Religion

[baklava]

You've just given me a great idea. I can take my entire family and go through a couple of neighborhoods a day spreading the word of agnosticism. We'll start at 0500 so people will be full of energy and understanding! We'll ride bicycles and wear white shirts and plastic name plates. Thank you!

Great idea!

 

[baklava]

so when you asked your agnostic parents if there was a god what did they tell their six year old child?

I specifically remember this actually. I asked my mom if God was real and she said "nobody knows for sure"...my dad would have just told me to ask my mom.

 

[newfie]

I don't know any atheists that show up to your door on weekend mornings wanting to discuss anti-religion.

.

I have Christian friends and atheists friends on facebook. the Christians may occasionally post how they are grateful for all their blessings and thank god.

the atheists will post every smear of religion they can find.
those same atheists would be highly offended if I posted anything denigrating any 'protected' group in society but see nothing wrong with their attacks on religion.

 

[baklava]

I have Christian friends and atheists friends on facebook. the Christians may occasionally post how they are grateful for all their blessings and thank god.

the atheists will post every smear of religion they can find.
those same atheists would be highly offended if I posted anything denigrating any 'protected' group in society but see nothing wrong with their attacks on religion.

Well, the good news for you is that your atheist friends and I will be burning in hell someday.

 

[newfie]

Well, the good news for you is that your atheist friends and I will be burning in hell someday.

why would that be good news

 

[baklava]

why would that be good news

Because it's what we deserve as sinners. You don't think so?

 

[newfie]

Because it's what we deserve as sinners. You don't think so?

no I think some people have an easier path then others under that philosophy, I think God has a plan for everyone who wants that option.

 

[wkmac]

I want it to be gone from this planet, along with Christianity and every other destructive and idiotic organized religion. Baffles me how grown adults much older than me believe in that nonsense. I realized God was a sham when I was 6.

IMO, it will never go away at least not in our lifetimes. Man is hardwired to such beliefs and those connections built over the eons are strong. For some, very strong. God in the western monotheism sense has always changed as man changed. The early OT god Elohim (as opposed to the later Yahweh) was a plurality of gods, polytheism if you will and god would directly commune with man, whether walking with Adam in the garden, eating a meal with Abraham and Sarah telling the barren Sarah she would be with child or wrestling with Jacob.

After Egypt, that god changed, you can no longer know my name and none are worthy to be in my presence. A new class of intercessor priests will speak for you and on your behalf to god. God also becomes a war god and the name Yahweh Sabaoth, God of the Armies or Israel's war god not unlike the greek war god Ares or the Roman war god Mars leads the Israelites into battles. But after the Babylonian and Persian period (7th-6th century BCE) god changed again and the temple period and priestly class took shape as well as monotheism became dominate.

Then came mighty Rome and the desire of a return to the idyllic Davidic period (Judah's version of the Platonic Golden Age of Saturn) and thus such return would need a Davidic King, a messiah to lead the people back into the great Kingdom age they long sought. Thus god from our western tradition changed again into Jesus with his message of love, peace and perfection taking man into that Kingdom of Heaven ideal, back to the future in the new Saturnian Age of the New s̶u̶n̶ Son. Just as Saturn displaced his father so to was Saturn displaced by his son. Very popular motif.

I suspect people will only discard the 2k and 3k year old Middle East desert ideas of god, heavily borrowed in the first place from Egyptian, Greek and Mesopotamian traditions and just re-brand the concept with something else of more modern extractions. Quantum Physics for example may play a role in creating new conclusions.

Part of the Christian reaction of the War on Christians as well as the Islamic War on Islam and even Judaism with their own persecution complex is that all 3 are feeling the pressures that their idea of god is slipping away and they would be right. What takes it's place over the next few centuries, we just don't know yet but expect the next couple of decades to be traumatic as these past dominate faiths continue to collapse in upon themselves.

