Management that smokes, 3 days until cold turkey

[beentheredonethat]

I've seen plenty "forced out" over the years.
Several District Mgr and even more Level 20 and countless 18s.
It was always published as they left for personal reasons or the such but they were effectively fired.

I've also seen many (several dozen) Div Mgrs (18s) demoted, a few Level 20s and four District managers demoted.

Was it for performance? Or were the issues with them screwing the numbers? Or the help? I have seen people leave for those reasons. Just not for poor numbers.

 

[Catatonic]

Was it for performance? Or were the issues with them screwing the numbers? Or the help? I have seen people leave for those reasons. Just not for poor numbers.

Poor numbers, poor performance, poor business decisions, insubordination, inappropropriate language along with screwing with #'s and other sex.

On the fl​ip side, I've seen sups and center managers keep their job when doing the above.

 

[beentheredonethat]

Poor numbers, poor performance, poor business decisions, insubordination, inappropropriate language along with screwing with #'s and other sex.

On the fl​ip side, I've seen sups and center managers keep their job when doing the above.

So it doesn't sound much different then what the union guys mention. A guy with a good production numbers mgmt tends to ignore any other deficiencies. However, a high paid over driver that does it is targeted. The numbers made him a target, but they got him on the screwing the numbers\help etc.
​

 

[frateshkr]

How about a big thank you in the form of over $100,000 per year total compensation per full-time employee?

​Give the part-timers a turkey though!

Yup, too bad that UPS agreed to all those cost ineffective contracts over the years with these marginal drivers and pt folks that pretty much lounge around all shift. Scott Davis has had to come in and try to start cleaning house to right the ship and it's too bad he's also catching some management perks in the net but that's the price for not taking the gun out of Ron Carey's hand in 97 and just locking everybody out. Got all the faith I need in Davis. Just look how he handled the OPL saga. Masterful work. Let them eat turkey.

 

[soberups]

The thing that bothered me the most is that UPS just signed an agreement with "our employees" and for 5 years they get contractually better insurance (at lower cost) then we do. That's ridiculous.

​

No...thats collective bargaining.

 

[texan]

It was all UPS..... Was it?

Another ObamaCare glitch, computer problem temporarily limits penalties for smokers

Some smokers trying to get coverage next year under President Barack Obama's health care law may get a break from tobacco-use penalties that could have made their premiums unaffordable.

The Obama administration — in yet another health care overhaul delay — has quietly notified insurers that
a computer system glitch will limit penalties that the law says the companies may charge smokers.

A fix will take at least a year to put in place.


Read more: Another ObamaCare glitch, computer problem temporarily limits penalties for smokers | Fox News

 

[Bagels]

In the last 10 years I've seen District Managers, Ops Mgrs and Ctr Mgrs demoted for performance issues....None fired but plenty harassed to the point of leaving.

Was it for performance? Or were the issues with them screwing the numbers? Or the help? I have seen people leave for those reasons. Just not for poor numbers.

We've had at least two DM demoted to FT supervisor (one Preload, one dispatch) in our building; both concede their demotions were over poor numbers. Several years ago during peak the one on Preload was required to report to work late evening -- he insisted it was being done as a punishment, and retired soon after. The dispatch one gets into it with everybody -- e.g. one of our CMs once told him 'don't tell me how to do my job ... if you knew how to do it, you'd still be my boss' (he was actually DM in another area).

 

[gingerkat]

but apparently there's a medical-type credit bureau in which this stuff (and everything else regarding your health in which insurance was utilized on) is reported to.

True, but needs clarification. It's called the Medical Information Bureau (MIB) and it's like a super pages for insurance companies, especially the underwriting department to determine cost of your premium. All insurance companies subscribe and some doctors do as well, but your doctors may not disclose any information without written consent from you. The information on the MIB is usually gathered from prior health, life or disability insurance applications that you fill out and stored there for seven years. Be aware other information such as your bad habits (i.e. smoking/overweight), dangerous hobbies/ jobs will also be applied as they have a bearing on your premium.

I think everyone should request of copy of your MIB, if you even have one. Many coding errors are made and you could be paying for something that isn't correct. It's free and you get one every year if you choose.

 

[beentheredonethat]

We've had at least two DM demoted to FT supervisor (one Preload, one dispatch) in our building; both concede their demotions were over poor numbers. Several years ago during peak the one on Preload was required to report to work late evening -- he insisted it was being done as a punishment, and retired soon after. The dispatch one gets into it with everybody -- e.g. one of our CMs once told him 'don't tell me how to do my job ... if you knew how to do it, you'd still be my boss' (he was actually DM in another area).

