Negotiating Paused

[burrheadd]

Reddit is down so I thought I would come here and offer a little "knowledge".

It is obvious to me what the Company is trying to do. They agreed to the AC "concession" in order to gain public favor but the reality is that they are not required to retrofit any of the existing fleet (two vans and additional vents) but rather must install AC in any new vehicles put in to service on or after 1/1/24, which means they will order a ton of new vehicles before the end of this year and slowly integrate them in to the fleet, beginning in our southern states. BTW, do those white, motion activated fans in the roofs do anything to reduce the heat in the cargo area or are they more of a public relations optic? They appear to be attempting an end around by eliminating the 22.4's and replacing them with a greatly reduced proposed "top rate" of $32/hr (with GWI raises) for those who complete their progression or on after 8/1/23, which has led to the confusion from some younger drivers as to whether their pay will be cut $10/hr----it won't. I never understood the $10-11/hr bump when progression was completed and tried to advise those who were comfortable at their current wage to throw the "extra" in to their 401k's. As has been stated earlier, Carol Tome has identified labor as the single largest cost that the Company (and most companies) has (have) to deal with. She is 100% correct----$100K (or more) for a job that requires only a HS diploma and valid driver's license is absurd. To that end, the Company has proposed significantly reducing "top rate" from $42/hr to $32.hr. While I don't see the $32/hr sticking, I do see a number in the $35-36/hr range in the final agreement. While it will take some time to "get rid of" those top rate drivers, whether through attrition, retirement or performance/production terminations, the end goal will be a much leaner operation in regard to labor cost, which will make the shareholders happy. Yes, production/performance will become even more of a "thing" in this agreement and you know that the "slugs" and "problem children" will have a target on their backs.

Amazon and FedEx Ground have both proven that the job can be adequately performed without $100K drivers.

The Company's economic proposal was a joke. 5 years of meager split raises with COLA only during the last two years is unprecedented and unacceptable. The Company saves a ton of money with split raises. I will admit that I chuckled when I read predictions from some of the more optimistic members here of annual raises in the $1-2/hr range. Well, it is pretty clear that the raises won't be anywhere near those numbers. I predict that the final numbers will be in the $.60-.75/hr area (not split) or $.80-$1/hr (split) for each year of the 5 year deal. The pensions have been bailed out----CSPF received a handout of $35B with an additional $5B to come when their supplemental application is approved----and are projected to have balances sufficient to pay benefits through at least 2051. Mine (NYST) was bailed out in late 2022----pensions restored 11/1/22 with lump sum "back pay" disbursed 3/1/23---nice rollover to my IRA. On a side note, I have to wonder if the Company will get any of the $6.1B that they paid to bailout CSPF back.

PVD's are not going anywhere. Those PC's without forward and driver facing cameras will have them installed within the first two years of this agreement. Taking pictures of all DR's without contact, which Amazon does with no issue, will become a standard method and will prove invaluable when closing out DFU's. "Stop, drop, click, roll."

I have heard talk of an additional vacation week and a paid day off for Juneteenth. Neither is going to happen.

Sean's tough guy stance may work in Boston but is going over like a ton of bricks in DC. His "48 hour mandate" is a joke. Both sides have shown their hole/hold cards. They must now work together to find common ground between the ridiculous economic proposals offered by the Company----way too low----and the Union----way too high. $60B - $9B = a lot of work to do without a whole lot of time left in which to do it. I do see them reaching a handshake agreement in principle NLT 7/10-15 with the Union agreeing to extend the current agreement beyond 7/30 until the new agreement can be reviewed and voted on at the local level. Yes, there would be "back pay" if this process extends beyond 8/1. Paychecks will not be interrupted. Life will go on.

Ryan Seacrest was not my first choice.

The world according to “Nancy”

 

[Redtag]

A lot of uneducated people work hard with long hours and will never earn $100k/year. Quit feeling so entitled.

How am I feeling entitled? The first sentance in my post is I am not a driver... I am also not a teamster, I am here defending people I see working hard and just asking for a fair raise and not to see the next generation get bent over.

You say many work hard for a lot less than 100k, this is very true, we should work to bring those people upto a better existence rather than trying to tear down the few remaining good earning jobs for non elites.

