NOT the Best Contract Ever

[homer123]

So, you think it is better to wait a full year to get your raise?
I think of it as getting half of our raise 6 months early.

I would think of it more as using YOUR (wage) money and YOUR (pension) money like an interest free loan, eventually trying to move pension funds, even those not underfunded, into the co. plan. I will forever believe that once they have that, the union will be severely weakened. On another note, I almost envy Fed-Ex people if they finally do get organized because it will be on a national level. Part of the reason for the our supplemental contracts are so varied and unbalanced is the company grew in spurts throughout the country, making districts, organizing and joining conferences as they went along. Each time the co. and the union met the co. had learned from it's previous mistakes & resulting contract & conferences suffered. Look at the strength of contracts and the pension funds on the west & east coasts, & the weakness of CS, which is the general growth pattern of the co. for the last century.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

So, you think it is better to wait a full year to get your raise?
I think of it as getting half of our raise 6 months early.

Unles we get a raise this coming February, It sure sounds to me like we are getting half our raise 6 months LATE.

 

[RockyRogue]

On another note, I almost envy Fed-Ex people if they finally do get organized because it will be on a national level. Part of the reason for the our supplemental contracts are so varied and unbalanced is the company grew in spurts throughout the country, making districts, organizing and joining conferences as they went along. Each time the co. and the union met the co. had learned from it's previous mistakes & resulting contract & conferences suffered.

Mostly right, Homer. However, you forget that UPS and the Teamsters decided to go the Master Contract Agreement at one point. I believe it was the mid-'70s--right around the time we went national--but I could be wrong. You can learn a lot reading a book, supplemented by an hour or so in front of a computer doing research on what that book said. Before the Master, you had a lot of contracts. The Master spelled everything out. The supplements went from there, which probably partly explains why UPS'ers at Chicago get 2 sick/option days at the time of hire while here in the Rocky Mountain District we wait a year. I worked for us in Chicago for awhile and quit. I'm a rehire. -Rocky

 

[homer123]

Mostly right, Homer. However, you forget that UPS and the Teamsters decided to go the Master Contract Agreement at one point. I believe it was the mid-'70s--right around the time we went national--but I could be wrong. You can learn a lot reading a book, supplemented by an hour or so in front of a computer doing research on what that book said. Before the Master, you had a lot of contracts. The Master spelled everything out. The supplements went from there, which probably partly explains why UPS'ers at Chicago get 2 sick/option days at the time of hire while here in the Rocky Mountain District we wait a year. I worked for us in Chicago for awhile and quit. I'm a rehire. -Rocky

Hey Rocky...glad to see you're back. I started in 1977 & you're correct, there were contracts by districts & contracts were for 3 years. On another thread I explained how UPS'ers (only) in my local were moved from Western States conference to CS. Some recall a voting to do so (with endorsements from IBT) I was new & had no clue about what was going on. To this date, in my local only UPS people are in CS, everyone else, including local officials
are in WS. Also, UPS contracts followed National Master Freight contracts, so what ever NM got, UPS later got. There one contract where, I believe in would have been around 1980, because NM was struggling & their contract basically remained the same (no improvements) we got the same (no improvements) with the exception of about 25cents to H/W. Another interesting point is that wage progression was about 4 months not 3 years.
Once attaining seniority I started a $1.00 less than top pay and got a 25 cent/hour raise per month. At the time in our district top pay was $6.76. (We've come along way baby, except for wage progression.) While I could also be wrong, I think the national UPS contract was around 1983-85. When I started in 1977, UPS had yet to include all of Texas. Texas would allow INTERSTATE UPS but not INTRASTATE UPS. I think it was 1979-80 before that was all done. Anyone remember an 11 state wildcat strike in the east coast in 1977 or 78? Ahhh...the good old days. Maybe I should change my handle to old friendt. Thanks again.

 

[UPS Lifer]

You've made a living at UPS (stealing from and harassing hourly employees) and even in retirement you're the one spreading disinformation.

I hope you feel better now that you have assualted my character

I feel bad (for you) that you felt you needed to go down this road. UPS Lifer

 

[UPS Lifer]

1- I don't think you even know what your point is anymore, other than you want to complain about something. To say that you don't care if UPS makes a profit or not because it isn't in your job description is flat out ignorant. How long do you think you'd have a job if they were forced to operate at a loss?

