Positive use of New contract

[PT Stewie]

alright i should have waited til Jan 1 when it goes into effect to start this thread.

I am just curious on the unclear elements of the contract.

I would like to know if part timers are happier in their new UPS healthcare plan and what the details of that plan are.

I would like to know the number of or what new jobs are created when UPS lets the teamsters know next year.

And if people are retiring after Jan 1st to take advantage of the cs service credit pensions returning.

stuff like that

 

[PT Stewie]

alright i should have waited til Jan 1 when it goes into effect to start this thread.

I am just curious on the unclear elements of the contract.

I would like to know if part timers are happier in their new UPS healthcare plan and what the details of that plan are.

I would like to know the number of or what new jobs are created when UPS lets the teamsters know next year.

And if people are retiring after Jan 1st to take advantage of the cs service credit pensions returning.

stuff like that

Will get back to you about PT health care plan. Meeting this Monday before the sort and all week. I will be in the front row taking notes . Article 34 Section 2 "Part time employees covered by a teamster health and welfare fund will will continue to be covered by those funds. Why a new plan? As a steward I have been bombarded by questions about this since the vote and the local keeps saying all is well and I have conveyed the same to all part timers who have asked. Why do I get the feeling this is not good?

 

[705red]

Please link where anyone said this.

I believe, and I could be wrong, that the comment was directed at a certain group of people. They come here with an agenda doing nothing but talking about how awful this contract is. nothing about it is good or if they see anything good they don't mention it. Their goal, in my opinion, is to sow the seeds of doubt and dissent. They may be associated with a group vying for power within the Teamsters or they may just enjoy stirring up trouble on message boards in their spare time.

Braveheart has been herefor sometime now, and alot of us like reading his posts. Your judging of his approach or agenda is uncalled for in implying that he is here to complain about the contract. I dont agree with the name calling of people for voting yes or no. Braveheart spoke of his concerns on the contract, why not point out what you think is good in the contract, or make an argument in defense of his post?

 

[Damok]

Braveheart has been herefor sometime now, and alot of us like reading his posts. Your judging of his approach or agenda is uncalled for in implying that he is here to complain about the contract. I dont agree with the name calling of people for voting yes or no. Braveheart spoke of his concerns on the contract, why not point out what you think is good in the contract, or make an argument in defense of his post?

If you look back at my post you'll see I was directing my response at Idolessworkthanmost asking where people said the things he mentioned and then gave my opinions about a group of people that come here for a certain reason or agenda. Are you saying you don't believe there are people here that do that? I will clarify to say that there are agendas on both sides.

I never talked about Braveheart specifically or included him in that group. Looking at his post however, I find it interesting that he listed a bunch of complaints in a thread called "Positive use of New Contract". Saying that doesn't mean I believe he falls into the same category as people like LibertyBear though.

Judging me in the same fashion you criticize me for is... how did you say it? Uncalled for.

 

[tieguy]

Braveheart has been herefor sometime now, and alot of us like reading his posts. Your judging of his approach or agenda is uncalled for in implying that he is here to complain about the contract. I dont agree with the name calling of people for voting yes or no. Braveheart spoke of his concerns on the contract, why not point out what you think is good in the contract, or make an argument in defense of his post?

this thread is supposed to be about positives. He went the other way. I'm really not surprised that other negative company haters are supporting his post. Its to be expected.

 

[705red]

this thread is supposed to be about positives. He went the other way. I'm really not surprised that other negative company haters are supporting his post. Its to be expected.

Tie you of all people are complaining about someone posting outside of the thread topic? You have derailed more threads on this forum by your self than probably the rest of us combined! I have told you before that i dont hate the company, i hate the mis-managing managers and no-thinking sups that we have running this company into the ground right now. Im just riding the wave hoping that all the dead weight sups will get caught fudging the numbers and one day we can promote from within again and put the service back into U P S!

 

[tieguy]

Tie you of all people are complaining about someone posting outside of the thread topic? !

the original complaint which I chimed in was not thread jacking but someone who has nothing but negative things to say. He proved that point by listing 13 negatives on a thread that was supposed to be positives.

 

[Fighting4yourRights]

Here's my positive opinion for this thread - isn't it a beautiful time of the year?

 

[browned out]

There is a negative use of new contract post. This is the positive.

I am trying to start two threads both positive and negative that detail what happens between now and 2012 regarding the new contract.

