LU 177 "selective" Seniority.

[By The Book]

Its bid for life if you want that route for life.....but you can come off at anytime to bid a different route

Out in Northern California it's your bid route until you give it up but you can't rebid for 6 months.

 

[By The Book]

If I have more seniority than him why wouldn't I be able to bump him.......why wouldn't the time I spent humping bundles give me the right to a more desirable delivery area

Are you talking about transferring to another building and using your seniority to bump a bid driver? If you were able to transfer, which isn't that common, you would be an unassigned driver because you haven't bid on any routes in the new building yet. In your scenario you would be placed into the correct spot on the seniority list until there was a route put up for bid. I don't think you'll ever bump a bid driver, you'll be awarded a route based on your seniority.

 

[By The Book]

Another stupid idea. My local all package car routes are up for bid every spring. It all goes very smoothly.
Bid for life? Asinine!

Kind of like picking vacations?, the top guys are still going to take what they want right?

 

[Inthegame]

I can't imagine having to rebid every year, as this route is mine, until I choose for it not to be.

And yet you see no iniquity with changing another local's practice that would allow someone outside of the classification to come in and take away some other Bubbleheads feeder route?

 

[Bubblehead]

And yet you see no iniquity with changing another local's practice that would allow someone outside of the classification to come in and take away some other Bubbleheads feeder route?

I absolutely see no inequity, as I believe the applicable "classification" is the "full time classification".
Whether it be any of the jobs within (ie. feeders, packages, or 22.2/22.3), it is my position that this seniority should be interchangeable and dovetailed when moving between these jobs within the "full time classification".

There is no scenario where I can be convinced that my 23 years of humping bundles as a full time package car driver should not count when changing jobs as a full time employee.
No way should a 5 year off street hire have bidding preference over me if I choose to bid a 22.3 or feeder job.

I get that somebody is going to lose with the proposed changes.
But in my opinion, these employees are only losing what they never should have had in the first place.
In the process, those who have been passed over will enjoy "equity" for what's left of their careers.

 

[ManInBrown]

Another stupid idea. My local all package car routes are up for bid every spring. It all goes very smoothly.
Bid for life? Asinine!

How is it asinine? Why would I want to give my route up? If someone retires or goes feeder route goes up for bid, and if I'm interested I try it out. Why would I want to lose my route?

 

[ManInBrown]

I absolutely see no inequity, as I believe the applicable "classification" is the "full time classification".
Whether it be any of the jobs within (ie. feeders, packages, or 22.2/22.3), it is my position that this seniority should be interchangeable and dovetailed when moving between these jobs within the "full time classification".

There is no scenario where I can be convinced that my 23 years of humping bundles as a full time package car driver should not count when changing jobs as a full time employee.
No way should a 5 year off street hire have bidding preference over me if I choose to bid a 22.3 or feeder job.

I get that somebody is going to lose with the proposed changes.
But in my opinion, these employees are only losing what they never should have had in the first place.
In the process, those who have been passed over will enjoy "equity" for what's left of their careers.

why wait 23 years to switch to feeder or 22.3? Is the wait that long where you are? We have drivers going feeder after 5 years with the company

 

[ManInBrown]

I have been on my bid route since 2000.
The way I see it, you make a route what you want it to be when you win a bid.

I can't imagine having to rebid every year, as this route is mine, until I choose for it not to be.

Bingo. I couldn't imagine routes going up for bid yearly. That would

 

[Bubblehead]

why wait 23 years to switch to feeder or 22.3? Is the wait that long where you are? We have drivers going feeder after 5 years with the company

Could have went 20 years ago, and have no immediate plans to go now.

Should I choose to at the next available opportunity in my Local, or any thereafter, my seniority will prevail....as it should.

It just seems so elementary to me, that by definition "seniority" provides for what I am advocating.

I continue to ask....to no avail:
"How can my 23 years of humping bundles count for nothing if I choose to bid a feeder job"?

Now I ask this question:
Why isn't this "inequitable" mindset, in these rogue locals, applied to the 22.2/22.3 "classification" for extra work and preferred positions/coverage for hub duties???

 

[Inthegame]

I get that somebody is going to lose with the proposed changes.

And that's my whole point. Whatever existing system is in place is fine. Changing it advantages someone at anothers expense. Not my idea of fair practice.

But in my opinion, these employees are only losing what they never should have had in the first place.

Sounds exactly like an employer position in bargaining.

In the process, those who have been passed over will enjoy "equity" for what's left of their careers.

How generous of you. I'm betting you wouldn't feel the same if you were the guy who worked nights for 23 years, finally got a day bid and now faces going back on the shady side with the proposed change.

 

[Inthegame]

Could have went 20 years ago, and have no immediate plans to go now.

Should I choose to at the next available opportunity in my Local, or any thereafter, my seniority will prevail....as it should.

Yep, and if a proposal to change to classification seniority was put, I'd be against that in your local.

It just seems so elementary to me, that by definition "seniority" provides for what I am advocating.

Seniority has different applications. Many union shops have department seniority for job selection and total (company) for vacation weeks.

 

[Bubblehead]

And that's my whole point. Whatever existing system is in place is fine. Changing it advantages someone at anothers expense. Not my idea of fair practice.

It's not fine or "fair", because the prior system was..."unfair".
The premise that one must back a bad decision (precedence) has been the demise of many riverboat gamblers....and it is an inherent weakness of our Union.

