ORION is creating its own "METRICS MONSTERS" and the DM's are unhappy?

[10 point]

How is it safe to constantly back into residential driveways in order to obey ORION?

How is it safe to be in end-range motion, crawling over boxes and fighting bulk to get to the one stop on shelf 8 that ORION is telling you to deliver?

How is it safe to be delivering to or near an elementary school at dismissal time in order to obey ORION?

How is it in the best interests of the company to do your pickups 5 hours before their scheduled time because ORION tells you to?

I guess your experience has been different from mine. They installed ORION on my route, it doesn't work, I told them that it doesn't work and that I have no intention of following it, and they have not said a word to me about my lack of "compliance" for almost a year now. If they ever even tried to discipline me for not following it, I would simply file an ART 37 grievance and be done with it.

Don't forget Art 18 too.

 

[kingOFchester]

How is it safe to constantly back into residential driveways in order to obey ORION?

I don't back because of Orion. Orion does not tell me to back. It tells me where the next stop is only. It does not give me a route to the next stop. The safest way to the next stop is to go around the block. This explains my miles being over orion.

How is it safe to be in end-range motion, crawling over boxes and fighting bulk to get to the one stop on shelf 8 that ORION is telling you to deliver?

I will always get my bulk off in order to follow Orion. This will cause one of the few breaks in my trace.

How is it safe to be delivering to or near an elementary school at dismissal time in order to obey ORION?

I have several schools on my route. I will, if need be, break trace again to service the school.

How is it in the best interests of the company to do your pickups 5 hours before their scheduled time because ORION tells you to?

Orion has yet to tell me when to do the pickups. They are not on the same screen. I pick up all pickups at their designated time.

 

[kingOFchester]

Telling me to be intentionally stupid in order to obey ORION is like telling me to intentionally crap my pants. I simply cannot bring myself to do it. I have too much pride in myself and too much respect for my customers to screw them over just because ORION is telling me to.

Crapping in my pants has no value. Following Orion has a monetary value. I do not screw customers. Pickups are done in the window. NDA's delivered before commit. Savers delivered before commits. Customer is getting what they pay for. UPS is getting what they have contracted to get from me. Work as instructed. Until I am instructed to do something that is not safe or immoral or against the contract, I will follow their directive.

I have never been happier as a driver. I use to leave the building in the AM on a mission. Trying to figure out the most effective way to run the route. Trying to figure out which stop would be the most efficient way to run the trip. Trying to guess where and how the traffic will be at any given time. I would plan my lunch according to my work. Sometimes lunch at 11, other days it was better to take it at 1. My stress level was higher, and I was generally not relaxed. Worried that I was making the best decision. Didn't feel like hearing sups question my decisions. Orion has taken it all away. Now I leave the building and go the way they want me to go. I go to the next stop on the list. I shut down for lunch when I want to, generally the same time everyday. It is freedom.

 

[728ups]

How is it safe to constantly back into residential driveways in order to obey ORION?

How is it safe to be in end-range motion, crawling over boxes and fighting bulk to get to the one stop on shelf 8 that ORION is telling you to deliver?

How is it safe to be delivering to or near an elementary school at dismissal time in order to obey ORION?

How is it in the best interests of the company to do your pickups 5 hours before their scheduled time because ORION tells you to?

I guess your experience has been different from mine. They installed ORION on my route, it doesn't work, I told them that it doesn't work and that I have no intention of following it, and they have not said a word to me about my lack of "compliance" for almost a year now. If they ever even tried to discipline me for not following it, I would simply file an ART 37 grievance and be done with it.

crawling over bulk? my package car has a back door, and i unload the bulk to get to the package or packages,reload the bulk and make the delivery. I get paid by the hour and have no problems doing this six or seven times if needed to make compliance.
The look on the supervisors face is bloody classic when this done five or six times. they are just DYING to tell me to climb over the bulk but no sir,aint safe and aint happening

I guess we will have to agree to disagree,but we have been told ORION is the all wise,all knowing and if it instructs us to make a pick up at a certain time, or to be in the area of a school at a certain time then By George THAT is the best interests of the company and woe be unto anyone who dare to manage the route. <shrug>
I laugh every morning at the drivers who are stressed and upset over the policies,as well as the supervisors who are ready to walk out the door over the continued BS. Me,I just smile and keep on trucking. I wish they'd have invented ORION 20 years ago

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Telling me to be intentionally stupid in order to obey ORION is like telling me to intentionally crap my pants. I simply cannot bring myself to do it. I have too much pride in myself and too much respect for my customers to screw them over just because ORION is telling me to.