We will see what results from the new language- positive or negative

and hopefully educate some UPSers along the way; so next time they at least read the contract before they vote on it.

 

[Braveheart]

Bravehearts comments looked to be presented in a reasonable manner to me.

Thank you. I am just stating all of the NEW changes to the contract that will ALLOW UPS to misuse or abuse the power it already has. We are the amongst the best paid in the industry with great benefits. I have said all along that the .70 cent raise that by the way is .30 cents less than our most recent raise was fine and that I would take even less to FIX the pension and health care.

I just do not see why we fix the transmission yet throw out tha ABS and air bags.

I was told that we got an extra nickle as part of the agreement to split the raises. I did the math and it will take 4 years and 48 months to recoup the delayed money lost to the raises being 6 months deferred.

I have stated that I would take flat .75 cent raises or even flat .50 cent raises every year to help fix the pension and healthcare.

Remember people, WE HELPED UPS MAKE OVER $4 BILLION DOLLARS IN PROFIT EACH OF THE LAST TWO YEARS!!!!

Why are so many people labeling others. Have they never seen an innocent person get fired? Have they never been harassed, disrespected, lied too?

People say, oh well things could be worse.

I say, NO THINGS COULD BE BETTER!!

To all of those who think I am Whining. Try being a shop steward and witness the outright lies told on a daily basis by management for say 10 years and then maybe you will get a better handle on it. I have personally helped recoup countless payroll shortages, reinstated drivers and part timers jobs who were either outright innocent or were only deserving of a warning letter or suspension.

There are all of the people who were denied 8 hour days AFTER they were granted that I helped get fixed. Then there are are all of the people not paid holidays, holiday double time, that I helped correct too. Then there are all of the ART 48 seniority violations fixed when the managers tried to work drivers out of seniority order that I helped correct.

Then there are all the drivers wrongfully denied days off that I helped get fixed. Then there are all the seniority dates improved and backdated, then additional full time promotions that I helped get for people as they tried to abuse the cover driver language and not promote them.

Then there are all the employees that were lied to and told that they have no personal day coming or that they have no vacation time coming when in fact they really did!

I presume that none of these dues paying members that do this back breaking job had legitimate complaints and that they were all whiners too huh?!?!

Oh wait, I won all of those grievances for ALL THOSE TEAMSTERS so I presume that they would then be legit then huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I bitch alot, but then again I have seen it happen over and over again!

 

[Braveheart]

You mean someone who lists 13 things he thinks is wrong with the contract without listing one positive item is automatically labeled a whiner?

Or did you mean its ok to whine about the contract but its not ok to whine about the whining of the contract?

You of course would love this contract as it gives you a hell of alot more than it does to the employees that make you rich.

IF the pension thing holds true then it would be a good thing. IF!!!

There are some things in my supplement that were good in that they fixed some confusing language sure.

The big things that everybody brags about like doubletime for sups working and triple time for excessive 9.5 violations are great if you like working the excessive hours and chasing after the sups who are working. Thing is we just want to go hame at a reasonable hour for the love of GOD!!!!

It would be nice if the pension was indexed for inflation by the way. I would love for you to post the managers pension charts for all to see. I dare ya!

After all, when you manager types bring us in to address concerns or legit complaints, are you not really just whining about the same old BS? Or are you addressing real problems?

 

[tieguy]

You of course would love this contract as it gives you a hell of alot more than it does to the employees that make you rich.

Actually i also love the contract because I think its finally doing something to finally fix the central states pension mess. I also like the fact that the quick 90 day progression for part timers will probably help us retain more of them and basically amounts to a 1.50 increase in the starting wage. I'm also amazed that your side was able to squeeze another 9 buck an hour increase out of us which is pretty hefty and going to put you guys miles ahead of what our competitors are paying. Those points I have made in the past. I've tried to stay out of telling anyone to vote yes for the contract. I have made many posts where I have told people to research everything , listen to both sides, attend their union meetings and then participate in the process. I have no use and i despise those people who come on here and try to tell everyone they think the contract sucks when they never even attended their unions contract review meetings.

There are some things in my supplement that were good in that they fixed some confusing language sure.

The big things that everybody brags about like doubletime for sups working and triple time for excessive 9.5 violations are great if you like working the excessive hours and chasing after the sups who are working. Thing is we just want to go hame at a reasonable hour for the love of GOD!!!!

