Occupy Wall Street

[tourists24]

Sounds to me like you've always stayed away from educators.

yes... with the way our public schools teach, it sounds like a good idea....

 

[klein]

You don't know what you are talking about!! I vote Republican because they represent what I personally believe in much more than the Democratic party does. The people change, but the basic ideas of the parties stay the same. I vote for the "idea" not the person.

What would you do if the US wouldn't have that 2 term limit ?
Voted back Bush in, even with the huge turmoil he created ?

That's how it works in most other countries, like Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ and many more.
Basically for us, it comes to a point when we just say we had enough of that same Prime Minister, and vote for the other party.
(unless ofcourse the PM resigns).

 

[tourists24]

What would you do if the US wouldn't have that 2 term limit ?
Voted back Bush in, even with the huge turmoil he created ?

That's how it works in most other countries, like Canada, Europe, Australia, NZ and many more.
Basically for us, it comes to a point when we just say we had enough of that same Prime Minister, and vote for the other party.
(unless ofcourse the PM resigns).

Well we are just dumb here arent we? good thing that 2 term limit thing is in.... whatever would we do without the infinite wisdom of Klein? What is it you do again?

 

[klein]

Well we are just dumb here arent we? good thing that 2 term limit thing is in.... whatever would we do without the infinite wisdom of Klein? What is it you do again?

I have my winter job - my private, (home based) delivery company. Was busy yesterday.

 

[tourists24]

I have my winter job - my private, (home based) delivery company. Was busy yesterday.

You mean you're not relying on the government to give you money? Do you have the permission of Canada to do this?

 

[wkmac]

Well it seems Obama is getting the Big Money from Wall Street per Democracy Now!

New figures show President Obama continues to pull in huge donations from the financial sector, with more money from Wall Street this year than all other Republican presidential candidates combined. According to the Washington Post, Obama has raised a total of $15.6 million from banks and other financial firms, with nearly $12 million of that going to the Democratic National Committee. Republican frontrunner Mitt Romney has raised less than half that much from Wall Street, around $7.5 million. A top banking executive and Obama fundraiser told the Washington Post that reports of Wall Street antagonism toward Obama "are exaggerated and overblown ... [but] it probably helps from a political perspective if he’s not seen as a Wall Street guy."

You Obama supporters have to start asking serious questions about Obama and where his real loyality lay. If Wall Street is giving big money to a communist, does that mean Wall Street is communist? And why do the red state booboisie continue to defend an economic apparatus (Wall Street) who if they truly believed in a fiscal restraint/limited gov't, works against them on ever turn towards an out of control American state?

Seems to me that both Obamatons and red state knuckle draggers are not getting what they've worked and argued for, in fact both get the opposite but yet you automatons fight each other like you are getting everything you've been asking for.......oh wait, maybe you are!

"A professional politician is a professionally dishonorable man. In order to get anywhere near high office he has to make so many compromises and submit to so many humiliations that he becomes indistinguishable from a streetwalker." ~ H.L. Mencken

 

[Inthegame]

Well it seems Obama is getting the Big Money from Wall Street per Democracy Now!



You Obama supporters have to start asking serious questions about Obama and where his real loyality lay. If Wall Street is giving big money to a communist, does that mean Wall Street is communist? And why do the red state booboisie continue to defend an economic apparatus (Wall Street) who if they truly believed in a fiscal restraint/limited gov't, works against them on ever turn towards an out of control American state?

Seems to me that both Obamatons and red state knuckle draggers are not getting what they've worked and argued for, in fact both get the opposite but yet you automatons fight each other like you are getting everything you've been asking for.......oh wait, maybe you are!



View attachment 5966

The problem with this post is it offers no solutions, just criticism. So what is the point, don't vote for anyone? Who is really at fault in our system, the politicians who try to get things done, or the obstructionists who prevent accomplishments because they fear irrelevance? Maybe it's us, the electorate who expects, hopes, dreams that somehow it'll all be different this time.
My frustration is with those who criticize but don't get involved. Before you're so quick to cast stones, run for office at any level. Get elected and then tell me how dishonest EVERY politician is. That's pure BS. Almost every politician from any political view are honest, hardworking, dedicated people who are trying to make things better.
You'll soon find simple solutions are seldom easily attained, especially with the distrust we have for our leaders and the lack of analytical thinking of the populace. Our biggest problem looks at us in the mirror.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

yes... with the way our public schools teach, it sounds like a good idea....