How generous of you. I'm betting you wouldn't feel the same if you were the guy who worked nights for 23 years, finally got a day bid and now faces going back on the shady side with the proposed change.

I'll take that bet, because as I said, I have no immediate plan to make a move.

In the end though, I'll bet that 23 year feeder driver wouldn't be willing to turn back the clock and trade places with me....

....which is often easily assumed by their body type, and because they already made that decision 23 years ago???

Taking the easy way out, often comes with a price?

Yep, and if a proposal to change to classification seniority was put, I'd be against that in your local.

So would I, but because it wouldn't be "equitable" for the majority, not because I'm worried about a select few...or myself.

Thankfully, the vast majority of the Central Region already has it right.
Hopefully the rest of the country will wake up and follow suit?

Seniority has different applications. Many union shops have department seniority for job selection and total (company) for vacation weeks.

We aren't talking about other "union shops", we are talking about UPS, who operates under the premise of a National Master, but operates with "inequitable" autonomy.

I propose we tighten up our game?

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

It's not fine or "fair", because the prior system was..."unfair".
The premise that one must back a bad decision (precedence) has been the demise of many riverboat gamblers....and it is an inherent weakness of our Union.

I'll take that bet, because as I said, I have no immediate plan to make a move.

In the end though, I'll bet that 23 year feeder driver wouldn't be willing to turn back the clock and trade places with me....

....which is often easily assumed by their body type, and because they already made that decision 23 years ago???

Taking the easy way out, often comes with a price?

So would I, but because it wouldn't be "equitable" for the majority, not because I'm worried about a select few...or myself.

Thankfully, the vast majority of the Central Region already has it right.
Hopefully the rest of the country will wake up and follow suit?

We aren't talking about other "union shops", we are talking about UPS, who operates under the premise of a National Master, but operates with "inequitable" autonomy.

I propose we tighten up our game?

If a 30 package driver transfers into your center do you feel that all routes should be rebid so that his seniority will prevail

 

[Jones]

If a 30 package driver transfers into your center do you feel that all routes should be rebid so that his seniority will prevail

Around here he'd get to pick whatever he wanted on the annual bid. Seen it happen plenty of times.

 

[Bubblehead]

If a 30 package driver transfers into your center do you feel that all routes should be rebid so that his seniority will prevail

No, I'm saying his seniority would dovetail and prevail accordingly in any and all subsequent bids, but certainly should not trigger a complete rebid across the board.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

How is it asinine? Why would I want to give my route up? If someone retires or goes feeder route goes up for bid, and if I'm interested I try it out. Why would I want to lose my route?

"Your route" "Your customers" etc.
It's UPS's, you are just filing the shoes. This is why I like annual and bi-annual bidding. No one should be too comfortable, enough to say they own something.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

When I first started we were encouraged to take ownership of our route, referring to it as "our route" with "our customers".

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

No, I'm saying his seniority would dovetail and prevail accordingly in any and all subsequent bids, but certainly should not trigger a complete rebid across the board.

But he has seniority on you and he's been humping bundles longer than you why should his seniority not count when he picks a bid......are you saying it wouldn't be fair to you because you've been on that route for years and for him to come in and take you off of it just being in the center for one day.......just remember his seniority should count he has more years with the company why should you be able to hold that route just because you've been in the center longer than him?

 

[Bubblehead]

But he has seniority on you and he's been humping bundles longer than you why should his seniority not count when he picks a bid......are you saying it wouldn't be fair to you because you've been on that route for years and for him to come in and take you off of it just being in the center for one day.......just remember his seniority should count he has more years with the company why should you be able to hold that route just because you've been in the center longer than him?

His seniority will be recognized when a bid is posted and he chooses to submit a bid.
In feeders, here, all runs are bid within "groups" weekly (ie. Chicago group).
Feeder drivers can also choose to be on the "pick list" and choose whatever is left, like vacation coverage or call ins, etc.
Once qualified, I would quickly choose my group and run within, and yes, somebody with less seniority may have to choose what's left as the chips fall.
If I want to go back to packages or 22.3, the only way to do that is to bid a specific job after satisfying the 3 year commitment to feeders.
Same applies if I'm presently working in packages or 22.3 and am feeder qualified.
To go back to feeders, I must bid back in.

In the end, anybody with more seniority than me has had every opportunity to bid on everything I have and will.


I'm not sure if you are purposely trying to be aloof, or are just unintentionally obtuse?

 

[oldupsman]

Kind of like picking vacations?, the top guys are still going to take what they want right?

They can if they want. Personally I made it a point to only take 4 of my 6 weeks during the summer to give the
younger guys a chance to get a summer week. Why? Because I'm a nice guy. Were all the older guys nice guys? No.

How is it asinine? Why would I want to give my route up? If someone retires or goes feeder route goes up for bid, and if I'm interested I try it out. Why would I want to lose my route?

Who's talking about giving up your route? The yearly bid comes up, you decide to keep your route, keep your route.
You decide to make a change and try something else, go ahead.

Bingo. I couldn't imagine routes going up for bid yearly. That would

Why? Honestly, I don't understand the problem. Because someone with more seniority would take your route?
Well then find a new route. That's why it's called SENIORITY!

If a 30 package driver transfers into your center do you feel that all routes should be rebid so that his seniority will prevail

Well the 30 driver can only bid into your center on the bid that was posted. So when he bids in that's the run he gets.
But when the yearly bids come up then he can bid any route he wants.