Let me ask you this, if you were a division mgr and got demoted over fudging numbers, or something similar. Would you tell people that you lied and cheated, or would you tell people it was because performance was bad? Now, I'll be the first one to say that two different people that do the same thing can be treated differently because one has good numbers and one has bad numbers. However, usually the unethical issues is what ultimately gets them.

 

[worldwide]

True, but needs clarification. It's called the Medical Information Bureau (MIB) and it's like a super pages for insurance companies, especially the underwriting department to determine cost of your premium. All insurance companies subscribe and some doctors do as well, but your doctors may not disclose any information without written consent from you. The information on the MIB is usually gathered from prior health, life or disability insurance applications that you fill out and stored there for seven years. Be aware other information such as your bad habits (i.e. smoking/overweight), dangerous hobbies/ jobs will also be applied as they have a bearing on your premium.

I think everyone should request of copy of your MIB, if you even have one. Many coding errors are made and you could be paying for something that isn't correct. It's free and you get one every year if you choose.

Thanks for the info. Interestng stuff. From the MIB site:

"Individuals will not have an MIB Consumer File unless they have applied for individually underwritten life, health, disability income, critical illness or long-term care insurance with an MIB member company in the last seven years. Many individuals do not have an MIB Consumer File because of one or more of the following: (i) they applied to an insurance company that was not an MIB member; (ii) they applied for insurance that was not individually underwritten; or (iii) they applied for insurance more than seven years ago. MIB removes information reported by member insurance companies from your Consumer File after seven years.

As a practical matter, MIB codes are not typically reported on individuals who are in good health, meaning that their life and health insurance applications are approved by the insurer as standard or preferred risks."

 

[Bagels]

Let me ask you this, if you were a division mgr and got demoted over fudging numbers, or something similar. Would you tell people that you lied and cheated, or would you tell people it was because performance was bad? Now, I'll be the first one to say that two different people that do the same thing can be treated differently because one has good numbers and one has bad numbers. However, usually the unethical issues is what ultimately gets them.

You may very well be right, but think about what you're saying. Compare it to hourly - as the union doesn't recognize production, when management wants to move or replace unproductive employees, it has to get creative. For example, in my building, an irreg driver with a reputation for being slow was recently pulled for not putting highlight tape on all six sides of each over 70. Meanwhile, most of the other irreg drivers don't put any tape on any package. Thus, it's very reasonable to say the irreg driver was pulled for his production, even though "officially" it was for faux reasoning.

One other thing I'll suggest is that at UPS, when an employee is disciplined, suspended, fired, demoted, whatever... the reasoning spreads like a wildfire. One thing I've always resented about UPS is that nothing stays private or discreet -- everybody soon leans about everything. And often, it fringes on people's privacy / HIPPA laws.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

One other thing I'll suggest is that at UPS, when an employee is disciplined, suspended, fired, demoted, whatever... the reasoning spreads like a wildfire. One thing I've always resented about UPS is that nothing stays private or discreet -- everybody soon leans about everything. And often, it fringes on people's privacy / HIPPA laws.

This "game" can be "played" both ways. I can assure you, 200% certain.

 

[BSWALKS]

This "game" can be "played" both ways. I can assure you, 200% certain.

I love the disinformation game. It's saved my ass more than once.

 

[SignificantOwner]

Nothing to do with the government.

​UPS did this all on its own.

It has much to do with the government. Obamacare specifically allows for it. The government is so messed up that they keep changing the rules for next year, including new developments on smoking issues. The question is will UPS change anything if a change is made to Obama Care that delays costs by a year or more. This administration is a disaster. I sort of feel sorry for our execs for having to deal with them. I'll bet they're furious behind closed doors.

Obamacare glitch might be helpful for smokers:
Obamacare Smoker Penalty Delayed Due To Glitch: Administration Stands By Healthcare Reforms Despite Setbacks : Policy/Biz : Medical Daily
​
California has the smoker's backs:
California Moves To Protect Smokers From Higher Obamacare Insurance Costs - Kaiser Health News

 

[Bagels]

It has much to do with the government. Obamacare specifically allows for it. The government is so messed up that they keep changing the rules for next year, including new developments on smoking issues. The question is will UPS change anything if a change is made to Obama Care that delays costs by a year or more. This administration is a disaster. I sort of feel sorry for our execs for having to deal with them. I'll bet they're furious behind closed doors. <snip>

Just another example of a fallacy. No evidence exists to support that UPS's decision was motivated by ObamaCare, yet you're confident it was. Perhaps the people that were "furious" are UPS's front-line managerial employees who were told that they had days to stop smoking, or else pay stiff penalties.