Over the last 40 years or so this country has seen executive and top end professional pay skyrocket while the middle class continues to shrink. Most households need 2 earners in the house to achieve the standard of living that was once able to be achieved in a single income household. There is data out there that shows the decline of unions is directly related, in a non union workplace the worker has no say in the wages and benefits other than quiting, organized labor is why our people make what they make and the threat of a labor stoppage and harassment of any sort of scab labor brought in is the biggest tool the unionized worker has.

 

[Redtag]

Where did I mention replacement workers?

There will be a handshake early to mid July and you will continue to work under the current contract.

It's not my contract, I am in the machinist union, my contract is valid until Aug of 24 but we are going to back the teamsters should they strike.

Anyway, I hope a compromise is made but I strongly encourage anyone to vote no on any two tiered contract. It's divisive in the workplace, and its a race to the bottom

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It's not my contract, I am in the machinist union, my contract is valid until Aug of 24 but we are going to back the teamsters should they strike.

Anyway, I hope a compromise is made but I strongly encourage anyone to vote no on any two tiered contract. It's divisive in the workplace, and its a race to the bottom

The Company needs to rein in their labor costs now in order to remain viable in the future.

 

[DELACROIX]

A lot of uneducated people work hard with long hours and will never earn $100k/year. Quit feeling so entitled.

I don’t know where you work .. fact is that most of our package car drivers are highly educated, some of them have their Masters.

Most of us were hired in as part timers, it took an average of 8 years to obtain enough seniority to sign a full time bid. Consider that as an apprenticeship..in order to qualify for a driving position takes a lot of skill and smarts.

Did you ever try in your 45 year career?

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

Reddit is down so I thought I would come here and offer a little "knowledge".

It is obvious to me what the Company is trying to do. They agreed to the AC "concession" in order to gain public favor but the reality is that they are not required to retrofit any of the existing fleet (two vans and additional vents) but rather must install AC in any new vehicles put in to service on or after 1/1/24, which means they will order a ton of new vehicles before the end of this year and slowly integrate them in to the fleet, beginning in our southern states. BTW, do those white, motion activated fans in the roofs do anything to reduce the heat in the cargo area or are they more of a public relations optic? They appear to be attempting an end around by eliminating the 22.4's and replacing them with a greatly reduced proposed "top rate" of $32/hr (with GWI raises) for those who complete their progression or on after 8/1/23, which has led to the confusion from some younger drivers as to whether their pay will be cut $10/hr----it won't. I never understood the $10-11/hr bump when progression was completed and tried to advise those who were comfortable at their current wage to throw the "extra" in to their 401k's. As has been stated earlier, Carol Tome has identified labor as the single largest cost that the Company (and most companies) has (have) to deal with. She is 100% correct----$100K (or more) for a job that requires only a HS diploma and valid driver's license is absurd. To that end, the Company has proposed significantly reducing "top rate" from $42/hr to $32.hr. While I don't see the $32/hr sticking, I do see a number in the $35-36/hr range in the final agreement. While it will take some time to "get rid of" those top rate drivers, whether through attrition, retirement or performance/production terminations, the end goal will be a much leaner operation in regard to labor cost, which will make the shareholders happy. Yes, production/performance will become even more of a "thing" in this agreement and you know that the "slugs" and "problem children" will have a target on their backs.

Amazon and FedEx Ground have both proven that the job can be adequately performed without $100K drivers.

The Company's economic proposal was a joke. 5 years of meager split raises with COLA only during the last two years is unprecedented and unacceptable. The Company saves a ton of money with split raises. I will admit that I chuckled when I read predictions from some of the more optimistic members here of annual raises in the $1-2/hr range. Well, it is pretty clear that the raises won't be anywhere near those numbers. I predict that the final numbers will be in the $.60-.75/hr area (not split) or $.80-$1/hr (split) for each year of the 5 year deal. The pensions have been bailed out----CSPF received a handout of $35B with an additional $5B to come when their supplemental application is approved----and are projected to have balances sufficient to pay benefits through at least 2051. Mine (NYST) was bailed out in late 2022----pensions restored 11/1/22 with lump sum "back pay" disbursed 3/1/23---nice rollover to my IRA. On a side note, I have to wonder if the Company will get any of the $6.1B that they paid to bailout CSPF back.

