Questions for Mike.

[Sammie]

Those who complain about the eri are those who want the company to see an eri that is in the toilet. They don't believe the result of the eri because its not negative enough for them. The fact is most upsers come to work positive and they will answer most of the two hundred questions positively.

Mister Tie,

Tsk, Tsk,... I do respect the majority of your posts....

But as far as this ERI issue, let's venture back to the 1990's TV show Upstairs, Downstairs... Please try to identify with it in this case....

You're upstairs, and the vast majority remain downstairs....

And trust me, none of us wants to see an "ERI in the toilet."

That's just plain insulting and absurd...

Maybe we're all wrong, here. Just perhaps, you may not be the manager who has the audacity to coach his employees on how to fill this survey out in the first place.

And you may not be the manager who greets his employees in a civilized manner, acting as a friendly human being for one day each year, and that being the day of the ERI.

These are hard facts that this family alone can attest to.

Yes, UPS employees definitely bring a positive attitude to work each and every day because among their pride, strength and resolve, they maintain these standards as their managers come and go.

IMHO, this ERI shenanigans came way too late with too many employees on board who refuse be hornswaggled...

 

[tieguy]

Mister Tie,

Tsk, Tsk,... I do respect the majority of your posts....

But as far as this ERI issue, let's venture back to the 1990's TV show Upstairs, Downstairs... Please try to identify with it in this case....

You're upstairs, and the vast majority remain downstairs....

And trust me, none of us wants to see an "ERI in the toilet."

That's just plain insulting and absurd...

Maybe we're all wrong, here. Just perhaps, you may not be the manager who has the audacity to coach his employees on how to fill this survey out in the first place.

And you may not be the manager who greets his employees in a civilized manner, acting as a friendly human being for one day each year, and that being the day of the ERI.

These are hard facts that this family alone can attest to.

Yes, UPS employees definitely bring a positive attitude to work each and every day because among their pride, strength and resolve, they maintain these standards as their managers come and go.

IMHO, this ERI shenanigans came way too late with too many employees on board who refuse be hornswaggled...

why sammie dearest. I don't mind a debate on what makes the ERI better. My debate is on what exactly would a third party do to make it better. The manager that performs the above shennanigans will continue to do so regardless of who administers the ERI. The ERI good or bad could hardly be described as putting ones head in the sand with close to 200 questions now on it asking you everything under the sun related to the job.

So am I defending the ERI as perfection? Absolutely not. Would I challenge Icon to give us specifics on what might make it better . You bet ya!

 

[constructively dissatisfi]

I don't see how putting out a 200 question ERI that covers every gamut of the job is exactly sticking your head in the sand.

Again you speak in parables and again you supply prose filled with rhetoric. Boiled frog at least supplys a couple of points on items he feels needs to be added to the survey.

Characterizing the survey as unprofessional is illogical. If the third party administers it the same electronic way without any human interaction then their result would be the same.

You have now posted about 1000 words on this subject without identifying any tangible changes you feel need to be done other then to assume it would somehow be better if someone else did it.

Tie, here are your suggested improvements:
1. Forget the notion that the questions have to be the same every year. They don't. The issues that affect job satisfaction change over time. The way to do this is to conduct REAL focus groups to determine what issues should be covered. I DO NOT mean UPS type focus groups. I mean professionally run focus groups.
2. Weight the questions based on importance. The current ERI give the same weight to lame, incomprehensible questions such as "I have the information I need to do a good job" or whatever as it does to the really important questions that influence people's job satsifactions.
3. Take MEANINGFUL action on the results. This doesn't mean beat people up over bad scores. It means UNDERSTAND what drove the bad scores and FIX IT.

 

[tieguy]

1. Forget the notion that the questions have to be the same every year. They don't. The issues that affect job satisfaction change over time. The way to do this is to conduct REAL focus groups to determine what issues should be covered. I DO NOT mean UPS type focus groups. I mean professionally run focus groups.
2. Weight the questions based on importance. The current ERI give the same weight to lame, incomprehensible questions such as "I have the information I need to do a good job" or whatever as it does to the really important questions that influence people's job satsifactions.
3. Take MEANINGFUL action on the results. This doesn't mean beat people up over bad scores. It means UNDERSTAND what drove the bad scores and FIX IT.

not sure frog. Not sure how you measure improvement if you keep changing the wieght of the questions and the questions theirselves.