2- If you know there is a difference between profit and revenue don't treat them as interchangeable numbers. And if you think that 8.5% is such a huge number, then I guess you shouldn't be complaining about an assumed $4.50 wage increase in this contract since that equates to an increase of almost 16%.

GuyinBrown,
You made some great points without attacking Griff's character. I have a lot of respect for that. Thank you for taking the high road.

Everyone has a point of view and we can learn a great deal if we listen to all sides without the pointless personal attacks. We also have to remember that when we look out for just our own interests it clouds our perspective of the entire picture. It also clouds our judgement and ability to make decisions.

 

[ups_vette]

homer....Texas INTERSTATE rights were granted in Nov 1971. I was a Center Manager in Pennsylvania on temp assignment training new drivers in the Texas City Center.

The "wildcat" strike you refered to was NOT a "wildcat" strike. This was before a National Contract was instituted. The 11 states (Maine, Vemont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Mass., Conn., NY, NJ, PA, MD, WVA, and VA) were actually 12 states, and their Contracts had expired. This was in 1975.

The primary reason for the strike was the part timer's pension plan. The Union wanted the part timers in the Union's Pension Plan and UPS felt it would be better for the part timers if they were in UPS's Pension Plan. I think we all know which plan the part timers are covered by today.

UPS management saw the problems with a Union Pension Plan over 30 years ago, and the problems still exist to this day.

 

[#1angelfan]

Unles we get a raise this coming February, It sure sounds to me like we are getting half our raise 6 months LATE.

you are right. we will only be getting .35 for 6 months and then get the other .35 in feb. that is not a .70 cent raise in one year, when for 6 months you are only getting .35 cents.

 

[HazMatMan]

So, you think it is better to wait a full year to get your raise?
I think of it as getting half of our raise 6 months early.

I figured it out, doing it 30 cents in August and 30 cents in February you would make roughly 1500 dollars less per year as opposed to getting 60 cents once in August. Satellite, don't fall for this. It's exactly what UPS wants you to think, that it is better to get a raise every 6 months instead of once a year..

60 cent raise in August $48,297.60
30 cents in August and 30 cents in February $46,756.80
that is 52 weeks full of paychecks, no vacation checks or poh's or sick days to make it easy. Those are my numbers with my present hourly rate and the raise added in.. Those numbers do not include any overtime whatsoever..

 

[homer123]

homer....Texas INTERSTATE rights were granted in Nov 1971. I was a Center Manager in Pennsylvania on temp assignment training new drivers in the Texas City Center.

The "wildcat" strike you refered to was NOT a "wildcat" strike. This was before a National Contract was instituted. The 11 states (Maine, Vemont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Mass., Conn., NY, NJ, PA, MD, WVA, and VA) were actually 12 states, and their Contracts had expired. This was in 1975.

The primary reason for the strike was the part timer's pension plan. The Union wanted the part timers in the Union's Pension Plan and UPS felt it would be better for the part timers if they were in UPS's Pension Plan. I think we all know which plan the part timers are covered by today.

UPS management saw the problems with a Union Pension Plan over 30 years ago, and the problems still exist to this day.

Ok, I missed the number of states. and we were told it was not an authorized strike, but since I started in 1977 (fulltime, 1976 as part-time) how would I have known about it & how come it affected volume so much that we only had ONE seasonal hire that peak. I also recall returning pkgs to people that had been sent to those states because UPS had stopped them in transit. As far as the Texas intrastate, I recall at a PCM it was a big-deal announcement about Texas being fully opened to UPS. While I don't remember every detail of my career, I do know that I was not working for UPS in 1971 or 1975. Thanks for the info.

 

[speedbug]

1- I don't think you even know what your point is anymore, other than you want to complain about something. To say that you don't care if UPS makes a profit or not because it isn't in your job description is flat out ignorant. How long do you think you'd have a job if they were forced to operate at a loss?

2- If you know there is a difference between profit and revenue don't treat them as interchangeable numbers. And if you think that 8.5% is such a huge number, then I guess you shouldn't be complaining about an assumed $4.50 wage increase in this contract since that equates to an increase of almost 16%.

That 8.5 % in in 1 year , the 16% you state is a 5 yr total, now you tell us which one is greater?

