refuse to sign?

[plisken]

Busted!
Damn, that's kinda creepy!
I'd run and hide RJ. Someones going to knock on your office door (if you're in an office) and wan't you to sign something.
RTS!
}

 

[ok2bclever]

deliver man,

Exactly what I was getting at. One supplemental negotiated a stupid clause and then tried to water it down, but it ain't the rule at UPS, just the exception.

You don't have to sign anything not required by law in the Central Supplement, nor in most UPS locations.

And I believe you are missing the point regarding jr and Susie's noticing they are posting from work.

It was important enough that someone on this board sent all my postings to my local management as a cheap shot trying to get me fired thinking because of the errant time keeping ability of this board that I was posting from work.

Unfortunately for them I am more ethical than playing on a board for my own amusement on company time.

So I am still here.

JR appears to be management to me.

 

[deliver_man]

Susie-
Very impressive that you are able to run an IP trace and paste the results into your reply. I'm sure RJ is terrified. Look, if you are determined to continue with the "angry shareholder investigating thievery" routine, be my guest, but I'm not sure what you think you are going to accomplish.

ok2bclever- Why do you think it is a stupid clause? Personally I have no opinion on it either way, I have always viewed signing a form simply as an acknowledgement that I have read it. Got me to thinking though, when you get a speeding ticket (I have), the police officer is always careful to inform you that signing the ticket is not an admission of guilt, just an acknowledgement of your court date. Can you refuse to sign it without consequence? I honestly don't know. UPS has never asked me to sign a form specifically admitting guilt in some matter (I would refuse to sign such a form), and I have never heard of them asking anyone else to sign a form like that either.

 

[deliver_man]

<font color="ff0000">deliver_man, susiedriver burned you bad.How red is your face now? Yikes you must feel like a fool. </font><font color="000000">
I'm guessing this is sarcasm? Or are you really clueless? Just in case it's option 2, let me clear it up for ya. Running an IP trace is a piece of cake, there is plenty of free software available and anyone can do it. For instance, here is yours:
<font color="0000ff">Host : 68.187.85.238
Result : Succeeded
Country : United States
Code : US
State (US only) : MO Missouri
Entries : 0
IP Address : 68.187.85.238
Host Name : c68.187.85.238.eau.wi.charter.com

----------------- Info --------------

OrgName: Charter Communications
OrgID: CC04
Address: 12405 Powerscourt Dr.
City: St. Louis</font></font>

Notice how does it doesn't tell me what your name is, or what you do for a living? It's a cheap parlor trick that never fails to impress the internet "rubes". Good thing you're smarter than that

.

(Message edited by deliver_man on April 22, 2005)

 

[susiedriver]

deliver_man

It seems as though you just dont get it. Let me try to break it down for you.

A UPS employee posting from work is stealing both time and bandwidth, or is getting paid to post. Can you think of any other explanation?

Accountability is one of the key principles at UPS. Everyone is held responsible for their duties. If you, as a driver, decided to go fishing for a couple of hours while getting paid at work, you would and should be dismissed. Why is it different for a manager? Is goofing off on the clock accepted as a normal business practice for supervisory personnel at UPS?

A competent IT person should be able to identify exactly who was using that IP address on that day, and that person should be disciplined. Its no different than a driver siphoning fuel from their UPS truck to use in their personal vehicle.

Do you understand any of this?

As far as signing UPS forms, I can think of many times that drivers have had a form that they signed years ago thrown back in their faces, and discipline resulting from it. Driver release training is one that comes to mind, as well as safe driving techniques. In my years as a Union Steward I can recall numerous occasions where this has happened.

Dont sign, but accept instruction.

Enjoy your day off (youre not posting while you are being paid to work are you?).

Peace,

Susie

 

[revenuerecovery]

Why are you giving him such a hard time about his internet use at work? Did you even ask if he was posting during break or before or after work? And FT management doesn't get paid by the hour like drivers. They gotta get the job done (which usually takes 10-13 hours). I assert however that personal internet use by management should be absolutely minimal, but it is not unreasonable to occasionnally be on the net.