I could see us changing the questions and then seeing those who thought the scores should have been lower blaming the changes. Much as those who wish to see a lower score now challenge the validity of this version of the eri.

the eri has become another weapon in employee relations. Managers may try to coach a score or result from sammies perspective at the same time there are employees out there trying to do the same thing from their end. I've seen scenarios where shop stewards tell everyone to vote negatively on an eri. So while we seek an honest answer and I'm sure the staticians who administer it do their job the eri itself has become a political tool of sorts.

Its funny i hear all the stories here about management fanagling the eri but I never hear about employees doing so to get a negative score. Yet I'm sure it goes on?

 

[brown and down]

Hey Mike, When I go to the 100 year celebration road show can I have an extra hot dog coupon. Everyone do yourselves a favor and don't go when it comes to your area. Let the sups and managers go they probably have no choice anyway........................At least us teamsters still can say no once in a while!

 

[Sammie]

the eri has become another weapon in employee relations. Managers may try to coach a score or result from sammies perspective at the same time there are employees out there trying to do the same thing from their end. I've seen scenarios where shop stewards tell everyone to vote negatively on an eri. So while we seek an honest answer and I'm sure the staticians who administer it do their job the eri itself has become a political tool of sorts.

Its funny i hear all the stories here about management fanagling the eri but I never hear about employees doing so to get a negative score. Yet I'm sure it goes on?

There you go. That sums it up in a nutshell, Tie.

And as far as this "third party administrating" business, haven't we just about outsourced and third partied ourselves to death in this company already??

The plastic, pasted on smiles and the coercing at one end of the ERI spectrum to the employees who use it as a private revenge on the other end? Heck yes! You bet! No one will deny it!

Which brings me to this; nobody, at least the worker bees, takes this thing seriously. My feelings on it; due to the number of employees we have today, the one on one TLA is now impossible. And, this ERI replaced the TLA. For you newer folks, a TLA was when your sup or mgr sat down with you once a year over coffee and you led the discussion. You voiced the good, the bad and the ugly. And if you felt uncomfortable with your mgmt team, you had your chat with someone else.

Now here's what's amazing. ERI time comes around now and it's a joke. Most people would rather have a toe amputated. But in the old days when your yearly TLA was due, there wasn't this resistance. Nobody minded.

The concept and the pressures of the current ERI are counter productive. If this company wants accurate employee feed back, they need to find another way to get it and they should also take the pressure off of management for the results.

It would obviously have to be another type of computer generated program, something where the employee could voice their own, original concerns and satisfactions rather than this SAT, ACT college exam format that is too stiff, formal and cold to provide accurate employee feed back.

This company doesn't hesitate to update, change and enhance everything else in it's path, so why not this?

The Edsel and the ERI have two things in common, both started out as big hits but became classic flops.

 

[Iconoclast]

Tieguy - I don't see how putting out a 200 question ERI that covers every gamut of the job is exactly sticking your head in the sand.

Putting the ERI out is certainly not sticking your head in the sand, no, I agree. Intimating that the ERI in its present state in just fine - save for those who answer the questions negatively, is, in my opinion sticking your head in the sand. Let' review your words for edification and reinforcement.

Tieguy - Those who complain about the eri are those who want the company to see an eri that is in the toilet. They don't believe the result of the eri because its not negative enough for them. The fact is most upsers come to work positive and they will answer most of the two hundred questions positively.


Again you speak in parables and again you supply prose filled with rhetoric. Boiled frog at least supplys a couple of points on items he feels needs to be added to the survey.

You should try it. I have worked very hard on my ability to communicate, and it has been a tremnedous help to me in business. I find that it is far more effective than calling people names or insulting them.

Characterizing the survey as unprofessional is illogical. If the third party administers it the same electronic way without any human interaction then their result would be the same.