 

[speedbug]

Ok, I missed the number of states. and we were told it was not an authorized strike, but since I started in 1977 (fulltime, 1976 as part-time) how would I have known about it & how come it affected volume so much that we only had ONE seasonal hire that peak. I also recall returning pkgs to people that had been sent to those states because UPS had stopped them in transit. As far as the Texas intrastate, I recall at a PCM it was a big-deal announcement about Texas being fully opened to UPS. While I don't remember every detail of my career, I do know that I was not working for UPS in 1971 or 1975. Thanks for the info.

We got intrastate rights in Texas in 1986, I was a preloader from 3/1984----2/1986, when alot of us went fulltime to hanlde the volume growth caused by intrastate rights.

 

[GuyinBrown]

That 8.5 % in in 1 year , the 16% you state is a 5 yr total, now you tell us which one is greater?

Ahh... I stand corrected for having used skewed math. My point, however, remains valid in that if you're going to talk about how much UPS is making, you need to look at the profit percentage and not just the number. $4 billion is a hell of a lot of money, but when your costs are $43 billion... it's really not that much and can disappear in a hurry.

 

[RockyRogue]

Hey Rocky...glad to see you're back.

Homer, I'm back but it ain't for long. I clear the UPS gates at our Denver hub for the last time next Thursday (October 11th). I was a helper last Peak (OMG....I pray those blizzards NEVER come around again!!) and was rehired as an inside employee in January '07.

We got intrastate rights in Texas in 1986, I was a preloader from 3/1984----2/1986, when alot of us went fulltime to hanlde the volume growth caused by intrastate rights.

Was it REALLY that late??? Geeez!! I was born in Dallas in '84. I'm amazed we didn't get FULL Texas service authorization until early in '86. I think my family visited Dallas for Christmas in '86. If I'm not mistaken, we shipped some presents down. If we did, it almost certainly went UPS .

Part-Time Starting Rate Frozen at $8.50

Healthcare Givebacks for New Part-Timers
Details on the proposed economic package for part-timers are beginning to emerge, and they are not pretty.

The tentative agreement would freeze the starting pay rate for part-timers at $8.50 until August 2013. It would provide for an increase to $10.50 after 90 days on the job.

In a major concession, the proposed early deal reportedly denies health coverage to part-timers for the first year of employment, and family coverage for the first 18 months.

Sorry, but I don't have a problem with the agreement on the healthcare. The $2/hr increase in wages after seniority is worth it. We need to attract and KEEP good people! I'd prefer to see the starting pay be $10.50, followed by a $1/hr raise after seniority. But, that won't happen. -Rocky

 

[upsdawg]

If the competition intended on shutting UPS down didn't they have a good opertunity(sp?) in 1997? Competion is there but can they really handle all the volume? I don't think so.

Is there competition overseas that could take our jobs------------have you heard of a company called Deutch Post , owned by the German P.O---which bought DHL---and Airborne-- and a huge 3rd party Logistics company--was it Excel------they would buy UPS if it was for sale!! If we want to remain competitive we need to look at the GM's of the world and how the union has tied their hands---more, more more---how much is enough?? I think I would like to see all UPSers share in the success of UPS--whether it is by stock price---dividends on UPS earnings.

I am glad that UPS and Teamsters have reached an agreement because it was time for FedEx and DHL to start stealing our volume away by threatening customeers----better switch volume now--we won't accept any new customers when UPS goes on strike like they did back in 97.................and believe me--there are customers that still hate UPS and the Teamsters for that

 

[Griff]

I hope you feel better now that you have assualted my character

I feel bad (for you) that you felt you needed to go down this road. UPS Lifer

I'm keeping it real. You're retired now, at least be honest about what you've done in your years at UPS. I mean no disrespect, but I'm tired of center manager's acting like everyone who drives at UPS is as dumb as the day is long. UPS steals from its drivers on a daily basis, it's just indirect theft. Your job is to push those numbers and timestudies, I'd say 80% of the numbers are bogus. Anyone running scratch or bonus is being robbed by UPS everyday, this is a fact. Anyone who runs the same route everyday and runs bonus or scratch will attest to this (small allowance anyone?). With every raise we have received management has tightened the time studies to take back what we receive in our raise. If that isn't bringing your salary down enough they will take work off your day to cut into your income. I know more than two handfuls of drivers that are making the same yearly income as they did in 2002. This is the problem with these even smaller wage raises, UPS will have a lot of us earning even LESS than we did in '07. As if this wasn't enough, the biggest scam of all time is sales leads, you guys steal from us there too. The daily volume numbers are lower than what the people actual ship out and watch out if you sign up a huge shipper (NDA's / Intl's) you will never get what is coming to you, UPS will make up every excuse in the book as to why you aren't being credited for it. Deny it all you want, every driver here knows this goes on and it's criminal. Keep it real.