As for RTS (not RETURN TO SHIPPER), the outcomes will be the same regardless of signiture or no signiture. IMO, it's petty not to sign. I still don't understand why people refuse to sign.

(Message edited by revenuerecovery on April 22, 2005)

 

[ok2bclever]

deliver man,

Yes, I think it is an unwise and unnecessary clause.

The rest of the UPS/Teamster contracts not having it seems to attest to that.

That you had someone fired over it and after the greivance procedure it was reduced to ten days loss of pay (something over 2 grand loss) kind of backs it up also as he would neither have been fired or lost any time if not for that clause.

For instance, (and this is paranoid, but somewhere probably has been pulled), what keeps them from adding something to any page you have signed and then nailing you on it.

Yep, you are not admitting you agree with whatever you sign, but you have agreed you have read it and understood it.

Just like the grievance form I would not sign anything that did not give me an original copy that I would be able to use to show changes on it that were done without my knowledge.

As far as the cop scenario, that's law.

I said you don't have to sign anything unless it's manditory by law.

A cop, etc is part of that law thing.

 

[deliver_man]

Actually, Susie, it seems that "you" just don't get it. As RR rightly points out, management are on salary, they get paid the same whether they are at the facility for 8 hours or 12 hours. Accusing them of "stealing time" is just silly. And stealing bandwidth? Do you really think that UPS pays for bandwidth on a floating scale? But that's not the issue here, the issue is you trying to be some sort on "message board bully" by making empty threats against people you don't agree with. It's pathetic, and no better than than the losers who tried to get ok2bclever fired by forwarding his message board postings to his boss. As far as being diciplined because of signing a piece of paper acknowledging training, do you really think that if you refuse to sign that UPS will not be able to dicipline you for failing to follow procedures? If that's your idea of a credible defense, I'm glad you're not my shop steward.
And yes, I am enjoying my day off, not posting from the laptop in my truck during my paid break....

(Message edited by deliver_man on April 22, 2005)

 

[ok2bclever]

You are right you obviously do not know or understand UPS's connection to the internet.

That is understandable as a driver has no need of being aware of the set up or internet policies UPS has, but they are certainly there just like with every other thing UPS is involved in and just as anal and rigid and you can be fired for violating them just like any one of the many rules you best not get caught violating as a driver.

UPS is not exactly Pentagon level in their security or secrecy, so someone with a little knowledge and no ethics can easily defeat the little roadblocks that UPS sets up to stop public internet access.

As a clerk that works without supervision 100 percent of the time I could easily do so if I was willing to violate company internet policies and general work ethics.

About as easy as stealing is from UPS with the same ultimate results.

Getting caught and then either fired or fired and prosecuted.

I was not exaggerating and wasn't approached by a lowly manager.

As steward I am held to a higher level of accountability.

I was approached by security and labor with a log of every posting (the chicken sht on this board who did this is obviously very anal and it cost him a lot of ink unless he was doing it from work

) I had made for the last several months from the point late last year when this happened.

Of course, as I don't say anything here I wouldn't and don't say in person and the fact that it is/was easy for UPS to check the local computers and server to see if I had been violating UPS's firewall security, when, where and how, it came to nothing as I was innocent.

You are still really missing the point, Susie didn't have to run a trace to know it was a UPS IP address, no need for any "cheap" parlor tricks of running a trace program as that is a fixed IP address.

I am sure her purpose here, just a bit tongue in cheek, was to let as you put it you internet rubes and those that just don't necessarily pick up on the details that this was either management monitoring the board and throwing in their two cents or a stupid employee thinking being unregistered is some sort of safeguard from being caught.

 

[ok2bclever]

deliver man, no, I continually tell the hourly that not signing the form will not protect them from screwing up, doing wrong or purposefully violating UPS policies.

Refusing to sign may keep an unethical manager from causing you some trouble though.