Why on earth would a third party administer it in the same way? You are missing the point Tie, Administering the ERI goes far beyond just how the data is electronically captured-it entails organizing sufficient time to take it, convenient times for work groups to overlap, making sure there is full participation, having a dedicated controlled area to take it in-all of the things that have been discussed in this thread and other ERI threads. All of the things that make the ERI in its present state so unprofessional


You have now posted about 1000 words on this subject without identifying any tangible changes you feel need to be done other then to assume it would somehow be better if someone else did it.


Just because you have chosen to ignore that I have given concrete examples of how detailed the feedback information is - and how valuable information of that ilk can be to the employees and management team, doesn't mean that those companies don't have the ability to do just that, or that other people have not been able to read what I wrote. Go back to my posts, it's all right there.

I have identified changes specific to the feedback information, identified dynamics specific to objectivity, and specific to a much more comprehensive and professional delivery of an Employee Relation Index.

Feel free to read my prior postings again Tie, I often re-read prior messages before and after I post, it often helps with perspective.

 

[ihadit]

Hey Mike, When I go to the 100 year celebration road show can I have an extra hot dog coupon. Everyone do yourselves a favor and don't go when it comes to your area. Let the sups and managers go they probably have no choice anyway........................At least us teamsters still can say no once in a while!

Our 'celebration' was this past saturday in the nassau bldg. Very poor attendance except for the 'voluntary' management and their alloted friends. Mike how about showing up unanounced someday at a building or event and see what really goes on. Maybe then the company can start turning around!

 

[SmithBarney]

unfortunately the 75-80% of the ERI questions have nothing to
do with "employee relations" with management, Most have to do
with "employee relations" with the mechanics, other drivers,
equipment, money, retirement, equipment issues..

I think I remember maybe 15 questions that were specific towards
management relations. and then of course the enter your own comments section...
Funny thing is management got a 85% on the ERI, and were proud
that they had 100% participation, except for the fact that drivers
I spoke to later didn't even get a chance to take it... hrmmm who's
filling these raving reviews out?

 

[Cole]

I for one would like to know why, in the year 2007, we are still putting some of the equipment on the road that we do. Don't get me wrong, I'll drive anything UPS gives me and I'll get the job done. But give me a break. We are supposed to be the leaders in our industry. When I'm driving a package car numbered 7**** (5 digits mind you) that backfires, I find this a little embarrassing. We just ordered 27 (correct me if I'm wrong) new Boeing 767 jets. Can we get a little of that cash to bring some new cars into the operation? Just wondering....

Tell me about it! Mainly because you wouldn't want some manager sitting in climate controlled offices to be short on a bonus! All the high tech these days, but most trucks have no power steering, or little if any ventilation in the backs, narrow doors etc...They sure do paint up well though.

 

[tieguy]

You should try it. I have worked very hard on my ability to communicate, and it has been a tremnedous help to me in business. I find that it is far more effective than calling people names or insulting them.

And again you fail to provide any specifics.


Why on earth would a third party administer it in the same way? You are missing the point Tie, Administering the ERI goes far beyond just how the data is electronically captured-it entails organizing sufficient time to take it, convenient times for work groups to overlap, making sure there is full participation, having a dedicated controlled area to take it in-all of the things that have been discussed in this thread and other ERI threads. All of the things that make the ERI in its present state so unprofessional

Could you possibly let me know your qualifications as an eri administrator. I'm just curious if it compares to those who actually do organize and collect the information.


Just because you have chosen to ignore that I have given concrete examples of how detailed the feedback information is - and how valuable information of that ilk can be to the employees and management team, doesn't mean that those companies don't have the ability to do just that, or that other people have not been able to read what I wrote. Go back to my posts, it's all right there.

Read boiled frogs comments and see if you can become concrete per his example. Your concrete is a little soft.

I have identified changes specific to the feedback information, identified dynamics specific to objectivity, and specific to a much more comprehensive and professional delivery of an Employee Relation Index.

Feel free to read my prior postings again Tie, I often re-read prior messages before and after I post, it often helps with perspective.

Again feel free to specify your dynamics. And think about this for one moment. There may actually be some corporate folks that do administer the ERI watching.

 

[tieguy]

Tell me about it! Mainly because you wouldn't want some manager sitting in climate controlled offices to be short on a bonus! All the high tech these days, but most trucks have no power steering, or little if any ventilation in the backs, narrow doors etc...They sure do paint up well though.

shame they are not doing more on the package side. They have buying tractors on the feeder side Like someone had a fire sale.

