Orion warning letters

[Mugarolla]

Please tell me you aren't including all BA's in this conversation. There are a vast majority that are there for the membership and they can't control where or when the hearings are. You also know the union isn't the only party that picks the locations. It appears you are lumping all into one category. The ones that make themselves available 7 days a week don't deserve that kind of pounding. The National Panel is in FL, CA and MN this year, all different conferences (Central, Southern and Western).

On another note I have been reading the back and forth with you and BUG. Just for the record the BA has the right to resolve any grievance, once it is filed, as he/she sees fit. It works well when you have an agent who knows what they are doing, knows the language in the CBA and doesn't play politics with the members. Most members appreciate honesty and an explanation as to why.

I would add that it is probably more than the vast majority. It is probably most.

There are a few that don't understand UPS or the contract and then there are a few that really don't care.

There is probably not that many, but if you are in a local with one of these, you see it first hand.

Bubblehead's BA seems to be a prime example.

And you are correct about a BA being able to settle a grievance whether or not the grievant agrees.

But again, most are honest and do the best they can with the grievants best interest in mind.

 

[Bubblehead]

I would add that it is probably more than the vast majority. It is probably most.

There are a few that don't understand UPS or the contract and then there are a few that really don't care.

There is probably not that many, but if you are in a local with one of these, you see it first hand.

Bubblehead's BA seems to be a prime example.

And you are correct about a BA being able to settle a grievance whether or not the grievant agrees.

But again, most are honest and do the best they can with the grievants best interest in mind.

How do you quantify the difference between the "vast majority" and "probably most"?

Those semantics aside, I would agree that the system in place, three year terms, are designed to motivate an agent or officer of the local to be effective.
That's were the system gets fuzzy around here.
The moment they are elected and introduced to the "system", they are presented with conflict between satisfying the needs of their members and the inner politics of the panels and the International.
My experience is that the "probably most" of the "vast majority" struggle mightily with this transition in one form or another.
I suspect I will struggle as well if ever presented with the opportunity....with the politics part.

 

[5habits100]

I am only referring to the frame of reference that I am a privy to.
If you were a member of my local, which you aren't, you would understand.

As far as panel locations, I was only referring to the winter JAC's for the Central Region, which are always in Florida, not the National Panels.
I didn't include the summer panel in Traverse City, that is at least in the region, but hardly "centralized".

Can you honestly say that Florida, in their prime season, is a cost efficient option for the Central Region JAC?



I agree, it says so on the grievance form.
If only I had a BA "who knows what they are doing"?

You don't know if I am a member of your local. Stop assuming.
There are 4 JAC Panels. 2 the union selects, the other 2 the union selects. There are locals in Florida that are in Central States.
Traverse City is probably the employer pick. But I am assuming.
It isn't prime season in Florida yet.
Stop picking on the poor BA

 

[5habits100]

How do you quantify the difference between the "vast majority" and "probably most"?

Those semantics aside, I would agree that the system in place, three year terms, are designed to motivate an agent or officer of the local to be effective.
That's were the system gets fuzzy around here.
The moment they are elected and introduced to the "system", they are presented with conflict between satisfying the needs of their members and the inner politics of the panels and the International.
My experience is that the "probably most" of the "vast majority" struggle mightily with this transition in one form or another.
I suspect I will struggle as well if ever presented with the opportunity....with the politics part.

It isn't the "system" in my opinion. Someone either has desire to do the job the proper way or they don't. It isn't the system.
If presented the opportunity to do the job you will struggle with everything about it.
But you will be fine.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

What I don't understand is how a "Big Union Guy" like yourself isn't at every JAC, chairing and/or sitting on the various panels for all of the "Big" cases?

It goes by seniority.

And I generally don't carry chapstick, as a constant companion.

On another note I have been reading the back and forth with you and BUG. Just for the record the BA has the right to resolve any grievance, once it is filed, as he/she sees fit. It works well when you have an agent who knows what they are doing, knows the language in the CBA and doesn't play politics with the members. Most members appreciate honesty and an explanation as to why.

I agree, it says so on the grievance form.
If only I had a BA "who knows what they are doing"?

Technically speaking, the Union is the (sole) bargaining agent.

The contract is between the Union and the company.... not individuals.

But, your not helping me inspire confidence in the members.


My Local involves the grievant. That's just the way we do it.



-Bug-

 

[BigUnionGuy]

There are locals in Florida that are in Central States.

You might be confusing the Central States Pension fund.... with the Central Region.

Traverse City is probably the employer pick.

The former Central Region Union Chairman was from Michigan.

Stop picking on the poor BA

That's what the ballot box is for.



-Bug-

 

[5habits100]

It goes by seniority.

And I generally don't carry chapstick, as a constant companion.





Technically speaking, the Union is the (sole) bargaining agent.

The contract is between the Union and the company.... not individuals.

But, your not helping me inspire confidence in the members.


My Local involves the grievant. That's just the way we do it.