PVD's are not going anywhere. Those PC's without forward and driver facing cameras will have them installed within the first two years of this agreement. Taking pictures of all DR's without contact, which Amazon does with no issue, will become a standard method and will prove invaluable when closing out DFU's. "Stop, drop, click, roll."

I have heard talk of an additional vacation week and a paid day off for Juneteenth. Neither is going to happen.

Sean's tough guy stance may work in Boston but is going over like a ton of bricks in DC. His "48 hour mandate" is a joke. Both sides have shown their hole/hold cards. They must now work together to find common ground between the ridiculous economic proposals offered by the Company----way too low----and the Union----way too high. $60B - $9B = a lot of work to do without a whole lot of time left in which to do it. I do see them reaching a handshake agreement in principle NLT 7/10-15 with the Union agreeing to extend the current agreement beyond 7/30 until the new agreement can be reviewed and voted on at the local level. Yes, there would be "back pay" if this process extends beyond 8/1. Paychecks will not be interrupted. Life will go on.

Ryan Seacrest was not my first choice.

 

[DELACROIX]

The Company needs to rein in their labor costs now in order to remain viable in the future.

… and you know it…

The company was spouting that crap back in 1997…

Besides that it ain’t any if your damn business…

Go back to Reddit were you belong, what we are discussing today is “way over your head”…

 

[Thebrownblob]

I don’t know where you work .. fact is that most of our package car drivers are highly educated, some of them have their Masters.

Most of us were hired in as part timers, it took an average of 8 years to obtain enough seniority to sign a full time bid. Consider that as an apprenticeship..in order to qualify for a driving position takes a lot of skill and smarts.

Did you ever try in your 45 year career?

Exactly well over 50% of the drivers in my building, have a degree as well as numerous are involved in substantial side gigs or other businesses.

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

A lot of uneducated people work hard with long hours and will never earn $100k/year. Quit feeling so entitled.

Every one of them has the opportunity.

 

[Thebrownblob]

A lot of uneducated people work hard with long hours and will never earn $100k/year. Quit feeling so entitled.

And most of these “uneducated” people shoot themselves in the foot believing lies. I say uneducated in quotations because you don’t need a College Education to do well, the richest person I personally know, dropped out of high school, he’s worth millions based off his hustle, an effort. College basically just prepares you to be someone’s worker bee. Hell a lot of them have passed through this place and had every opportunity I have had at this job they just didn’t wanna put the effort in.
There is no entitlement here we work hard for a negotiated wage. 100 K is really the minimum amount you would need to adequately survive with a family.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I don’t know where you work .. fact is that most of our package car drivers are highly educated, some of them have their Masters.

Most of us were hired in as part timers, it took an average of 8 years to obtain enough seniority to sign a full time bid. Consider that as an apprenticeship..in order to qualify for a driving position takes a lot of skill and smarts.

Did you ever try in your 45 year career?

Bachelors degree, 9 hours toward Masters, hired off street in 1989, 11 months for my seniority, retired in 2018 with just under 30 years of service.

45 years? Why???

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

Bachelors degree, 9 hours toward Masters, hired off street in 1989, 11 months for my seniority, retired in 2018 with just under 30 years of service.

45 years? Why???

He clearly wasn't talking to you, just like everyone else here.

Scram.

 

[9.5mania]

When I was first hired in 2002, they were looking for mostly college kids like myself to work PT. I worked preload while going to school. I would say 1/3 of my building has college degrees or some college. More importantly, college has turned into a scam. We need more jobs like this one where you don’t need a degree to earn a living

 

[Redtag]

The Company needs to rein in their labor costs now in order to remain viable in the future.

I understand the company would love to make even more profits with a two tiered system and I get that long term they would love to keep all the money for the executives and the investor elite but that is not in the workers interest and for that reason they should vote no and see who blinks first.

Anyway, I bet you were not complaining about making more than non union fedex guys back when you were driving a package car.

 

[textat3]

raises of $1-2 a year will be a hard no vote in local 639….we need $18-20 over the life of the contract, or a MRA for top rate drivers.

