Nation of Islam

[refineryworker05]

I ask you all this question as well. Are things not better in terms of racism than they were 20 years ago? 40 years ago? My mother raised me to look at people as people, not by skin color, my father, not so much. The hate is as ingrained in each culture by the older generations as much as the next. My kids call people by these terms, "peach", "brown", "light brown", "kind of peach". Raising our kids as open minded and accepting as possible is our only hope.

I guess that depends on what you use to measure progress. If you look at things like residential racial segregation, if you look at things like wealth, and earnings, if you look at things like political power, if you look at things like corporate power, If you look at things like criminal justice, access to a quality education, Progress has been made, but it is relatively tiny in the face of these gigantic persistent racial disparities.

I think many Americans don't really want to know, and I don't think they actually know just how big and broad racial disparities are in this nation on every measure.

I think they just want to pretend well that happened in the past and laws were passed and we have moved on. So for those Americans, I think they look at certain symbolic things and anecdotal stories about how they were raised and how they imagine other people "feel" about other groups of Americans to measure progress.

Symbolism, anecdotal stories, and good feelings are important measures, but to me they take a back seat to actually measuring progress using concrete statistics.

 

[refineryworker05]

I've always thought that the way people act is more important than what they look like. We all have more in common with each other than differences. We all want food, clothing, shelter, and somebody to love us. We may have different tastes in things like food or music for instance, but there is nothing wrong with that. Bigots come in all sizes, shapes, and colors. Hate is something that is taught from one generation to another. We need to stop making excuses and end it.

I appreciate the sentiment, but it doesn't really get to the crux of the problem I don't think.

The reality and it is a tough reality is that racial identity has value in this nation. Being identified by this nation as a certain race gets you treated vastly differently in this nation.

And racial identity from its beginning in this nation has worked to convey huge advantage to some and huge disadvantage to others and the people who gained the huge advantages want to keep those advantages and that's why racial identity continues to exist in this nation.

Because being identified as a white American or a Black American on average will lead to profoundly different experiences and opportunities.

Until people understand this fact and understand which group benefits from the maintenance of racial identity and understand that group along with others must seek to destroy the fraudulent belief in race.... the kind of progress you want will be slow motion in this nation.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

worst
thread
ever

 

[Big Package]

Before the transatlantic slave trade this idea of a shared identity based on skin color or race and racial inferiority and superiority didn't exist in the world.

 

[scratch]

I appreciate the sentiment, but it doesn't really get to the crux of the problem I don't think.

The reality and it is a tough reality is that racial identity has value in this nation. Being identified by this nation as a certain race gets you treated vastly differently in this nation.

And racial identity from its beginning in this nation has worked to convey huge advantage to some and huge disadvantage to others and the people who gained the huge advantages want to keep those advantages and that's why racial identity continues to exist in this nation.

Because being identified as a white American or a Black American on average will lead to profoundly different experiences and opportunities.

Until people understand this fact and understand which group benefits from the maintenance of racial identity and understand that group along with others must seek to destroy the fraudulent belief in race.... the kind of progress you want will be slow motion in this nation.

True, I was racially discriminated against through Affirmative Action policies in the late 70's after I graduated from high school. My local postmaster told me they were doing a massive hiring in Atlanta, I was refused an application when I went down to the main office. I also went to the Plumbers and Pipefitters Local my older brother worked at, I was refused an application because they had to have a certain racial quota to bid on jobs. So there are two sides to every scenario.

Growing up in the Atlanta area and home to MLK, I think my hometown handled the Civil Rights Movement peacefully. I'll admit that I still see racism sometimes, but we always seemed to tolerate each other for the most part. I started working for UPS in 1975 at the very same building the original poster stated this incident happened. I never counted people by race, but it seemed to be about a 50/50 ratio of black and white. I live and work in areas where I am considered the minority. I haven't heard anything myself about this particular incident.

 

[scratch]

worst
thread
ever

My first thought when I read this thread was to delete it. I don't know if this incident is true and maybe somebody is just trying to stir things up. Racism is a touchy subject that most people feel uncomfortable talking about. I can't say that I know the best way to discuss it. We all come with different perspectives about things like this.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

My first thought when I read this thread was to delete it. I don't know if this incident is true and maybe somebody is just trying to stir things up. Racism is a touchy subject that most people feel uncomfortable talking about. I can't say that I know the best way to discuss it. We all come with different perspectives about things like this.