 

[baklava]

IMO, it will never go away at least not in our lifetimes. Man is hardwired to such beliefs and those connections built over the eons are strong. For some, very strong. God in the western monotheism sense has always changed as man changed. The early OT god Elohim (as opposed to the later Yahweh) was a plurality of gods, polytheism if you will and god would directly commune with man, whether walking with Adam in the garden, eating a meal with Abraham and Sarah telling the barren Sarah she would be with child or wrestling with Jacob.

After Egypt, that god changed, you can no longer know my name and none are worthy to be in my presence. A new class of intercessor priests will speak for you and on your behalf to god. God also becomes a war god and the name Yahweh Sabaoth, God of the Armies or Israel's war god not unlike the greek war god Ares or the Roman war god Mars leads the Israelites into battles. But after the Babylonian and Persian period (7th-6th century BCE) god changed again and the temple period and priestly class took shape as well as monotheism became dominate.

Then came mighty Rome and the desire of a return to the idyllic Davidic period (Judah's version of the Platonic Golden Age of Saturn) and thus such return would need a Davidic King, a messiah to lead the people back into the great Kingdom age they long sought. Thus god from our western tradition changed again into Jesus with his message of love, peace and perfection taking man into that Kingdom of Heaven ideal, back to the future in the new Saturnian Age of the New s̶u̶n̶ Son. Just as Saturn displaced his father so to was Saturn displaced by his son. Very popular motif.

I suspect people will only discard the 2k and 3k year old Middle East desert ideas of god, heavily borrowed in the first place from Egyptian, Greek and Mesopotamian traditions and just re-brand the concept with something else of more modern extractions. Quantum Physics for example may play a role in creating new conclusions.

Part of the Christian reaction of the War on Christians as well as the Islamic War on Islam and even Judaism with their own persecution complex is that all 3 are feeling the pressures that their idea of god is slipping away and they would be right. What takes it's place over the next few centuries, we just don't know yet but expect the next couple of decades to be traumatic as these past dominate faiths continue to collapse in upon themselves.

You have some very good posts, thanks for sharing

 

[dmac1]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit still seems like polytheism to me.

 

[wkmac]

You have some very good posts, thanks for sharing

That seems to be a very minority opinion but then I kind of like it that way.

Thanks for the kind words.

 

[wkmac]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit still seems like polytheism to me.

God of Good Jesus, God of Evil Devil/Satan seems dualistic to me.

 

[teamer]

Father, Son, Holy Spirit still seems like polytheism to me.

Atheist mantra - discredit one part of one religion and you discredit all parts of all religions.

 

[wkmac]

Did the Persian Zoroastrianism with its dualistic concepts of good and evil shape Judaism and thus shape the later Christianity with its idea of Jesus (god) being the force of good and Satan/Devil being the force of evil?

Other than Job where "The Satan" (the hebrew text uses the term as title and not proper name) acts as God's prosecutor with God's blessing, the rest of the OT is mostly quite on the subject of this evil force for the purpose of dark forces. In Isaiah 45:7 speaking of God, the text states, "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." If God does all this, what is the purpose of Satan at this point? Maybe this manifestation of God and evil hasn't evolved yet to need a second lesser god for the purpose of evil. It is in the NT where we get most of our concepts regarding Satan/Devil as a evil force in opposition. More on Isaiah 45 to come.

Zoroastrianism and it's dualistic concepts was the official religion of Persia for 1200 years including the time when Cyrus the Great ruled who then freed the captured peoples from Jerusalem held by the Babylonians. Cyrus even used Persian State wealth to fund the Jerusalem return and the rebuilding of the temple. Isaiah 45 speaks of Cyrus the Great, King of Persia as doing Yahweh's will, acting at his right hand which is symbolic of a divine position of absolute power. The text even refers to Cyrus as God's anointed and the word translated such is also the same word we get messiah or in the greek, the word Christos or Christ. Isaiah 45 is also a text suggesting a form of absolute monotheism which is a later manifestation as opposed to the earlier Sinai law of "thou shalt have no other god before me" to now "there is no other god but me!" One more little tidbit in how god changes over time.

