Question about 22.3 Jobs

[Red Dawn]

.....and there are rumors of the company going on a "union busting" campaign in 2010? Doesn't look like the company will have to exert itself.

Looks like the union will bust itself.

yea that would explain this!
http://teamsterslocal767electiontra...-wesley-jenkins-to-stay-in-anti-union-hotels/

 

[boxjockey]

in my hub 22.3 jobs first goto any 22.3 person who bids then the drivers an finally the part timers. i believe it is just my local that allowed this. all this does is shuffle full time jobs. i believe this is not what the 22.3 jobs were set up for. 11 years part time means nothing towards a full time job inside the building. most of the 22.3 people give the company the upper hand by not working the full 8 hours a day. we need to get all 22.3 people to stand up an work their shifts so the company cant take away the 22.3 jobs that are out there away from us. there r more part time poeple working for ups then full time. we pay the same for union support an its not put there. are there other hubs that are seeing the same thing go on?

 

[UnconTROLLed]

in my hub 22.3 jobs first goto any 22.3 person who bids then the drivers an finally the part timers. i believe it is just my local that allowed this. all this does is shuffle full time jobs. i believe this is not what the 22.3 jobs were set up for. 11 years part time means nothing towards a full time job inside the building. most of the 22.3 people give the company the upper hand by not working the full 8 hours a day. we need to get all 22.3 people to stand up an work their shifts so the company cant take away the 22.3 jobs that are out there away from us. there r more part time poeple working for ups then full time. we pay the same for union support an its not put there. are there other hubs that are seeing the same thing go on?

I don't see it your way regarding working full 8 hour shifts.

The problem is, if EVERYONE were to work their guaranteed 8, then the jobs would be axed right away. IF employees work 7 hours or 7.5, this would at least make their numbers look better on paper (WHICH of course is what it all comes down to) and allow the continuance of 22.3 jobs without UPS considering making drastic cuts.

 

[trickpony1]

I don't see it your way regarding working full 8 hour shifts.

The problem is, if EVERYONE were to work their guaranteed 8, then the jobs would be axed right away. IF employees work 7 hours or 7.5, this would at least make their numbers look better on paper (WHICH of course is what it all comes down to) and allow the continuance of 22.3 jobs without UPS considering making drastic cuts.

It's my understanding that if you work less than 8 hours, even by .04 of an hour, your name appears on someone's report. If enough people's names show up on some report as having worked less than 8 hours then management is going to start scratching their heads wondering how to cut jobs.

That's just my understanding, I could be wrong

 

[gypsy mcgee]

nice

 

[22.34life]

I really believe that combo jobs are on there way out the door.All you have to do is look around and the writings on the wall.UPS never wanted these jobs in the first place,so to me the first time they can find a way to cut them why wouldnt they.We have always got the short end of the stick,the union has never really backed us and i dont expect them to now.

 

[22.34life]

I don't see it your way regarding working full 8 hour shifts.

The problem is, if EVERYONE were to work their guaranteed 8, then the jobs would be axed right away. IF employees work 7 hours or 7.5, this would at least make their numbers look better on paper (WHICH of course is what it all comes down to) and allow the continuance of 22.3 jobs without UPS considering making drastic cuts.

I disagree i think one of the big problems is combos not working their jobs the way they are bid.If your job is bid noonday hub/twilight carwash then thats what you should be working,not noonday hub then whatever else on twilight or working only half the job every day.By doing this ups can always say look this job isnt even worked,why keep it,at least thats how i see it.About nine months ago our b.a. was in the building talking about just that,combos not working their jobs as bid and also not taking a lunch.

 

[Red Dawn]

It's my understanding that if you work less than 8 hours, even by .04 of an hour, your name appears on someone's report. If enough people's names show up on some report as having worked less than 8 hours then management is going to start scratching their heads wondering how to cut jobs.

That's just my understanding, I could be wrong

I agree with you. You would think it would be better for the 22.3s to cut out as soon as they start cuting workers. But this seem to be the problem. Mgr don't want 22.3 because of the 8hr guarantee but when they try to go before the part timers they get mad and say no you have to stay!?! 22.3 can never win! I would think it would be better to keep the part timer if the full timer wants to go.

we need to all stick together and let our locals and national see that we are one.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I disagree i think one of the big problems is combos not working their jobs the way they are bid.If your job is bid noonday hub/twilight carwash then thats what you should be working,not noonday hub then whatever else on twilight or working only half the job every day.By doing this ups can always say look this job isnt even worked,why keep it,at least thats how i see it.About nine months ago our b.a. was in the building talking about just that,combos not working their jobs as bid and also not taking a lunch.