Have you earned your degree in education and worked in a school system? No, then your opinion really isn't that important.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Sounds to me like you've always stayed away from educators.

Sad, but true.

 

[tourists24]

Have you earned your degree in education and worked in a school system? No, then your opinion really isn't that important.

What? That makes absolutely no sense. Just because someone doesnt work in a public school system or has an education degree means their opinion means nothing? lol.... That means education is the only opinion you have that means anything right?

Doesnt matter if you feel my opinion is important or not. Ive seen our glorious public school system in action for many years. I went there and have had kids go there. Have seen the politics and the BS political correctness that goes on. Not to mention the curriculum that goes on. Its not longer the 3 R's. You gonna tell us with all your expertise that a public school education makes you intelligent? Or that a public education holds a candle to home schooling or private education?

 

[Inthegame]

What? That makes absolutely no sense. Just because someone doesnt work in a public school system or has an education degree means their opinion means nothing? lol.... That means education is the only opinion you have that means anything right?

Doesnt matter if you feel my opinion is important or not. Ive seen our glorious public school system in action for many years. I went there and have had kids go there. Have seen the politics and the BS political correctness that goes on. Not to mention the curriculum that goes on. Its not longer the 3 R's. You gonna tell us with all your expertise that a public school education makes you intelligent? Or that a public education holds a candle to home schooling or private education?

I'll tell you public education correctly administered can be as or even superior to either private or home school. I have three children publicly educated from grade school through college. All have degrees (one multiple) the other two have masters, one is published in a major scientific journal. Parents need to be involved in their childrens education. Too often the public school system gets blamed for inattentive parenting. Private or home schooled children are much more likely to have parental influence. I thank my public school teachers for the values and efforts they instilled in my children. Unless you are aware of the challenges these public educators face you're being presumptive to criticize their efforts. They HAVE to take all students, good or bad. To expect their results to be the same as private/home school is unreasonable. But with parental help public education shines as bright as any other form. Criticizing public education is criticizing the Constitution framers.

 

[1timepu]

About the mortgage thing.....rule or not, we saved so we would have 20% down for our first house. That's just what you did and how you were taught. If you wanted to spend your money on toys (big TVs, stereos, new cars, etc) then you had 'toys' at your apartment, not your house. We had friends who would choose that route.

Barney Frank change the rules for buying a house the Dem's thought it was a "Right" to buy a house and lowered the 20% to 0% down, that is what caused the house crisis, giving people the right to buy a house who had no business owning a house. If you had to take a variable rate to get a house you don't deserve one.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Barney Frank change the rules for buying a house the Dem's thought it was a "Right" to buy a house and lowered the 20% to 0% down, that is what caused the house crisis, giving people the right to buy a house who had no business owning a house. If you had to take a variable rate to get a house you don't deserve one.

This is not necessarily true. Variable or ARM's, if used properly, can be a good choice. The crisis was caused by a combination of the lowering of the down payment and credit requirements and/or lack of an income check. Many of these people had no business buying a house.

 

[wkmac]

I'll tell you public education correctly administered can be as or even superior to either private or home school. I have three children publicly educated from grade school through college. All have degrees (one multiple) the other two have masters, one is published in a major scientific journal. Parents need to be involved in their childrens education. Too often the public school system gets blamed for inattentive parenting. Private or home schooled children are much more likely to have parental influence. I thank my public school teachers for the values and efforts they instilled in my children. Unless you are aware of the challenges these public educators face you're being presumptive to criticize their efforts. They HAVE to take all students, good or bad. To expect their results to be the same as private/home school is unreasonable. But with parental help public education shines as bright as any other form. Criticizing public education is criticizing the Constitution framers.

Although I'm not a fan of the public education model we have, I'm not a fan of a blanket blame of the teachers either. Instead of blaming teachers, look at how education declined when control of education shifted from local to national. Ironic that so many other aspects of life have also declined when control shifted from local to national but that's another thread. Teachers and parents don't work together because in some sense they can't. Teachers and parents have to accept a topdown system that's a one size fits all but children are individuals and the best way to teach them can be as many as the number that sit in a classroom.

