profits to management!! WHY??

[over9five]

I have to agree. You'd have to be a fool to hand in a sales lead. And its so sad that we have to think this way. With the dispatch thru the roof, cutting routes in hundred degree weather, it really has you thinking only about surviving this day.

 

[air_upser]

Operations Management- what do you say about the routes and the long day issues? How long do all drivers in a center need to put in 10 hour days until a route is split and a driver added?

I don't know what to think about profit sharing. On one side, maybe drivers do deserve a share. But, on the other side they get paid for any work they do. Management does not get paid any more for working 8 hour days or 14 hour days. In my position, my pager and cell phone can(and does) go off at any time 24 hours a day. Why should I share profits with someone who says they wear a brown shirt but work for the Union? I know that's a minority sentiment, but it's really frustrating. If we give you a share of the profits will you continue to work if the pilots go on strike? What if we lose money? Will you continue to work your butt off to make a profit again, or blame management?

I wonder what it would be like if one center was one business, with everyone in the center being an equal partner in the business, from the center manager to the service provider. I think it would be a fun simulation, if any of you have participated is those at school. Would you hire a helper for $400 a week, or work harder so the $400 goes in your pocket?

 

[feguy]

Here we go again. This seems to be such a hard concept for so many of you. You need to work harder to understand what profits are, and how they are used. Profit is NOT a pile of money left over at the end, and put in a bank.
You have all, as I have, received numerous PCM's, and longer meetings (Challenge of the '80s, Delivering our Future, One Vision, and various Learning Map (I think the last one might have been learining map #5?)detailing what UPS does with its' profits. Pay more attention. I could school you and make a listing of how profits are used, but I really don't care to. Look it up, because you sound and appear foolish spouting off about what you think UPS does or doesn't do with it's profits.
Lastly, ok2 states "you'd have to be a fool to hand in a sales lead"
That type of thinking is in fact, foolish.

 

[tieguy]

"Because while I'm putting in a sales lead here in Jersey my fellow driver in California is doing the same,and yur logic is to cut routes and over dispatch, why should we bring in more volume, the volume is up and they still cut routes, and o yeah that sales lead from California ends up on my truck in NJ thats 1,2 maybe 3 more stop 2 maybe 3 times a week and maybe more, do they put in more routes noooooooo they cut them, now you tell me where is the logic in that????"

Oh ok . the boss is asking you to do too much work. In that case give the sales lead to fedex so you can ride around with an empty package car.

 

[racerx]

Okay.. This string covers a whole bunch of topics that I would like to weigh in on.

1. The purpose of any business is to make money for the owners. Period. End of discussion. Whether it be a small, private company with a relatively few number of owners, or whether it is the largest package delivery company in the world with millions of owners that are known as shareholders. The purpose of a company is not to create jobs. Job creation is the result of a successful business. If the business is growing, it will take more people to continue that growth. If the business flounders, then there will not be any new jobs.

2. DHL and Fedex are not eating away at our volume! Wow, Rushfan, what a myopic view of our business. Do you really interpret the condition of our business by what happens on your route? In your Center? In your District? I believe what Isdrone was saying is that yes, we are currently doing well, but that does not mean that it will continue indefinitely. We should not get too comfortable with our current state of business and trade in the momentum that we have in our industry for a short term payoff.

3. You'd have to be a fool to hand in a sales lead. Again. All I can say is wow. Restrict the growth of the company because you will have too much work? Thats crazy! Reading through these pages it is easy to see that management is asking the drivers to a lot more work with fewer drivers. But whose fault is that? Lets put it this way lets say that you have a large yard and you are sick of cutting it yourself. So, you hire a guy to come out every week with one mower and mow your grass. And this lawn guy is the best around everyone comments that you have the best lawn in town. But one day, the guy says that it takes him too long to cut your grass. He would like to have someone to help him so he can get done faster. However, due to local business rules, if you hire a 2nd man to help, you have to pay him exactly what you pay the 1st guy even though he will only be working a few hours. What would you do? Would you double your lawn care costs to get the 1st guy home? Be honest now..

Now I agree that most of our drivers are working a lot more hours than they want to, but it seems to me that the union has brought that upon themselves by not allowing management enough flexibility in hiring drivers. I hope that during the next contract talks the union is willing to concede some of the rules for new hires in order to get their rank and file home to their families sooner.

 

[deliver_man]

Your lawn care analogy is interesting, but you left out the part where you doubled the size of your lawn and told the lawncare guy he should still be able get it mowed in the same amount of time. That's why he wants help. It's also why I generally dislike analogies, they seldom hold true.