I plan to follow ORION ONLY when it doesn't require that I put my safety in jeopardy, when it won't cause service failures, and also when it's very clear that ORION's way is more efficient. But......based on what I've read about ORION so far I'm thinking that using those three variables won't allow me to stick to ORION very much.

 

[soberups]

If ORION makes your job easier and reduces your stress level then by all means go right ahead and follow it.

It does not make my job any easier, following it would increase my stress level as well as make me ashamed to intentionally work in a stupid and wasteful manner, so I do not follow it.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[kingOFchester]

I plan to follow ORION ONLY when it doesn't require that I put my safety in jeopardy, when it won't cause service failures, and also when it's very clear that ORION's way is more efficient. But......based on what I've read about ORION so far I'm thinking that using those three variables won't allow me to stick to ORION very much.

My plan and paid day has gone up while my area has shrunk thanks to Orion.

 

[soberups]

I plan to follow ORION ONLY when it doesn't require that I put my safety in jeopardy, when it won't cause service failures, and also when it's very clear that ORION's way is more efficient. But......based on what I've read about ORION so far I'm thinking that using those three variables won't allow me to stick to ORION very much.

That was my attitude also, which is why after a year I still have never followed it or come even close to being in compliance. If they fixed it and made a workable solution I would be perfectly willing to follow it, but they haven't and likely never will. There have been several occasions where following it would quite literally have caused me to run out of fuel at 10:00 at night with stops left. I'm not gonna waste time on such foolishness.

 

[kingOFchester]

If ORION makes your job easier and reduces your stress level then by all means go right ahead and follow it.

It does not make my job any easier, following it would increase my stress level as well as make me ashamed to intentionally work in a stupid and wasteful manner, so I do not follow it.

Different strokes for different folks.

I am under no contractual obligation to work in the most efficient way. In fact, I am contractually obligated to work as directed. I am directed to follow Orion. So that is what I do. Miles ups, area shrunk, paid day up. Thats all that matters. I do not get any monetary gain by working in a efficient manner. But rather I make more money by working in wasteful manner. I am not a glorified pizza delivery boy to have a sense of grandeur. I am a glorified pizza delivery boy for the check. If they want me to stop at every house and ask them if they want to sign up for my choice, well thats what I will do, as long as I get my check.

They are my employer. They call the shots no matter how stupid they are. As long as I am not doing something that goes against the contract, is immoral or illegal, then I will do what they ask.

Even if I was willing to not work as directed, why would I turn down less work for more money? I find it comical. I am a monkey dressed in brown, with a pension and a six figure income and pretty good benefits. Pay 100k a year and I will dress like bozo the clown and drive a clown car pulling a trailer of packages.

I don't need to come home at the end of the day and have the feeling of accomplishment because I slung cardboard in the most efficient way. I will feel a sense of accomplishment when my kids graduate college paid for with my earnings from slinging cardboard the way my employer directed me to.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

After skimming through all of the back and forth jabs in this discussion I've figured out that there are two types of people at play here. One wants to be more efficient. The other want's to make more money by not being as efficient.

 

[Rainman]

I used to synchronize the world of commerce while delivering at the speed of business and making all right turns.

That was before Orion.

Now I just drive the truck.


Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.

 

[kingOFchester]

That was my attitude also, which is why after a year I still have never followed it or come even close to being in compliance. If they fixed it and made a workable solution I would be perfectly willing to follow it, but they haven't and likely never will. There have been several occasions where following it would quite literally have caused me to run out of fuel at 10:00 at night with stops left. I'm not gonna waste time on such foolishness.

I find it interesting that most ups teamsters complain about the amount of work, but yet some still worry that they are not being the "more efficient". The more efficient you are, the more work you will be given.

 

[oldngray]

I used to synchronize the world of commerce while delivering at the speed of business and making all right turns.

That was before Orion.

Now I just drive the truck.


Kmart sux. So does Walmart. And Orion.

And UPS is still spitting out those amazing press releases touting how great their new technology is which saves miles and also eliminates left hand turns.

 

[kingOFchester]

After skimming through all of the back and forth jabs in this discussion I've figured out that there are two types of people at play here. One wants to be more efficient. The other want's to make more money by not being as efficient.

First to address your labeling of me as someone that wants to make more money by not being efficient. I was always efficient. Worked the way that was best for the company. Now that Orion is here, I am being directed to follow it. And that is what i will do until directed otherwise. The less efficient manner and higher pay, is just an extra by following their directive.