 

[tieguy]

Again feel free to specify your dynamics. And think about this for one moment. There may actually be some corporate folks that do administer the ERI watching.

and before you answer this question I'll give you a clue as to the direction I'm headed.

this is a public forum. Lets pretend for just a moment if you will that those folks responsible for the eri process have actually been reading our little exchange on this message board.

Lets pretend that one or more of these people have actually been having a sidebar with me while we have had our little exchange where you give me all this vague dialogue on how to fix the eri simply by employing a third party.

and lets pretend that this person or these persons are actually as close as you can get to a third party without quite being so.

and lets also pretend that these people are not only well qualified for thier position but they are probably smarter then you and I combined.

With that in mind be so kind as to give us some very detailed dialogue on how you would fix the eri . Not a bunch of mumbo jumbo on how having a third party administer already makes it better but really dig down and give us some real detail on how you specifically think your version of a third party could fix what has basically been designed and managed by third parties who have very little if any bias in the process.

think about it Icon. reign in your natural tendency to provide me with a windy post that says nothing and really give me some minute details on how your version of the ERI will be so much better then these people who are either PHD level or near PHD level in their expertise on this subject.

I beg you and eagerly await your well thought out response.

 

[tieguy]

Again feel free to specify your dynamics. And think about this for one moment. There may actually be some corporate folks that do administer the ERI watching.

Icon how ya making out with your ERI Brief?

 

[Iconoclast]

Hold your horses Tie, I too have been contacted by someone close to the ERI regarding this thread. You can't always assume that when someone from corporate is monitoring this forum (which they do from time to time) that they don't engage more than one person regarding a subject. I am having dialouge with her and Cheryl, and I hope to get some clearance from her to post our exchanges for all the forum to read.

There is nothing sensitive in our exchange, but they are private, and they were initiated that way by her and that carries it's own connotations.

Cheryl has given her blessing, but I am awaiting word from the other party.

Patience Tie, Patience.

 

[Rookie Sup]

I have to agree with those posts about moral and allowing the centers run themselves. I am in my 3rd year as an on-road sup. I was hired in as a part-time sup, so no, I was never a teamster. I have seen the cycles this company goes in and this one I hope ends soon. I came in at the end of Jim Kelly's career and remember the days of the operations being allowed to make the decisions required to get the job done and take care of their people. It disgusts me that my hands are tied in so many aspects of my job. My employees know that most of the demands and constraints being laid on the center are coming from much higher up, but I'm the one who has to pay the consequences of the negative atmosphere and being unable to answer the question of "why are they doing this to us?" That doesn't mean that I feel everyone should just run amuk and no one should be held accountable for their job, but I would like to be able to make the decision that I need another route to control hours and make service without worrying if I'm going to miss my stops per car by .5.

I think that Mr. Casey is probably turning over in his grave and has been for the past 3 or 4 years. Abuse is getting heaped on to management as well as the hourlies. "Work-life balance" has been a hot topic for a long time now, however at every mention of it, my work day just seems to get longer. Every effort I make to control it myself gets shot down by my superiors.

So my question to Mr. Eskew is why don't you just resign? If you truly care about this company, leave. Turn it over to someone who knows how to be an operater and make the machinery of this company run. I realize that we are much more than a small package delivery company any more, but the core business of UPS is small packages. If Mr. Eskew keeps hanging in there, that core is going to disolve and take everything else with it. He is not alone in the destruction of the company, but he is at the helm.

 

[Iconoclast]

Tie,

In the interim-here is a link to a global third party provider of services just like our ERI. You have been constant in your requests of how a third party vendor would differ from our ERI; take a long look at their site. It has a lot of good information on what their capabilities are with respect to employee surveys. Also, check out their client list. Their are several very large corporations listed that have tens of thousands of employees. They have been in business for 30 years and they have a very good track record.

http://www.isrinsight.com/default.aspx

Again, Tie- pay special attention to the areas of reporting, and look at the detail and specifics that they can supply. There are on-line demos of their products - so you can see what we have been discussing with respect to the capabilities of an outside vendor. You have reiterated over and over that you don't see how a third party would produce anything different than what we have now:


TG -Characterizing the survey as unprofessional is illogical. If the third party administers it the same electronic way without any human interaction then their result would be the same.