I do agree that with you that it is incredibly foolish and shortsighted to pass up a business opportunity. Being overdispatched has never stopped me from turning in a sales lead, I have always viewed
volume development and dispatch to be two separate issues. I can work with my center team, and use the grievance process if necessary, to fix my dispatch. All the grievances in the world won't bring back a missed business opportunity or lost volume.

(Message edited by deliver_man on July 27, 2005)

 

[upsdawg]

Sales Leads are a necessity from everyone, not just drivers. In my district, there are routes in areas that are growing extremely fast--there are also areas that customers are moving away from and our volume is down-------where is the volume going?? DHL is buying new business----yes, some of it comes back to us because of poor service, just like it used to with RPS...as RPS got better and came under the FEDX umbrella, less of the volume returned to UPS---the same will hold true for DHL------they will get better and less of the volume they are "Buying" from shippers will come back! I have heard DHL offering free shipping to companies for 30 days if they switch---hard to pass this up!If our ground volume continues to decline...at what point, and how many routes do we have to cut to start drumming up new business? as the thread(DannyBoy)indicates---it is much harder to get business back--and the cost is a lot higher!!(Speed Demon) excellent point---our drivers do a great job of protecting our volume---and we have customers that use us just because of their drivers---how do these drivers get compensated??-----maybe I am a little simple minded---but as shareholders.....hourly and management alike--don't we all get a dividend check and get to purchase stock at a reduced price and God willing, the price of stock continues to increase--we all share in our success of retaining our customers---what about the administrative person who finds a package for a customer and the customer is satisfied, should the admin get a bonus fo doing their job----and maybe the feeder driver who has to chain up to get over the mountain to make service on 2 trailers of packages, which make our customers satisfied---should they get a bonus---how about the TSG person who gewts a customers system up and running so they can ship that day-----should the TSG person get a bonus??

I want to work for a company who is financially sound-----and i knew when I hired on that the work was hard--and sometimes the weather would be hot--raining-snowing----there could be long hours (and there have!) But I sleep well at night knowing that my job is secure and we are winning the war on package volume--it is a war, and it is not going away---the competition will only get more fierce as we continue to get more competition!!!

 

[longups]

Wow, some of this that I'm hearing now is unbelievable! Haven't you guys ever heard of Railway Express? They were the BIG Common Carrier of small package delivery in the 160's and before. Now, they don't exist.

You have to grow or die! If UPS doesn't grow nobody will invest in UPS and the money needed for additional growth and expansion will dry up. Then we'll all be out of a job watching the FredEx guy deliver on what used to be a UPS route. If as some of you say, you have too much work think of the Railway Express guy that faded away.

Going to ddomino's original post, if you want to share in the profits of any company, you just buy the stock. That in itself is a risk. Hence, Risk -- Reward! Get it? If you don't buy the stock, you get a salary and that is your share of the revenue of the company. If you have no skin in the game like money you put on the stock you don't get the reward of profit and dividends.

 

[wily_old_vet]

longups-just one question. When is a 3.7% increase in GROUND volume a decrease. Yes fedex increased 9.3% but that number is based on a much lower base number. Comparing our 3.7 to their 9.3 is comparing apples to oranges and who says all that increase of theirs came from us. People leaving dhl could be switching to them or it could be people leaving the post office.

 

[susiedriver]

I may regret chiming in here, but

I think a good point is being made, namely: Why should management be given bonuses while the stock is languishing?

Since UPS went public, it is beholden to its shareholders, and as one of them, Im not real happy. If I would have bought stock, or had it deducted from my pay on the first of the year, I would be out around $12/share! In the meantime, management will be given a bonus of a couple of months salary for the great job they did! Does this make sense to anyone?

If the company is so profitable, why not reward those who invest in it with a special dividend, rather than reward dead weight for hanging around? Reward the investor occasionally; otherwise the investors dont think youre worth too much. I know quite a few folks who bought UPS after the IPO for close to $70/share because of the reputation we HAD. Jim Casey said something about best service, best price and every customer, everyday that seems to have fallen by the wayside

As a former driver, I feel this is one of the real sources of discontent in the workplace, along with the excess hours, which are evidently taking place as they have in the past, again.

I could point out specific things, like the use of full time drivers as shuttle drivers (sorry sir, Im not allowed to give you your packages, no matter how badly you need them, I have to wait for the route driver, and hand them to him to deliver) that are just plain idiotic, but whats the use?

I also agree with our management posters, that tuning down sales leads is suicidal, but I understand, from a drivers standpoint, that there is too much work already. The problem is that UPS front line management is duplicitous in their actions. They are distrustful of the hourly, and insecure in their own responsibilities. This leads to a bad work climate. I would prefer to think that upper management is a little bit more on the ball, and not so myopic.

Enough for now, I need a drink!


Peace, Out,

Susie


PS---Good points all around from everyone, so far.