I wish I could pull off a black chick.
Maybe if I found a really dorky one I could make it happen.
Probably not, I'm so white.

 

[Big Package]

Maybe it's because I've eaten too many mushrooms or because I've gotten older. But at the end of the day, when all is said and done, I really don't care what gender, race, color or creed someone is. Just don't be an , leave people alone who aren't hurting anybody, and just live and let live. If you treat others how you'd like to be treated, you'll end up surrounding yourself with positive people who also treat others well, and you will all be the better for it.

 

[Big Package]

True, I was racially discriminated against through Affirmative Action policies in the late 70's after I graduated from high school. My local postmaster told me they were doing a massive hiring in Atlanta, I was refused an application when I went down to the main office. I also went to the Plumbers and Pipefitters Local my older brother worked at, I was refused an application because they had to have a certain racial quota to bid on jobs. So there are two sides to every scenario.

Growing up in the Atlanta area and home to MLK, I think my hometown handled the Civil Rights Movement peacefully. I'll admit that I still see racism sometimes, but we always seemed to tolerate each other for the most part. I started working for UPS in 1975 at the very same building the original poster stated this incident happened. I never counted people by race, but it seemed to be about a 50/50 ratio of black and white. I live and work in areas where I am considered the minority. I haven't heard anything myself about this particular incident.

In the late 70s to mid-late 80s, it was impossible to become a firefighter, police officer, or EMS if you were white. Stations and precincts were filling quotas and so the hospitals followed suit. My uncle told me for every 8 guys they hired, only two could be white. There was a big "whites need not apply" scandal at an AETNA headquarters near me in the 90s.

White males in the working class and above, ages 30 to 60, are the largest marginalized group and is always the target of racial issues because it's all our fault. People are idiots.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

White males in the working class and above, ages 30 to 60, are the largest marginalized group

lol

 

[Nothing by 1030 anymore]

good ole (supposedly) entitled union employee...

Good ole contract agreed on by management

 

[refineryworker05]

This is an objective fact. Race as an idea has a beginning and it is a relatively new idea compared to the whole of human existence.

In fact, human history is filled with people who look just alike, who live close to one another killing and warring with each other. They had no concept that oh my skin color is apart of my identity and that skin color connects my identity with others with the same skin color.

The Germans didn't think they were the French, the Japnanese, don't think they are the Chinese, Nigerians don't think they are the same as Ghanians, etc.

This is belief in a shared identity based on race or skin color was adopted during the transatlantic slave trade.

 

[dookie stain]

To the extent this is true, that race and gender benefits someone seeking employment, the overwhelmingly reality is that this benefits white men in general in the labor market.

I can't speak to UPS as a place of employment, but I work in a petroleum refinery, I have worked for the Railroads, UP(freight car repairer), and Norfolk southern(signal maintainer).

All of those places are dominated by white men and its not even close. White men are like what 35% of the population and that's includes many white men that are babies, children, teens, and college age adults and the elderly. So adult white men who are working might be I don't know maybe 20-25% of the total population( I am guessing on that stat).

Yet, every "blue collar" job I have ever had has been dominated by white men. The idea that this is some accident or that white men are just "better"..... is just fantasy, the idea that others can't be pipe fitters or welders or carpenters or electricians or operators or etc is nonsense, so the question becomes why aren't they there?

Yet, even surrounded by other white men in these jobs, many white men that I work with are convinced that other people have a leg up on them. It is an amazing thing to behold the logic. Ok, 90% of supervisors in the company are white and male, 85% of my co workers are white and male, but the company has a preference for women or black women or gay people or black people or Mexicans or etc.

All I say to these men is look around, its ok to have a theory about employers favoring one group over another, but at some point reality has to match your theory or else you are just a bigot, if your theory is that these certain groups are preferred and yet year after year after year after year, those people you say are preferred aren't actually getting hired..... what are you saying at that point? why do you hold on to this clearly false belief?

Well simple math would answer your question. If the United States is predominantly white...then of course more people at a workplace will be white...higher percentage of white people in the country=higher percentage of whites everywhere you go.