-Bug-

The grievant should be involved but they don't have to be. It may come as a surprise to some but the employer can make it difficult when scheduling dates and times. In that rare occasion you get the facts from them and hear it, if they are good with it. If you don't you could have grievances waiting for months that need to be heard locally.

 

[5habits100]

You might be confusing the Central States Pension fund.... with the Central Region.



The former Central Region Union Chairman was from Michigan.



That's what the ballot box is for.



-Bug-

I'm not confused at all. I wrote Central States for a reason.
I agree with the ballot box comment. The shame is we fought for the right to vote and the majority don't exercise that right. Look at the count in the contracts, local elections, IBT elections.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

It may come as a surprise to some but the employer can make it difficult when scheduling dates and times. In that rare occasion you get the facts from them and hear it, if they are good with it. If you don't you could have grievances waiting for months that need to be heard locally.

That is the easiest problem to fix.


You send the company a certified letter, on your Local Union letterhead.

In the letter you offer a list of dates you are available.

If they don't respond in a timely manner.... you slate them for the panel.

Or, file Labor Board charges.... with your documentation, as supplementation.


Problem solved.



-Bug-

 

[5habits100]

That is the easiest problem to fix.


You send the company a certified letter, on your Local Union letterhead.

In the letter you offer a list of dates you are available.

If they don't respond in a timely manner.... you slate them for the panel.

Or, file Labor Board charges.... with your documentation, as supplementation.


Problem solved.



-Bug-

I agree, go back to post #164. In my words "it isn't the system". You either want to do the job or you don't. And by you I don't mean you.

 

[Bubblehead]

That is the easiest problem to fix.


You send the company a certified letter, on your Local Union letterhead.

In the letter you offer a list of dates you are available.

If they don't respond in a timely manner.... you slate them for the panel.

Or, file Labor Board charges.... with your documentation, as supplementation.


Problem solved.



-Bug-

Our BA's look at me like I have 3 heads when I suggest this, and I have for years.

Not once has it been done, nor have they ever filed Labor Charges for grievances not being heard.
Meanwhile, they scratch their heads wondering why we 100's of unheard grievances, dating back years.

 

[Mugarolla]

How do you quantify the difference between the "vast majority" and "probably most"?

Semantics. When someone talks about the vast majority, I see that as being 80-90% If someone is then saying that we have a problem with 10-20% of our BA's, we are in trouble.

Most, as I said, I consider 95-100% If someone is saying we have a problem with 0-5% of our BA's, I would tend to agree with that.

 

[Grey]

Some old timers in our center know their route so well they run it on EDD without switching to EDD. Apparently they can't be disciplined for it that way.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Some old timers in our center know their route so well they run it on EDD without switching to EDD. Apparently they can't be disciplined for it that way.

I think you may be confused by the terms being used.

EDD is the listing of the delivery stops and number of packages for each stop in the DIAD.

RDO is regular delivery order.

ODO is Orion delivery order.

 

[ArcherUTR]

That's why Orion has to be able to update the dispatch after every stop.
AI technology and more powerful hardware will enable this.

Maybe in about 25 years, but bottom line 'The traveling salesman problem' is intractable.

 

[ArcherUTR]

Im curious? My area is very country. I may get 15-20 signatures a day. I have no air commits. On average I do 95 stops. 160 pieces. And, pick up about 10 a day. Drive 175 miles. I really don't think I will have anything close to you city fellas. Are there any rural drivers who can say Orion is slowing them down also?

Your pickups will probably be the biggest factor. Orion will try to keep you close to them. Other than that it will find the shortest solution in your magical u-turn truck.

 

[Lead Belly]

Our BA's look at me like I have 3 heads when I suggest this, and I have for years.

Not once has it been done, nor have they ever filed Labor Charges for grievances not being heard.
Meanwhile, they scratch their heads wondering why we 100's of unheard grievances, dating back years.

I bet you have one Ba that loves to file labor board charges.

 

[Catatonic]

Maybe in about 25 years, but bottom line 'The traveling salesman problem' is intractable.

or in this context unretraceable

 

[Grey]

I think you may be confused by the terms being used.

EDD is the listing of the delivery stops and number of packages for each stop in the DIAD.

RDO is regular delivery order.

ODO is Orion delivery order.

Yeah I just meant the regular delivery order opposite of Orion. They know their route so well they just run it by RDO without switching to RDO so they don't have to constantly dig for packages. Management can't do anything about it that way.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Yeah I just meant the regular delivery order opposite of Orion. They know their route so well they just run it by RDO without switching to RDO so they don't have to constantly dig for packages. Management can't do anything about it that way.

...unless they mandate a minimum Orion trace percentage...

Our center is supposed to go live w/Orion in September. I noticed on Friday that they started printing a report showing our trace percentage and the number of times that we broke trace. 70% seemed to be the threshold as anyone who ran 70% or more had their percentage bold printed while those who were below did not. I was right around 71%.