Almost everyone here and at work complains about the amount of work. Being more efficient will add work.

If I was directed to go out there, and run the trip the most efficient way possible, that is what I will do. Scratch that, that is exactly what I have done since I started working at UPS. Never heard a peep from anyone about the way I ran a trip. But, I am now being directed to run the trip their way. So That is what I will do. I am pointing out that by doing it their way, I make more money for doing less work. So why would I ignore my employer and as a result make less money. I don't see the win in that scenario. Piss off my employer, and make less money. And have more packages to deliver? My way, the employer is happy, I make more money, less packages to deliver and will have a better shot at retiring with a body that will be able to keep up with my plans to spend my pension, 401k and roth IRA.

 

[oldngray]

At one time drivers were trusted enough to just go and use their own judgement to deliver. After UPS insists the new technology is better and now says drivers can't be trusted to use their own judgement, is it any surprise most people develop an attitude problem?

 

[728ups]

After skimming through all of the back and forth jabs in this discussion I've figured out that there are two types of people at play here. One wants to be more efficient. The other want's to make more money by not being as efficient.

Bollocks,some here want to do the job "their way" and the rest of us wish to work as directed.

 

[The Other Side]

I am under no contractual obligation to work in the most efficient way. In fact, I am contractually obligated to work as directed. I am directed to follow Orion. So that is what I do. Miles ups, area shrunk, paid day up. Thats all that matters. I do not get any monetary gain by working in a efficient manner. But rather I make more money by working in wasteful manner. I am not a glorified pizza delivery boy to have a sense of grandeur. I am a glorified pizza delivery boy for the check. If they want me to stop at every house and ask them if they want to sign up for my choice, well thats what I will do, as long as I get my check.

They are my employer. They call the shots no matter how stupid they are. As long as I am not doing something that goes against the contract, is immoral or illegal, then I will do what they ask.

Even if I was willing to not work as directed, why would I turn down less work for more money? I find it comical. I am a monkey dressed in brown, with a pension and a six figure income and pretty good benefits. Pay 100k a year and I will dress like bozo the clown and drive a clown car pulling a trailer of packages.

I don't need to come home at the end of the day and have the feeling of accomplishment because I slung cardboard in the most efficient way. I will feel a sense of accomplishment when my kids graduate college paid for with my earnings from slinging cardboard the way my employer directed me to.

I think your premise is wrong from the jump. One of the biggest problems with UPS drivers is not knowing what a "directive" is.

First, lets dispense with the "working as directive" theory. You said "In fact, I am contractually obligated to work as directed." This is untrue and NOT a fact.

There isnt one section of our NMA, Supplementals, Riders or Addendums that includes a section on working as directed.

Unless you can demonstrate a place where "we" are contracted to "WORK AS DIRECTED" I wouldnt say that again.

"WE" do have a contractual obligation to "perform" our duties in a certain manner, and this is a contractual obligation.

THIS IS YOUR DIRECTIVE. Article 37 opening preamble states it.

We are to be trained to drive, to record, to lift, to load and unload and then released onto the streets to "manage" the day in the best interests of the employer. This is "our" responsibility by contract. The duties of each function of the delivery business rests with us as drivers.

Only "we" can control the business day and we can either jack it up intentionally, or act responsibly and make good business decisions during the day. Before ORION, who made these decisions? When to go somewhere, when to stop, how long to give to a chatty customer etc etc... these are the parameters that "WE" as drivers are obligated to control under Article 37.

Managements role is to train us, to develope better business practices but NOT to on a whim tell us something to do contrary to a good business decision.

If we only worked under a premise of "working as directed", we would have to call in everytime a decision had to me made, but fortunately, Jim Casey trusted that "we" if compensated fairly would make those decisions without having to consult with some desk jockey all day long.

Yes, the company can create whatever system they want to create, and implement it and ask us to comply with it, but when face with a "contradicting directive", its OUR obligation to make the right decision for the business.

ORION has placed all drivers currently on it into "contradicting directives" all day long. Forcing Uturns to go in a direction behind you vs in front of you. Forcing you to cross blvds in a hop scotch pattern vs running a street one side then the other. ORION increasing backing incidents in a center is one of the largest "contradicting directives" we are facing.

We all know that backing only increases the chance of an accident, yet ORION is planning these manuevers all day on every route. For now, I personally am backing as many times as its telling me to do. In a dense residential neighborhood like the ones i deliver, there is no driving around. Its only three point turns in the middle of a block.