I found the comment of criticizing public education is criticizing the constitutional framers a bit much. The framers one could argue, especially Jefferson, were great advocates of "education" but public education in the structure we know it did not exist in the framers day. Public education which is built on the Prussian Education model didn't come about until the 19th century in a broad use sense to influence American thinkers. The Prussian model was intent on building a compliant citizenry and not necessarily an well educated one. Many of our founding fathers if not most were educated by what is called the Trivium model of education but this method produces a "thinking" citizenry and not a goal of a compliant citizenry. It was the Trivium teaching model that was the seedbed of the enlightenment thinkers that produced some of our greatest advancements and laid the seedbed that would become the ideal of "right to life, liberty and property (pursuit of happiness)" that became the what we are today or at least what we once were. It challenged the divine right of kings and not enforce it.

Ironic that it's the nationalist topdown hierarchy that has corrupted our American educational system and if one were to drill down into some aspects of the OWS movement, it's about challenging and opposing topdown hierarchy.

 

[wkmac]

Calling attention to the crises spawned by contemporary global capitalism, the Occupy movement provides an opportunity for more than mere response to the symptoms of that system. Just as doctors would be remiss to merely attend to symptoms on an ad hoc basis, we who are concerned with social and economic justice must set ourselves upon the underlying disease.
That disease is authority, the state’s introduction of coercion into social and economic relationships. Exploitation — an idea that many Occupy demonstrators have invoked to characterize the existing economic system — depends on what Herfried Münkler phrased “an imposition of asymmetrical exchange relations.”
“If force is introduced into the relationship,” Münkler continued, “it becomes asymmetrical and the two parties can no longer be considered equal.” The capitalism that the Occupy movement began to fulminate against is just such a system, one permeated by force and resulting in an arrangement of coercively managed deprivation.

Robbing Us Blind

 

[Inthegame]

Although I'm not a fan of the public education model we have, I'm not a fan of a blanket blame of the teachers either. Instead of blaming teachers, look at how education declined when control of education shifted from local to national. Ironic that so many other aspects of life have also declined when control shifted from local to national but that's another thread. Teachers and parents don't work together because in some sense they can't. Teachers and parents have to accept a topdown system that's a one size fits all but children are individuals and the best way to teach them can be as many as the number that sit in a classroom.

I found the comment of criticizing public education is criticizing the constitutional framers a bit much. The framers one could argue, especially Jefferson, were great advocates of "education" but public education in the structure we know it did not exist in the framers day. Public education which is built on the Prussian Education model didn't come about until the 19th century in a broad use sense to influence American thinkers. The Prussian model was intent on building a compliant citizenry and not necessarily an well educated one. Many of our founding fathers if not most were educated by what is called the Trivium model of education but this method produces a "thinking" citizenry and not a goal of a compliant citizenry. It was the Trivium teaching model that was the seedbed of the enlightenment thinkers that produced some of our greatest advancements and laid the seedbed that would become the ideal of "right to life, liberty and property (pursuit of happiness)" that became the what we are today or at least what we once were. It challenged the divine right of kings and not enforce it.

Ironic that it's the nationalist topdown hierarchy that has corrupted our American educational system and if one were to drill down into some aspects of the OWS movement, it's about challenging and opposing topdown hierarchy.

Excellent comments, I agree my statement on the framers was a bit over the top. But parental involvement in their childrens education is a key component to success in any system. That involvement is more often present in private/home school settings, hence my frustration with placing blame on the public system.

 

[wkmac]

Excellent comments, I agree my statement on the framers was a bit over the top. But parental involvement in their childrens education is a key component to success in any system. That involvement is more often present in private/home school settings, hence my frustration with placing blame on the public system.

Understand and I share your frustration.

 

[wkmac]

A libertarian/free market economic perspective on the OWS movement to occupy public spaces.

In the first piece found here, Karl Hess discusses another Occupy movement in 1969' under the title Massacre at People's Park and the libertarian/anarcho economist Murray Rothbard discusses the "rightness" of citizens using homesteading to confiscate stolen property from the state and return it back into private hands.

I guess Hess and Rothbard hate America too.


And thanks to Truthdig, here's an interesting vid

 

[Jones]

With all the focus on OWS it's easy to forget that the 1% are facing hardships in this economy as well:

She does miss one luxury—the Gulfstream. After they defaulted on the $8 million jet loan, the banks seized the plane. The Siegels can use it only occasionally, with the banks' permission.

Recently, the family boarded a commercial flight for a vacation, making for some confusion. One of the kids looked around the crowded cabin and asked, "Mom, what are all these strangers doing on our plane?"

The horror, the horror.....

 

[wkmac]

Poor Baroness!