 

[isdrone]

In the late 90's our ground market share was around 70%? It is now at 47% Look at this excerpt from an online article:

According to market researcher JPMorgan, UPS's share of the domestic parcel market fell one percentage point from 48% to 47% last year. That's a small but important shift in the tide, according to market watchers. FedEx increased its share from 29% to 31% in 2004 and DHL seized about 7% of the market after a year where it made big investments in the domestic U.S. parcel market. And its share is expected to grow even faster. JPMorgan says DHL could capture up to 18% by 2006, following its $1.2 billion planned expansion in the U.S.

DHL picked up 7%, FedEx picked up 2%. Did the ground market grow 10%? NO. We lost volume - period.

Some of the comments about not turning in sales leads are absolutely ridiculous. The "not in my backyard" philosophy won't work anymore. As a company we fell asleep at the wheel in 2003 & 2004. Do I agree with all of the changes no. It has affected me personally, but I understand why the changes were made.

Wake everyone. FedEx & DHL are preparing for 2008. 1time, upsdude, and Over5 dont worry if we go on strike in 2008 and I am sure your workload will decrease tremendously.

 

[upsdude]

Help me out here guys

In my 18 years driving Ive never ever seen missed pieces as being acceptable. Ive seen drivers suspended, fired etc for having missed pieces. The ONLY disciplinary action taken now is if the driver failed to call them in. What the heck are we doing? Most centers have missed pieces each and every day. Why? Most routes are so slammed every day that service is suffering. Delivering to businesses late evening, if at all. Damaged packages being placed on the car because we have to make an attempt. How about we rewrap the dang thing and make it look presentable. Ive said it before, Mike Eskew needs to get out of his office, brown up and get some dirt on his hands.

Maybe some of you guys are right. We need sales leads to replace the business we are giving away with poor service.

Bonus for management.. I dont care how much Joe Supervisor is paid or how much bonus he receives. I can submit a letter and join them anytime I want. No thanks.

 

[upsdawg]

Longups------good point about REA. I was a new driver in 1973 and remember the huge REA stack of packages and UPS would have 1 or 2----than it became 5-10---than UPS had them all and REA went bust.UPS has been fortunate for many years with virtually no competition other than USPS-----the game has changed players and now there are some good opponents---USPS--FEDEX--DHL---they're hitting us from all sides and we are losing volume to them.

I am hearing complaints from some drivers who are dispatched >8.5 hours-----and than complaining about Management getting a year end bonus----stop and think about how much money a driver makes at the OT rate---would you rather get paid for an 8 hour day....even if you work 10 or 12 hours a day... would you do that and than look forward to get a bonus at the end of the year to help compensate you for all the overtime you put in throughout the year-----I assume not, other wise you would have a letter in for a management position!!

I am enjoying the points made in this thread----we need to grow our business and stay profitable in order to be competitive in the future---more business--more profit======more opportunities!!

 

[moreluck]

Susie.... Sometimes the stock is languishing because of ONE analyst's voiced opinion. When a company goes public, the forces out there are many and varied that effect the stock price.

The mgmnt. can be doing an A+ job and deserve to be bonused and it may not be reflected in the stock's price.......except maybe for the fact that it didn't return to $52 level.

Oil, for one, has been a major factor and is a daily changing component of the hundreds of things that effect the stock price.

I may be naive, but I picture some newbie at Morgan Stanley or Bear Stearns combing his hair in the AM. and getting ready to go to work with the thought in his mind that he will make his mark today and downgrade UPS. He does it and the stock plummets......no mgrs. are to blame for that.
JMHO

 

[upsdude]

isdrone

Id say it dropped further than 1%. I think any growth we have experienced is the result of a growing economy. We grew because our customer grew.

Our level of service is horrible. I try and talk to folks about switching to UPS and their first excuse is a lack of service. I have a payroll company on my route that left Fred for us. They switched back to Fred after just 3 weeks. We were late delivering 4 NDAs that were sent to an address in the SAME center. Those packages shouldnt have left the building until delivery the next morning. No, we dont do things that way, IE has a system in place. BS. That system led to 4 NDAs being mis-sorted. I see Fred picking up about 100 letters a week from them we blew our chance.

I bust my tail kissing the customers rear end every day. I do whatever I can within the rules to make them happy. I grow tired of working my butt off just to have some IE guy with his calculator screw it all up. We say One Company but we arent. In the past we could sell UPS as a One Truck delivery, not anymore. Just like Fred, I deliver air, leave, then come back later with the ground. Much later. Yes Mr. Businessman, I have 35 ground pieces for you but you cant have them now, I have air to deliver.

I really wish some of the upper management would grow some and tell the boss it aint working.

 

[ok2bclever]

FEguy, do you mind telling me where I said what you have quoted me as saying?!?

I didn't say that, nor anything even close to that.