But this raises the question about the influence of Persian and Zoroastrian thoughts about god on the people of Jerusalem which would then later shape the people of Christianity.

Zoroastrianism

 

[bbsam]

You've just given me a great idea. I can take my entire family and go through a couple of neighborhoods a day spreading the word of agnosticism. We'll start at 0500 so people will be full of energy and understanding! We'll ride bicycles and wear white shirts and plastic name plates. Thank you!

I would almost buy you and your family a plane ticket to my neighborhood because I don't think you could make it through a morning let alone a weekend. You'd be done before the tenth door slammed in your face.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

I would almost buy you and your family a plane ticket to my neighborhood because I don't think you could make it through a morning let alone a weekend. You'd be done before the tenth door slammed in your face.

I once witnessed my mother in law offer to buy a plane ticket home for a Mormon on mission who came to her door. She wasn't being mean, she really felt sorry for them, but for all the wrong reasons lol. She's classic southern baptist. I still get a good laugh out of it.

 

[bbsam]

I once witnessed my mother in law offer to buy a plane ticket home for a Mormon on mission who came to her door. She wasn't being mean, she really felt sorry for them, but for all the wrong reasons lol. She's classic southern baptist. I still get a good laugh out of it.

I'm a fan of Mormons in the Trey Parker/Matt Stone kinda way. I think they are odd but polite and committed but not overbearing.

 

[wkmac]

I once witnessed my mother in law offer to buy a plane ticket home for a Mormon on mission who came to her door. She wasn't being mean, she really felt sorry for them, but for all the wrong reasons lol. She's classic southern baptist. I still get a good laugh out of it.

A couple of months ago we had a Saturday where the weather was spring like and 2 Mormons hit my door. I came out and we actually sat for about 45 minutes on the front porch and had a great conversation. They thought it was cool that someone who rejected their concepts of god also subscribed to the LDS YouTube channel "Academy of Temple Studies" and we had a lengthy conversion about the Book of Enoch (among other things) which in Mormon circles is important. One of the young Mormons even went to the Temple Studies channel and watched Professor Bill Dever presentation about the wife of god Asherah at my suggestion (I've posted that presentation here before) and he sent me a message on YouTube thanking me for the heads up. He's now watching other presentations by Dr. Dever on the lack of archaeology to support the claims of a Israelite empire or even a mass exodus from Egypt. The PBS Nova program "The Bible's Buried Secrets" is also a good primer and includes Dr. Dever among others.

Sometimes those knocks on the door can begin a work in reverse.

 

[bbsam]

A couple of months ago we had a Saturday where the weather was spring like and 2 Mormons hit my door. I came out and we actually sat for about 45 minutes on the front porch and had a great conversation. They thought it was cool that someone who rejected their concepts of god also subscribed to the LDS YouTube channel "Academy of Temple Studies" and we had a lengthy conversion about the Book of Enoch (among other things) which in Mormon circles is important. One of the young Mormons even went to the Temple Studies channel and watched Professor Bill Dever presentation about the wife of god Asherah at my suggestion (I've posted that presentation here before) and he sent me a message on YouTube thanking me for the heads up. He's now watching other presentations by Dr. Dever on the lack of archaeology to support the claims of a Israelite empire or even a mass exodus from Egypt. The PBS Nova program "The Bible's Buried Secrets" is also a good primer and includes Dr. Dever among others.

Sometimes those knocks on the door can begin a work in reverse.

Not a work in reverse. Just an expansion of understanding between people. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[pickup]

I've had similar thoughts about the universe - specifically whether or not consciousness couldn't be considered as a fundamental force in the same way gravity and EM are interwoven into the fabric of reality, and that we are acted upon by it and experience it in the same way massive objects experience gravity.

Of course, this is just a fanciful notion and I can't imagine how we would test it.

Well, the double split experiment with the electrons was one such test. Sees to be that consciousness does play something of a role .