 

[Griff]

1- I don't think you even know what your point is anymore, other than you want to complain about something. To say that you don't care if UPS makes a profit or not because it isn't in your job description is flat out ignorant. How long do you think you'd have a job if they were forced to operate at a loss?

2- If you know there is a difference between profit and revenue don't treat them as interchangeable numbers. And if you think that 8.5% is such a huge number, then I guess you shouldn't be complaining about an assumed $4.50 wage increase in this contract since that equates to an increase of almost 16%.

Put your letter in, maybe you can takeover UPS Lifers vacant management spot. Flawed logic and playing the smoke and mirrors numbers game, you're a shoo-in.

Edit -- UPS Lifer even approves of your "great" points, what a shocker. Great minds think alike!

 

[GuyinBrown]

I admitted that I made a mistake with the math, but you can't even make a point. The best you can do is offer insults instead of educated arguments. Sounds like you're corporate material.

 

[satellitedriver]

With every raise we have received management has tightened the time studies to take back what we receive in our raise. If that isn't bringing your salary down enough they will take work off your day to cut into your income. I know more than two handfuls of drivers that are making the same yearly income as they did in 2002[/B

None of this makes sense.
If they tighten the time study, they put more work on you. That means if the time study is wrong, then you work longer hours. More OT money in your pocket.
If they take work off of you, you still get at least 8 hrs.
How can you make the same yearly income based on a 40hr week making more $ per hour in 2007 than you made in 2002? The only way that could happen is if in 2002 you worked a whole lot of OT. Most drivers I know would love to only have a 40hr week.
In the last 21 yrs of driving I have not had 2 handfuls of a straight 40hr week.

 

[Channahon]

I'm keeping it real. You're retired now, at least be honest about what you've done in your years at UPS. I mean no disrespect, but I'm tired of center manager's acting like everyone who drives at UPS is as dumb as the day is long. UPS steals from its drivers on a daily basis, it's just indirect theft. Your job is to push those numbers and timestudies, I'd say 80% of the numbers are bogus. Anyone running scratch or bonus is being robbed by UPS everyday, this is a fact. Anyone who runs the same route everyday and runs bonus or scratch will attest to this (small allowance anyone?). With every raise we have received management has tightened the time studies to take back what we receive in our raise. If that isn't bringing your salary down enough they will take work off your day to cut into your income. I know more than two handfuls of drivers that are making the same yearly income as they did in 2002. This is the problem with these even smaller wage raises, UPS will have a lot of us earning even LESS than we did in '07. As if this wasn't enough, the biggest scam of all time is sales leads, you guys steal from us there too. The daily volume numbers are lower than what the people actual ship out and watch out if you sign up a huge shipper (NDA's / Intl's) you will never get what is coming to you, UPS will make up every excuse in the book as to why you aren't being credited for it. Deny it all you want, every driver here knows this goes on and it's criminal. Keep it real.

If your facts are true, there would be NO UPS. If you feel there are criminal acts committed by UPS, please take the time to contact your local police department or states attorney.

Integrity is the cornerstone of this organization. All UPSer's have a high degree of integrity in everything we do, from servicing every package, call tag and pick ups to managing the business. For those UPS'ers who choose to the wrong path, they usually aren't around for very long. Dishonesty will catch up with a dishonest employee.

Slightly off topic from the name of the thread, but as a retired UPS employee, I know what it takes to run this company from a management and hourly position.

Respect goes a long way in working together, rather than making accusations regarding UPS management.

All of us have a vested interest in UPS, with our ultimate goal of having a secure retirement for ourselves and our families, which is rare in today's business world.

There are not too many companies that are in the same league with UPS.