If you really loved that you would probably encourage the sups to do all your work

It would be nice if the pension was indexed for inflation by the way. I would love for you to post the managers pension charts for all to see. I dare ya!

Don't have it to post. What are you looking for? I know a guy that just retired with 35 years and 3900 a month. Did you expect it to be higher or lower?

After all, when you manager types bring us in to address concerns or legit complaints, are you not really just whining about the same old BS? Or are you addressing real problems?

Like what missed pickups, missed deliveries unrecorded packages? What do you call whining?

 

[tieguy]

Thank you. I am just stating all of the NEW changes to the contract that will ALLOW UPS to misuse or abuse the power it already has. We are the amongst the best paid in the industry with great benefits. I have said all along that the .70 cent raise that by the way is .30 cents less than our most recent raise was fine and that I would take even less to FIX the pension and health care.

I just do not see why we fix the transmission yet throw out tha ABS and air bags.

I was told that we got an extra nickle as part of the agreement to split the raises. I did the math and it will take 4 years and 48 months to recoup the delayed money lost to the raises being 6 months deferred.

I have stated that I would take flat .75 cent raises or even flat .50 cent raises every year to help fix the pension and healthcare.

Remember people, WE HELPED UPS MAKE OVER $4 BILLION DOLLARS IN PROFIT EACH OF THE LAST TWO YEARS!!!!

Why are so many people labeling others. Have they never seen an innocent person get fired? Have they never been harassed, disrespected, lied too?

People say, oh well things could be worse.

I say, NO THINGS COULD BE BETTER!!

To all of those who think I am Whining. Try being a shop steward and witness the outright lies told on a daily basis by management for say 10 years and then maybe you will get a better handle on it. I have personally helped recoup countless payroll shortages, reinstated drivers and part timers jobs who were either outright innocent or were only deserving of a warning letter or suspension.

There are all of the people who were denied 8 hour days AFTER they were granted that I helped get fixed. Then there are are all of the people not paid holidays, holiday double time, that I helped correct too. Then there are all of the ART 48 seniority violations fixed when the managers tried to work drivers out of seniority order that I helped correct.

Then there are all the drivers wrongfully denied days off that I helped get fixed. Then there are all the seniority dates improved and backdated, then additional full time promotions that I helped get for people as they tried to abuse the cover driver language and not promote them.

Then there are all the employees that were lied to and told that they have no personal day coming or that they have no vacation time coming when in fact they really did!

I presume that none of these dues paying members that do this back breaking job had legitimate complaints and that they were all whiners too huh?!?!

Oh wait, I won all of those grievances for ALL THOSE TEAMSTERS so I presume that they would then be legit then huh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I bitch alot, but then again I have seen it happen over and over again!

I'm not sure where you work and I don't doubt that you see some of what you speak of from time to time. I also see stewards who spend a lot of time trying to defend drivers that basically did not do what they were supposed to do. In fact most of a stewards time on a discipline side is spent trying to defend cut and dried discipline. Did the driver have an accident ? yes he did. Did a driver miss a pickup because he failed to follow the methods ? yes he did. Did the driver pull the wrong load because he failed to check the seal control and match it to the trailer number? yes he did. So yes you have some corrupt management and you have some situations where ego's or personal dislikes get into the equation but the those are the exception not the rule. Great speech though.

 

[badsporh]

I'm not sure where you work and I don't doubt that you see some of what you speak of from time to time. I also see stewards who spend a lot of time trying to defend drivers that basically did not do what they were supposed to do. In fact most of a stewards time on a discipline side is spent trying to defend cut and dried discipline. Did the driver have an accident ? yes he did. Did a driver miss a pickup because he failed to follow the methods ? yes he did. Did the driver pull the wrong load because he failed to check the seal control and match it to the trailer number? yes he did. So yes you have some corrupt management and you have some situations where ego's or personal dislikes get into the equation but the those are the exception not the rule. Great speech though.

So you would try to discipline a driver over a missed pickup? Do you think drivers are infailable machines? How many mistakes do YOU make during the course of a day you hypocrite? How many times do YOU fail to follow whatever prescribed methods YOU have in your job? How many times a day do YOU log on to the internet knowing that you are violating company policy? Do you have some sort of "God complex"? Luckily for you, there are alot less ways to track your miserable performance, than there are to track a drivers hard work. Start right, Stay right.......what a joke.