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

raises of $1-2 a year will be a hard no vote in local 639….we need $18-20 over the life of the contract, or a MRA for top rate drivers.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Reddit is down so I thought I would come here and offer a little "knowledge".

It is obvious to me what the Company is trying to do. They agreed to the AC "concession" in order to gain public favor but the reality is that they are not required to retrofit any of the existing fleet (two vans and additional vents) but rather must install AC in any new vehicles put in to service on or after 1/1/24, which means they will order a ton of new vehicles before the end of this year and slowly integrate them in to the fleet, beginning in our southern states. BTW, do those white, motion activated fans in the roofs do anything to reduce the heat in the cargo area or are they more of a public relations optic? They appear to be attempting an end around by eliminating the 22.4's and replacing them with a greatly reduced proposed "top rate" of $32/hr (with GWI raises) for those who complete their progression or on after 8/1/23, which has led to the confusion from some younger drivers as to whether their pay will be cut $10/hr----it won't. I never understood the $10-11/hr bump when progression was completed and tried to advise those who were comfortable at their current wage to throw the "extra" in to their 401k's. As has been stated earlier, Carol Tome has identified labor as the single largest cost that the Company (and most companies) has (have) to deal with. She is 100% correct----$100K (or more) for a job that requires only a HS diploma and valid driver's license is absurd. To that end, the Company has proposed significantly reducing "top rate" from $42/hr to $32.hr. While I don't see the $32/hr sticking, I do see a number in the $35-36/hr range in the final agreement. While it will take some time to "get rid of" those top rate drivers, whether through attrition, retirement or performance/production terminations, the end goal will be a much leaner operation in regard to labor cost, which will make the shareholders happy. Yes, production/performance will become even more of a "thing" in this agreement and you know that the "slugs" and "problem children" will have a target on their backs.

Amazon and FedEx Ground have both proven that the job can be adequately performed without $100K drivers.

The Company's economic proposal was a joke. 5 years of meager split raises with COLA only during the last two years is unprecedented and unacceptable. The Company saves a ton of money with split raises. I will admit that I chuckled when I read predictions from some of the more optimistic members here of annual raises in the $1-2/hr range. Well, it is pretty clear that the raises won't be anywhere near those numbers. I predict that the final numbers will be in the $.60-.75/hr area (not split) or $.80-$1/hr (split) for each year of the 5 year deal. The pensions have been bailed out----CSPF received a handout of $35B with an additional $5B to come when their supplemental application is approved----and are projected to have balances sufficient to pay benefits through at least 2051. Mine (NYST) was bailed out in late 2022----pensions restored 11/1/22 with lump sum "back pay" disbursed 3/1/23---nice rollover to my IRA. On a side note, I have to wonder if the Company will get any of the $6.1B that they paid to bailout CSPF back.

PVD's are not going anywhere. Those PC's without forward and driver facing cameras will have them installed within the first two years of this agreement. Taking pictures of all DR's without contact, which Amazon does with no issue, will become a standard method and will prove invaluable when closing out DFU's. "Stop, drop, click, roll."

I have heard talk of an additional vacation week and a paid day off for Juneteenth. Neither is going to happen.

Sean's tough guy stance may work in Boston but is going over like a ton of bricks in DC. His "48 hour mandate" is a joke. Both sides have shown their hole/hold cards. They must now work together to find common ground between the ridiculous economic proposals offered by the Company----way too low----and the Union----way too high. $60B - $9B = a lot of work to do without a whole lot of time left in which to do it. I do see them reaching a handshake agreement in principle NLT 7/10-15 with the Union agreeing to extend the current agreement beyond 7/30 until the new agreement can be reviewed and voted on at the local level. Yes, there would be "back pay" if this process extends beyond 8/1. Paychecks will not be interrupted. Life will go on.

Ryan Seacrest was not my first choice.

Thankfully, nobody listens you. Especially when it comes to investing...

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

Thankfully, nobody listens you. Especially when it comes to investing...

You mean, you didn't lease your Altima???

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Bachelors degree, 9 hours toward Masters, hired off street in 1989, 11 months for my seniority, retired in 2018 with just under 30 years of service.

45 years? Why???

Might want to look at who was being quoted Skippy.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

You mean, you didn't lease your Altima???

I could never afford a high end vehicle like that.