As a driver, I would NEVER attempt or even think about these moves, but to work around it only demonstrates a false positive to the company. I believe the company should see the program for what it is. I hit a record 71 backs on one day vs the normal 35 to 40 i do regularly.

My primary contractual directive is to perform my duties in the best interests of the company and that means "I" make those decisions when I am on the road.

Anything that compromises school closures, saver failures, missed pickups or business failures is a counter directive that we should not be forced to follow.

"WORKING AS DIRECTED" is a myth and will never hold up in arbitration compared to a written directive in our contract.

TOS.

 

[kingOFchester]

I think your premise is wrong from the jump. One of the biggest problems with UPS drivers is not knowing what a "directive" is.

First, lets dispense with the "working as directive" theory. You said "In fact, I am contractually obligated to work as directed." This is untrue and NOT a fact.

There isnt one section of our NMA, Supplementals, Riders or Addendums that includes a section on working as directed. I have always worked with the understanding to follow direction, grieve later. As long as isn't illegal or immoral.

Unless you can demonstrate a place where "we" are contracted to "WORK AS DIRECTED" I wouldnt say that again.

"WE" do have a contractual obligation to "perform" our duties in a certain manner, and this is a contractual obligation.

THIS IS YOUR DIRECTIVE. Article 37 opening preamble states it.

We are to be trained to drive, to record, to lift, to load and unload and then released onto the streets to "manage" the day in the best interests of the employer. This is "our" responsibility by contract. The duties of each function of the delivery business rests with us as drivers.

Only "we" can control the business day and we can either jack it up intentionally, or act responsibly and make good business decisions during the day. Before ORION, who made these decisions? When to go somewhere, when to stop, how long to give to a chatty customer etc etc... these are the parameters that "WE" as drivers are obligated to control under Article 37.

Managements role is to train us, to develope better business practices but NOT to on a whim tell us something to do contrary to a good business decision.

If we only worked under a premise of "working as directed", we would have to call in everytime a decision had to me made, but fortunately, Jim Casey trusted that "we" if compensated fairly would make those decisions without having to consult with some desk jockey all day long.

Yes, the company can create whatever system they want to create, and implement it and ask us to comply with it, but when face with a "contradicting directive", its OUR obligation to make the right decision for the business.

ORION has placed all drivers currently on it into "contradicting directives" all day long. Forcing Uturns to go in a direction behind you vs in front of you. Forcing you to cross blvds in a hop scotch pattern vs running a street one side then the other. ORION increasing backing incidents in a center is one of the largest "contradicting directives" we are facing.

We all know that backing only increases the chance of an accident, yet ORION is planning these manuevers all day on every route. For now, I personally am backing as many times as its telling me to do. In a dense residential neighborhood like the ones i deliver, there is no driving around. Its only three point turns in the middle of a block.

As a driver, I would NEVER attempt or even think about these moves, but to work around it only demonstrates a false positive to the company. I believe the company should see the program for what it is. I hit a record 71 backs on one day vs the normal 35 to 40 i do regularly.

My primary contractual directive is to perform my duties in the best interests of the company and that means "I" make those decisions when I am on the road.

Anything that compromises school closures, saver failures, missed pickups or business failures is a counter directive that we should not be forced to follow.

"WORKING AS DIRECTED" is a myth and will never hold up in arbitration compared to a written directive in our contract.

TOS.

You should become a writer. Perhaps a big publisher would be interested in your lengthy postings. Yes, you are correct, there is no wording in the contract that says work as directed. It is common practice however to work as directed when the request is coming from your employer.

Look, I have said all I need to say. I am working as directed. I am not breaking the contract. I am making more money by following the request of my employer. That is all that matters to me.

I hope there wasn't anything important that i missed in your post. Didn't have the desire to read all of it.

 

[BigBrown3605]

We are starting ORION next week and going live at the end of June. I'm already depressed thinking about it.....

I guess I will be getting of at 10 every night if followed.

However, I refuse to back into a driveway. I refuse to skip business's to deliver residential which have no commit time. I'm not digging out a package in the 5000 shelf in a bricked out truck when its already 90 degrees in TEXAS.

I suppose I can go around and open the back doors and unload the truck. But really, the job is already strenuous. Why touch a package more than I have too?.......

 

[soberups]

I hope there wasn't anything important that i missed in your post. Didn't have the desire to read all of it.

Too many big words?

Not everything in life can be dumbed down into simple phrases and buzzwords. Some things are a bit more complex than that.