 

[badsporh]

I love continually gettin' my posts deleted on here! What a waste of my brilliant intellect!

 

[705red]

I'm not sure where you work and I don't doubt that you see some of what you speak of from time to time. I also see stewards who spend a lot of time trying to defend drivers that basically did not do what they were supposed to do. In fact most of a stewards time on a discipline side is spent trying to defend cut and dried discipline. Did the driver have an accident ?

Just because a driver is involved in an accident does not mean he is at fault. Just because your safety team calls it an avoidable accident does not mean it was avoidable. The truth is ups will always blame the driver because its his fault automatically and its my job to argue his/her side.

yes he did. Did a driver miss a pickup because he failed to follow the methods ?

How many customers have called in saying they never received a pick up, just because they were not ready when the pu happened, or the driver talked to someone at the pu but someone else shipped something later, but again its the drivers fault for not having esp!

es he did. Did the driver pull the wrong load because he failed to check the seal control and match it to the trailer number? yes he did.

Now in not perfect when it comes to feeder language or the job, but dont the drivers call and verify everything before leaving the property? Ifso wouldnt there be a little management accountability?

So yes you have some corrupt management and you have some situations where ego's or personal dislikes get into the equation but the those are the exception not the rule. Great speech though.

Now i understand and agree with you that there are bad apples on both sides, management and hourly. I can argue almost anything on behalf of the employee, except for attendance. Its no one elses responsibilty to get to work and on time but the employee!

 

[Braveheart]

Like what missed pickups, missed deliveries unrecorded packages? What do you call whining?

What 9 dollar raise are you talking about? Even after adding all of the raises together it does not add up to 9 bucks. I also do not see where you get the $1.50 raise either? It is only a $1.00 after 90 days. I do not make up these things they really do happen. Like when UPS had that ILLEGAL tax shelter offshore in the form a phony re-insurance stock that we were sold 1 share of for every 3 or 4 shares of UPS stock we bought. I remember UPS paying the I. R. S. like 800-900 MILLION DOLLARS in back taxes and penalties. Oh and you can trust anything that is made in China too?!?!

 

[Babagounj]

Like when UPS had that ILLEGAL tax shelter offshore in the form a phony re-insurance stock that we were sold 1 share of for every 3 or 4 shares of UPS stock we bought. I remember UPS paying the I. R. S. like 800-900 MILLION DOLLARS in back taxes and penalties.

Which if you followed the story was overturned by the courts on appeal. And all fines were returned to the company with interest.

 

[Fredless]

I have been enforcing the double time for sups working to the minute. It's been adding up. Since January 3rd it has been my goal to file 5 grievances a day.

They want to disicipline my members for 1 minute late or 1 misload, I'm going for every little thing I can now. Its nice really, it has been adding up.

What it has also done is sparking a ton of interest in the union by the part timers. I got one lady to file her first grievance and she has been at our hub since 1999. I have been using this new contract as a new way to awaken the apathetic part timers in my building with the message the only really good thing we got out of this new contract is the double time for management working. If you're not going to get a 22.3 or FT driving job anytime soon, might as well make money on the side by enforcing the contract.

I am on target for 17 greivances this week myself, and about 10 from the members. This is from a part time reload shift as well with about 70 hourlies.

I told the hub manager "yeah well my GPH has been down." he goes "GPH?" Yeah, greivance per hour.

 

[tieguy]

What 9 dollar raise are you talking about?
Even after adding all of the raises together it does not add up to 9 bucks.

4.50 in pay increase plus 4.50 /hour in pension increases equals 9 buck an hour more UPS will be paying you.

I also do not see where you get the $1.50 raise either? It is only a $1.00 after 90 days.

Actually they could be making as much as 2 dollars more if they learn to sort.

I do not make up these things they really do happen.

Really?

Like when UPS had that ILLEGAL tax shelter offshore in the form a phony re-insurance stock that we were sold 1 share of for every 3 or 4 shares of UPS stock we bought. I remember UPS paying the I. R. S. like 800-900 MILLION DOLLARS in back taxes and penalties. Oh and you can trust anything that is made in China too?!?!

Ok in the case of the irs you did not make it up you just put your own incorrect spin on it. You conviently forgot to mention that ups won this case in court and proved the IRS was wrong. Small oversight on your part