I have not worked my bid in 2 years. When confronting the union rep, overseeing all stewards, he told me "we are not discussing individual cases". Yet our contract language clearly states that we are to work our bid jobs over seniority, casual, new hires.

What is the point of bidding a job if I can't work it?

It has nothing to do with the company. It is the union selling people and the jobs out.

I do agree with you, but just pointing out the other side.

 

[22.34life]

I agree with you. You would think it would be better for the 22.3s to cut out as soon as they start cuting workers. But this seem to be the problem. Mgr don't want 22.3 because of the 8hr guarantee but when they try to go before the part timers they get mad and say no you have to stay!?! 22.3 can never win! I would think it would be better to keep the part timer if the full timer wants to go.

we need to all stick together and let our locals and national see that we are one.

This happens all the time they dont want you to get your 8 but they do,they want you to go home but they dont.Everything is always changing first you hear its this way then its another.It seems like every rule that has always applied now does not because your 22.3,its crazy!

 

[ItAintMe]

Not sure why the company would have to prove anything to lay you off. If they want to lay somebody off whether part time, combo, delivery etc. then that's what they will do. How many drivers working 9 hrs a day have been laid off? And from reading some post here it doesn't seem like the union is going to bat for us either.

 

[happy2be]

I have another question regarding 22.3's.... I am a p/timer with 21 yrs under my belt. Yes, I know... a long time.. Never wanted to go driving and that's all that is available @ my center. Until 22.3, or so I thought!!
My understanding of the proposed contract, oh so many years ago, was that it (22.3) was made so that p/t's could become friend/t's. Once it went into effect, both my union rep and my mgmt time said that... ready for this... It's for friend/t's to take, thereby opening up new driving positions. Part timers are not allowed to bid. Is this correct? or am I just being bullied, again, by everyone in charge?

 

[22.34life]

I have another question regarding 22.3's.... I am a p/timer with 21 yrs under my belt. Yes, I know... a long time.. Never wanted to go driving and that's all that is available @ my center. Until 22.3, or so I thought!!
My understanding of the proposed contract, oh so many years ago, was that it (22.3) was made so that p/t's could become friend/t's. Once it went into effect, both my union rep and my mgmt time said that... ready for this... It's for friend/t's to take, thereby opening up new driving positions. Part timers are not allowed to bid. Is this correct? or am I just being bullied, again, by everyone in charge?

This is a sticky one but at my hub this is how it works,a combo job is up for bid combos get first then drivers then part timers.These jobs were supposed to be for the parttimers but not anymore.It will vary by local though check with a stewart or buisness agent.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I have another question regarding 22.3's.... I am a p/timer with 21 yrs under my belt. Yes, I know... a long time.. Never wanted to go driving and that's all that is available @ my center. Until 22.3, or so I thought!!
My understanding of the proposed contract, oh so many years ago, was that it (22.3) was made so that p/t's could become friend/t's. Once it went into effect, both my union rep and my mgmt time said that... ready for this... It's for friend/t's to take, thereby opening up new driving positions. Part timers are not allowed to bid. Is this correct? or am I just being bullied, again, by everyone in charge?

In the buildings I have worked, and dealing with Local 25, you can only bid on NEWLY CREATED full-time jobs, as a part-time employee. Any existing job, 22.3 package feeder, can only be bid by part-timers.

Your supplement language is probably different than ours in New England, but it may contain something similar. Worth looking into, anyway.

Make sure that the jobs you are talking about are EXISTING jobs. If so, then it's probably done the right way.

 

[Red Dawn]

I have another question regarding 22.3's.... I am a p/timer with 21 yrs under my belt. Yes, I know... a long time.. Never wanted to go driving and that's all that is available @ my center. Until 22.3, or so I thought!!
My understanding of the proposed contract, oh so many years ago, was that it (22.3) was made so that p/t's could become friend/t's. Once it went into effect, both my union rep and my mgmt time said that... ready for this... It's for friend/t's to take, thereby opening up new driving positions. Part timers are not allowed to bid. Is this correct? or am I just being bullied, again, by everyone in charge?

down here it works like this..If open 22.3 job is open if new in a center the center full timers have first pick. IF new 22.3 job comes up then it's a hub bid and is open to all by senority. All full timers have first pick then part timers. They make the part timers sign up a bid list called "pool bid' It is for part timers that want to go full time and then they have to sign bid list for ft-job. They didn't tell anyone when they started the "pool bid list" and no one new details till later.