 

[dookie stain]

The idea that marginalized groups have more power to get away with bad behavior has zero basis in reality. Historically, the racist viewpoint has always been convinced that black people are getting away with murder, bad behavior have some kind of leg up on hard working deserving people, etc. It is an extremely common racist belief throughout this nation's history.

Ive seen it first hand countless times..."it's cause I'm black. They did this to me cause I'm black" uh no.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Ive seen it first hand countless times..."it's cause I'm black. They did this to me cause I'm black" uh no.

If only george wallace wouldn't have been such a P* at the university of alabama this might not have been a problem.

 

[DumbTruckDriver]

If only george wallace wouldn't have been such a P* at the university of alabama this might not have been a problem.

Forrest Gump showed him the error of his ways.

 

[scratch]

I'm going to move this thread over to Current Events because I think it has morphed into something more than just a workplace topic.

 

[refineryworker05]

True, I was racially discriminated against through Affirmative Action policies in the late 70's after I graduated from high school. My local postmaster told me they were doing a massive hiring in Atlanta, I was refused an application when I went down to the main office. I also went to the Plumbers and Pipefitters Local my older brother worked at, I was refused an application because they had to have a certain racial quota to bid on jobs. So there are two sides to every scenario.

Growing up in the Atlanta area and home to MLK, I think my hometown handled the Civil Rights Movement peacefully. I'll admit that I still see racism sometimes, but we always seemed to tolerate each other for the most part. I started working for UPS in 1975 at the very same building the original poster stated this incident happened. I never counted people by race, but it seemed to be about a 50/50 ratio of black and white. I live and work in areas where I am considered the minority. I haven't heard anything myself about this particular incident.

White men as a group have higher employment rates, and make more money when compared to similarly educated black men in the same careers. They did a study and found that black male physicians made $60,000 per year less than white male physicians. When even black physicians face this level of discrimination.....

I wish this weren't true. I wish we had parity or justice or whatever but we don't.

Plus people don't actually care about people being given a leg up in life that systematically benefits one group over another, we expect it.

So in the trades men get their sons and relatives in those jobs all the time, basically if your dad or granddad is an electrician you have a better chance to become an electrician and find steady work. It is a huge unearned advantage.

Black people historically were kept out of the trades, so their dads and grandfathers are far less likely to have gotten those jobs, or made those connections. So because those jobs are still dominated by who you know... its not difficult to understand the systematic disadvantage towards black people seeking those jobs, but that's life right.

Women out perform men in high school by a lot. So nearly every university right now has affirmative action for male students to keep the universities from being too female.

I wonder when I'll hear the cries of oh the discrimination against women in university admittance.

I just want people treated fairly. It is not happening in America. And it hurts the lives of millions of Americans.
Please before you doubt this go look at employment stats by education and race and be amazed at what you see. And that's just one area of American life.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Women out perform men in high school by a lot. So nearly every university right now has affirmative action for male students to keep the universities from being too female.

I wonder when I'll hear the cries of oh the discrimination against women in university admittance.

You're telling me the gender ratio should rightfully lean more female in higher education? So basically, the government went out of it's way to make it harder for me to get laid in college..... cock blocking in the name of equality.... not cool.

 

[MyTripisCut]

I guess that depends on what you use to measure progress. If you look at things like residential racial segregation, if you look at things like wealth, and earnings, if you look at things like political power, if you look at things like corporate power, If you look at things like criminal justice, access to a quality education, Progress has been made, but it is relatively tiny in the face of these gigantic persistent racial disparities.

I think many Americans don't really want to know, and I don't think they actually know just how big and broad racial disparities are in this nation on every measure.

I think they just want to pretend well that happened in the past and laws were passed and we have moved on. So for those Americans, I think they look at certain symbolic things and anecdotal stories about how they were raised and how they imagine other people "feel" about other groups of Americans to measure progress.

Symbolism, anecdotal stories, and good feelings are important measures, but to me they take a back seat to actually measuring progress using concrete statistics.

I just don't see this hard luck based on race alone. My family was lower middle class. Divorced parents. Been on welfare with my mother. A lot of my family was and still are drug users. A lot have made bad decisions their entire lives. A lot of them live life in a much lower income level than my wife and kids and I do. A lot of what your saying makes it seem like I only made it because I'm white. Not because of any decisions I made along the way. I don't believe that. I didn't grow up in a ghetto, but it's not impossible to better yourself either.