues but their hero ayn rand and others stress theri hatred mostly of thenew deal and other programs that getin the way of big business making profits:robber baron economics. It is a ruse for their true agenda of freeing capitalism fro the capitalists/the robber barons/the plutocrats. They would like to go back to pre new deal days, even pre TR days . To the robber baron days where there was no resistance to this guilded age of greed, no unions, no pesky govt regulators testing food or the air or water ,etc The days of bosses using thugs to deal with union supporters. Th days of panics and depressions ,. the days of no middle class,etc I could go on and on.

Fact is they cannot point to a single real life libert world to demonstrate what they want. It is a utopian dream just like communism only from the other side. Though i bet they did like what the dictator pinnochet did to chile in the 1970s and 80s!!

 

[wkmac]

You really think liberals are the same as socialists?? LOL, please liberals are capitalists with a heart. They are pro capitlism only with a view that the poorest among us should be helped because capitlaism leaves too many losers. Liberals big idea is inceasing the minimum wage;socialists think the entire profit system is evil and a minimum wage only helps the capitalists rule.

On libertariansim, they believ public libraries and schools and hospitals are socialism!! as well as public parks and squares. They also believe labor unions are evil because they impede capitalists from making more profits. They think that workers should not have a right to strike but should be subject to managements drug tests and no child labor laws??
And what part of libertarianism says its ok to allow god in public schools and think it is ok to ban abortions or gay marriage as ron pauls thinks??

Some libertarians like to stress their socalled liberal/liberty views on social issues but their hero ayn rand and others stress theri hatred mostly of thenew deal and other programs that getin the way of big business making profits:robber baron economics. It is a ruse for their true agenda of freeing capitalism fro the capitalists/the robber barons/the plutocrats. They would like to go back to pre new deal days, even pre TR days . To the robber baron days where there was no resistance to this guilded age of greed, no unions, no pesky govt regulators testing food or the air or water ,etc The days of bosses using thugs to deal with union supporters. Th days of panics and depressions ,. the days of no middle class,etc I could go on and on.

Fact is they cannot point to a single real life libert world to demonstrate what they want. It is a utopian dream just like communism only from the other side. Though i bet they did like what the dictator pinnochet did to chile in the 1970s and 80s!!

You are so utterly ignorant of facts and history it's just beyond belief. You truly deserve the tyranny and the boot in the face you will get. If you are so locked into mental infantilism as to throw out the nonsense above, I see no need to waste my time going over what I've documented in many posts on previous occasions. I leave you to your own ignorance!

I'm thankful some of the OWS folks and even a few "real" socialists I've met and had wonderful discussions with are vastly more open minded than you are but then they are anti-state as well so there you go? You gonna call them heartless names as well?

 

[wkmac]

Here mental midgets, open your minds for once!

Warning: Get on the train or get the off the tracks!

Answer this:



And yet the mega corporations all but finance the democrat and republican parties, a political construct you yourself defend at every turn and condemn those who walk away from the master of the plantation. Tell me, who is the one to blame for the tyranny of man?

 

[av8torntn]

Didn't Thomas Jefferson have libertarian leanings? Isn't he also viewed as a champion of public education in this nation?


"The tax which will be paid for [the] purpose [of education] isnot more than the thousandth part of what will be paid to kings,priests and nobles who will rise up among us if we leave the people in ignorance." --Thomas Jefferson to George Wythe, 1786.