It's harder for part timers to go combo now because all the full time drivers are dropping out of package car soon as a 22.3 job comes open. Think this is another reason for mag. not to like 22.3's because how hard it is to replace the drivers.

 

[Breezer66]

I not sure whats going on by you guys and gals,but they are getting rid of 22.3 all over by us..Making excuses not to fill them...Union sits back and lets them..Something fishy going on....Havent seen 1 parttimer get layed off,instead ups is using them to replace the 22.3's by us...and again..Union just lets them..30 yrs guys 20yrs guys,here what our options was...Get laid off,work split shifts,sunrise/twilight,bump lowest sent.parttimer..We all work too long and hard to be a 20yr(22.3)NEW HIRE......Again Union does nothing?What did we all strike for?Make package driver rich?

 

[Babagounj]

Here's how its supposed to work, as decided by the lawsuit settlement in 1999....all new 22.3 jobs were to be offered to existing p/t employees first, during the annual ( now semi-annual ) bid process anyone could bid on them.
Should someone leave a 22.3 job, for whatever reason, after the bid then that open job shall be awarded to a qualified p/t.
Always check your local supplement when in doubt.

 

[Guy Smiley]

I not sure whats going on by you guys and gals,but they are getting rid of 22.3 all over by us..Making excuses not to fill them...Union sits back and lets them..Something fishy going on....Havent seen 1 parttimer get layed off,instead ups is using them to replace the 22.3's by us...and again..Union just lets them..30 yrs guys 20yrs guys,here what our options was...Get laid off,work split shifts,sunrise/twilight,bump lowest sent.parttimer..We all work too long and hard to be a 20yr(22.3)NEW HIRE......Again Union does nothing?What did we all strike for?Make package driver rich?

Our local bid has seen the loss of 15 22.3 jobs between the 08 and 10 bids. Here's a brief synopsis without getting into to much detail moreso for the purposes of length. Anytime a position is vacated for whatever the reason; corporate approves of its elimination. A list of eliminated jobs is then given to the national. The national does not give this list to the locals. The jobs were posted prior to the 02 contract. Under the '07 contract the numbers are currently reduced to an estimated 7-10,000 nationwide. It is important to remember that Hoffa came out publicly against the 22.3's during the 1997 strike and did not support or strike during the work stoppage. This stance led Yellow and UPS to fund his campaign for IBT president. You can see where this is going. 13 years later the cause-effect relationship (even though 22.3's were a cover for the pension) of the strike and the company going public in my mind gave ups 2 black eyes. One from labor and one from management.

I think more concerning is how ignorant the people who "struck" for these jobs are of their elimination. Most drivers I've come across don't even know what a 22.3 is. Also most 22.3's I've come across are totally useless. Either way few people I've come across 22.3, package, or feeders are even aware or care of 22.3 or full-time contract language thirteen years. Hence, the union is only as good as its membership. For example, you state split-shifts but it's against the contract to do split-shifts and only those who open the book know this. Furthermore, these 22.3 jobs are being made more undesirable do to the early morning hours and the inside-inside rates now.

 

[Breezer66]

I got bump from another 22.3 employee,he was from another hub,i have 20 yrs exp he had 11 yrs exp,just cause he had his 22.3 job before me,also came from a hub thats 3times the size of our hub..he wasnt qfy to do that job...Somehow union let them get away with it...All the years I have worked at ups,Company sentry ruled!Not anymore..Now i'm a20 yrs newhire..So all year I been covering vacation weeks too stay on the midnight shift,Now ups mang.say I cant do that.So this 20yr UPSer say watch out can happen to you next....I think Union become weak,and letting ups walk all over them....

 

[Breezer66]

Here's how its supposed to work, as decided by the lawsuit settlement in 1999....all new 22.3 jobs were to be offered to existing p/t employees first, during the annual ( now semi-annual ) bid process anyone could bid on them.
Should someone leave a 22.3 job, for whatever reason, after the bid then that open job shall be awarded to a qualified p/t.
Always check your local supplement when in doubt.

Not by us...We had few leave there 22.3 jobs...UPS said they wasnt filling them..Instead just lay people off,instead of filling postions,Again Union Has done nothing...