 

[susiedriver]

d_m,
bug in your butt?

I certainly don't recall threatening anyone. At any rate, I'm in no position to threaten or be a threat to anyone.

I did request an explanation. As an owner, I feel that is within reason. I'm pretty sure that posting anything outside the UPS intraweb while using a UPS network would be frowned upon, and is most likely specifically forbidden. It is in most large corporations.

I don't feel that you have any reason to start name calling.

Sign anything you want at UPS. It's your job.

 

[deliver_man]

Ok,
The bit about being diciplined for signing was directed at Susie, not you, in response to this:
<font color="ff0000">As far as signing UPS forms, I can think of many times that drivers have had a form that they signed years ago thrown back in their faces, and discipline resulting from it. Driver release training is one that comes to mind, as well as safe driving techniques. In my years as a Union Steward I can recall numerous occasions where this has happened. </font><font color="000000">
And yes, I understand corporate IT well enough to know that someone who wants to can always circumvent roadblocks and safeguards. But just as LP discovered in your case, I doubt that someone would go to the trouble just so they post on the Brown Cafe from work. Now porn and Quake3, on the other hand...</font>

 

[deliver_man]

<font color="ff0000">d_m,
bug in your butt? </font><font color="000000">
nope, just killing some free time

</font>
<font color="ff0000">I certainly don't recall threatening anyone. </font><font color="000000">
Really? This sounds vaguely threatening to me:</font>
<font color="ff0000">A competent IT person should be able to identify exactly who was using that IP address on that day, and that person should be disciplined. </font>
However, as you say:
<font color="ff0000">At any rate, I'm in no position to threaten or be a threat to anyone. </font>
<font color="000000">Which was my point exactly.
<font color="ff0000">Sign anything you want at UPS. It's your job.</font>
Well thanks for the advice, shop steward. I think I will

</font>

(Message edited by deliver_man on April 22, 2005)

 

[susiedriver]

d_m,

Since I'm not an IT person or manager at UPS, that can hardly be construed as a threat.

BTW-- It's former shop steward. I'm no longer employed at UPS (my choice).

 

[deliver_man]

<font color="ff0000">BTW-- It's former shop steward. I'm no longer employed at UPS (my choice). </font>
Good for you, and I mean that sincerely. I have yet to meet a former employee (and I know quite a few) who wasn't happier for leaving. Makes me wonder about this place sometimes.

 

[ok2bclever]

Oddly enough I have found that true regardless of the reason, quit, fired or retired, hourly or management.

Does make one wonder why we stay.

 

[over9five]

"Does make one wonder why we stay"

Its because most UPSers mistakenly believe that they can never make this much money anywhere else. Its not true. It may take you a couple of years to get to this pay again, but it can be done.
The rest of us are too old and lazy to switch jobs!

Oh yeah, I agree with Susie. I want to know why a UPSer is posting from work. I don't believe someones doing it on their break. I don't use my package car to run personal errands, so they shouldn't be using a UPS computer for personal use.

 

[susiedriver]

fellas,

There truly is life after UPS, and it seems to be a better life (so far).

No, the money isn't as good (yet), but I have my life back.

If everyone you know who leaves UPS is better off, why in the world do you stay?

And no one should be posting from a work computer, unless they are being paid to do so as part of their job.

 

[toonertoo]

At our building they cant even get on the internet, but when you are on salary, you can do as you please on your laptop, even if UPS pays for it. Although management is required to put in tons of hours as well as other staff, they do have downtime, and I can honestly say I have never seen one playing video games, or solitaire as I see at many businesses, so give it a break and quit being so judgemental of everyone who posts and where. If you are retired and have nothing better to do than track people who post maybe you need to get another job as you must not be having much fun, or work for the FBI. Oh wait never mind if you are retired you are too old.

 

[susiedriver]

tooner,

You sound like another unhappy UPSer. Aren't you being a bit judgemental?

I'll make a deal with you...you don't tell me what to do and I won't tell you.