I have a soda addiction in the sense that I crave a Coke in order to relax, or reduce stress (about 24-36 oz. each day -- but I don't drink alcohol or use tobacco). If you were to give me until the end of the year to kick the habit, I would make a valiant effort to transition toward alternate libations. But give me until next week...? Not. Gonna. Happen.

 

[brownmonster]

Just another example of a fallacy. No evidence exists to support that UPS's decision was motivated by ObamaCare, yet you're confident it was. Perhaps the people that were "furious" are UPS's front-line managerial employees who were told that they had days to stop smoking, or else pay stiff penalties.

I have a soda addiction in the sense that I crave a Coke in order to relax, or reduce stress (about 24-36 oz. each day -- but I don't drink alcohol or use tobacco). If you were to give me until the end of the year to kick the habit, I would make a valiant effort to transition toward alternate libations. But give me until next week...? Not. Gonna. Happen.

When I transition to alternate libations, it usually means my belly is full of beer and its time to switch to whiskey.

 

[SignificantOwner]

Just another example of a fallacy. No evidence exists to support that UPS's decision was motivated by ObamaCare, yet you're confident it was. Perhaps the people that were "furious" are UPS's front-line managerial employees who were told that they had days to stop smoking, or else pay stiff penalties.

I have a soda addiction in the sense that I crave a Coke in order to relax, or reduce stress (about 24-36 oz. each day -- but I don't drink alcohol or use tobacco). If you were to give me until the end of the year to kick the habit, I would make a valiant effort to transition toward alternate libations. But give me until next week...? Not. Gonna. Happen.

You totally missed the point. UPS and many other employers are nailing smokers because Obamacare prevents insurers from charging higher premiums based on risk in most cases. One of the exceptions is smokers. Insurers are allowed to charge smokers higher premiums. This is one of the few groups that Obamacare has allowed insurers to target. UPS is not forced to do so, but of course they do (hey, all the other companies are doing it!) This is exactly what the administration wanted to happen. How long will it be before we have to say whether or not we have a gun in our homes? Gun owners have higher medical costs they'll say. This health care law will turn out to be a very powerful behavior control tool in the hands of the government. Greedy companies will always comply when given the opportunity to target specific groups and cut costs.

​

 

[Bagels]

My apologies - I connected your argument to an earlier assertion.

But I still believe your argument is a classic fallacy. Given the uncertainty of the financial impact of ObamaCare on UPS, it's unlikely UPS would make any drastic changes disenfranchising its professional employee group based on what could ultimately be false assumptions. While it's convenient for people who disagree with Obama & ObamaCare to direct their anger toward it -- and some companies will play off these feelings -- it's more likely that UPS's decision was based on controlling routine costs. Health care costs have been soaring for over 30 years, and UPS's aging workforce has made it more volatile toward increases. In the last contract, UPS was able to curtail some of these costs by moving much of its workforce to a PPO option. This contract, it was hopeful that the IBT would agree to have its membership contribute toward some of the costs, but UPS wasn't successful. Without question, the impending contract was more costly that UPS had hoped it'd be. And, unfortunately, low- and mid- level managerial/professional employee groups are going to be the ones making the scarifies.

I concede that you may be right (it's over ObamaCare) -- but I think my argument is more plausible.

You totally missed the point. UPS and many other employers are nailing smokers because Obamacare prevents insurers from charging higher premiums based on risk in most cases. One of the exceptions is smokers. Insurers are allowed to charge smokers higher premiums. This is one of the few groups that Obamacare has allowed insurers to target. UPS is not forced to do so, but of course they do (hey, all the other companies are doing it!) This is exactly what the administration wanted to happen. How long will it be before we have to say whether or not we have a gun in our homes? Gun owners have higher medical costs they'll say. This health care law will turn out to be a very powerful behavior control tool in the hands of the government. Greedy companies will always comply when given the opportunity to target specific groups and cut costs.

​

 

[BMWMC]

Does crack or meth smoking count? Cause there a lot of that going on in management.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

(hey, all the other companies are doing it!)
​

It's UPS shoving their big brown boots on mgmt throats saying, "we own you". Beating around the bush are we?