And I have an American Express card with a balance to prove it!

I agree we all need to grow the business where we can.

Most of the rest of what the management side guys stated is the usual company PRBS.

Great lip service platitudes which seems the only kind of service too many in management now offers to the public.

Railway Express, sheesh! I was sooooooo hoping all the dinosaurs that used that for the UPS boogie man had gone the same way as the dinosaurs.

The UPS driver has never, ever, ever been anything like the lazy butts that worked for that defunct company and it's about as accurate an analogy as that stupid lawn one.

Both just prove someone is doing something with too much grass.

We are not going out of business and guess what, if Joe's two man shipping company ships four packages this year but ships eight next year you can state his volume picked up by Fifty Percent in 2005 and he probably took that from us because fedex and dhl never lose any business.

What a bunch of crap.

While the competition is out there, as long as we take care of business we will be the ones to beat.

The bottom line is overworking the driver increases your profits (goodie for you)in the short run at the expense of any incentive for them to help increase, or even maintain the business (that would reflect possible ongoing long term results that will affect your profits).

Hate to be a downer for you, but your BD department is useless if you manage to ruin the workforce's positive attitude enough.

Ultimately, if the workforce gets too frustrated with the continued cutting of routes, upping of standards and hours it will begin to reflect where the customers can see it in their driver's public personas.

The public loves their drivers and that is your true BD department.

Cause that to change and we will both be collecting our pensions from the government bankruptcy agency.

For all the talk management throws at "increasing business" through sales leads, the service quality issue seems to have taken a back seat to the numbers and profit game.

It seems management's only concern is the "trackability" of missed packages rather than eliminating missed packages.

Regardless of how wrapped up management gets in the number's games (computers sure have made it a numbers heaven for this anal company

) if we don't take care of the existing customers we will never get enough replacement ones to stay in business.

 

[air_upser]

Susie, just to add to moreluck's stock discussion, if you compare UPS to the DOW average the last 5 years, we are up 20% versus 0% for the DOW. I mean I liked it much better at $89 a share, but we are doing a good job in getting the stock back up. Once the oil prices go down and the pilots sign a contract, we should see a good jump in stock price.
Another thing to keep in mind is the stock price pre-IPO was $25 a share ($50 and split). It IPOed at $50 and started trading at $60 I think. There were lots of millionaires made, and not only management by the way(how I wish I got MIP about 10 years sooner!). If we didn't have the IPO and the stock price was raised 15-20% per year, I don't think we would be at $70 today.

UPSdude, I think that is the exception. Far more companies are switching from DHL back to us because of our service. Is it perfect? Of course not. Is there room for improvement? Absolutely. I don't know what center you are in, but hopefully together you can fix the problems. I hear laughing, but it's a noble thought!

 

[upsdude]

air upser

I wish it were just my center, that would be an easy fix. This is a company wide problem that rests squarely on Mike Eskews shoulders. Read his bio at ups.com, the man never worked hourly during his career at UPS. Come on Mike, get your hands dirty. Shoot, Ill even buy your lunch. You dont mind eating late do you? LOL.

 

[longups]

All I hear on this line on this board is excuses. I don't care which side you're on, if volume doesn't grow your job is in line to be deleted. "It's not my job" doesn't do it for me. Anyone who is responsible in their company regardless of who you work for or what your position is is a SALESMAN. Sales leads bring jobs. Maybe not for you, but for the guy in the hub who is trying to support themselves, or for the driver who is trying to get hired.

Don't give me that stuff you have too much work and can't do one more pickup. If you REALLY have too much work, your supervisor will get that stop picked up.

And OK2BCLEVER, forgetting history is damming the future. You think UPS will be around for the rest of your life? No it wouldn't unless we all do our jobs. And that includes sales leads and delivering packages as they should be. Don't you remember way back to 2001 when ENRON was the bigest energy company in the world? Or Tyco, or MCI, or .......etc.

You all point to missed pieces. WELL...Tell the division manager about it if its a systemic problem, if that doesn't get the quality back write it up and send it to the district mgr, someone will loose their position. Failure to do this is failure to fulfill your fidutary responsibility.

I hate to be so blunt, but we're in a capitalistic society and that is how it works. If you don't do it right DHL (The Germans) will. They always do. Maybe not this year, but in 5 years they will. Then teamster jobs will be going, going, gone. We are a team, and if you think "them" at UPS make packages appear and you deliver them you're wrong. You are the "them", and you make packages appear for the guy in the center 500 miles away.
(Hmmm, I sound like a textbook for Mom and Applepie.)

 

[longups]

Opps, sorry to have missed one. Mike Eskew works harder then anyone I know (except me or course.) Just because he didn't start as an hourly guy doesn't mean he didn't earn his bars. He did.