TG -You have now posted about 1000 words on this subject without identifying any tangible changes you feel need to be done other then to assume it would somehow be better if someone else did it.


TG -So am I defending the ERI as perfection? Absolutely not. Would I challenge Icon to give us specifics on what might make it better . You bet ya

Here is your chance firsthand - to discover exactly what those different capabilities are and how they differ significantly from the product that UPS puts out every year, and perhaps more importantly, to reinforce what Sammie has already so correctly stated in an earlier post -

Sammie - The concept and the pressures of the current ERI are counter productive. If this company wants accurate employee feed back, they need to find another way to get it and they should also take the pressure off of management for the results.

Again Tie, its not just the capabilities that a third party vendor posesses that's important-it's why a revamped, fresh approach to the ERI is so crucial to providing proper feedback to the organization.

I am still awaiting an answer about the private dialogue I had after I was contacted about the ERI. As soon as I hear something I hope to post the full exchange that we had regarding the ERI-it really is germane to the discussions that we have been having recently on this topic.

Tie, maybe you can post your sidebar discussion as well, I think our having been contacted about this would be interesting reading for all.

 

[tieguy]

Hold your horses Tie, I too have been contacted by someone close to the ERI regarding this thread. You can't always assume that when someone from corporate is monitoring this forum (which they do from time to time) that they don't engage more than one person regarding a subject. I am having dialouge with her and Cheryl, and I hope to get some clearance from her to post our exchanges for all the forum to read.

There is nothing sensitive in our exchange, but they are private, and they were initiated that way by her and that carries it's own connotations.

Cheryl has given her blessing, but I am awaiting word from the other party.

Patience Tie, Patience.

Not sure why you need to post someone elses words to offer me your concrete detailed solutions to fixing the ERI. If you don't have anything just say so.

 

[Iconoclast]

Tieguy - Not sure why you need to post someone elses words to offer me your concrete detailed solutions to fixing the ERI. If you don't have anything just say so.

I don't have any concrete solutions, I never said that I did. I merely opined that there are certainly very good third party providers out there that have excellent solutions that might work for UPS. I stated what some of those solutions were, provided some concrete examples of the capabilities of the providers and even provided a link for folks to check those providers out themselves.

The discussions that you and I (and maybe some others) had with someone in UPS who is close to the current ERI are definitely germane to this thread, and I think that dialogue that we shared with that person or persons (should they be different) would provide some very good insight for the entire community about how the ERI works, why it is perceived the way it is, and how it may be improved.

The ERI in its current state is a very hot topic whenever it is broached on these boards, and besides, only a few short days ago you were very, very interested in what I had to say on the subject- in the absence of a next day response from me, you even posted a message asking how I was coming along with my ERI brief. So I can only surmise you are ready to further this discussion.

I also think it would be entertaining for this forum to read messages from both of us to someone from corporate that were initially private, and then opened up for the rest of the forum to see. After all, we do share very opposing views on almost all subjects, and as Channahon alluded to in the 'Does Tieguy Flame Post' - it is the beauty of these boards to have such diametrically opposing personalities and opinions. it makes for good copy.

Here is what I did to facilitate that, I sent a message to the person that I had the sidebar with asking her if she would agree to allow our discussions to be posted in this thread, you should follow suit Tie, again I think it would be very enlightening for this discussion.

 

[Iconoclast]

I am still waiting on a reply from our private message friend(s) Tie. I sent another message today. I must say though - for someone who was begging for a reply from me on this thread, you have grown unusually silent regarding this topic.

Maybe what we can do in the absence of a reply from corporate (plan B) is just generalize the content of the messages we received and post our replies. That would at least give everyone a chance to see what it was that we were contacted about, a little insight on how UPS conducts / feels about the ERI, and a chance to see how we replied to such an unusual request. It would also allow us to remain discreet as we were contacted privately.

I'll give it a few more days, but what are your thoughts on plan B Tie?