Respond or response whatever it's called

[Star B]

So when Express drivers pick up the packages they don’t “enter the Express network?”

One could argue that entering the network is when it transits via linehaul. But I do get what you're saying... An express driver accepted the package so it's in "our network".

The only reason why Express is under the RLA is because we started off flying airplanes. That's it. If we provided one/two/three day ground shipping -- we would have been covered under the NLRB.

Or to put it another way -- do you think UPS would have the ability to argue that they are an airline and no longer subject to the NLRB and should be under the RLA because they own and operate their own airline now?

 

[btrlov]

sorry for the side bar... i have always found it slightly annoying that fedex uses the term "freight" refering to packages also just like express calls supervisors "managers" but anyway ...why does fedex call it "freight". In UPS they rarely use that term, its usally "volume" "packages" or"pieces". where does the "freight" terminology come from?

 

[Aquaman]

One could argue that entering the network is when it transits via linehaul. But I do get what you're saying... An express driver accepted the package so it's in "our network".

The only reason why Express is under the RLA is because we started off flying airplanes. That's it. If we provided one/two/three day ground shipping -- we would have been covered under the NLRB.

Or to put it another way -- do you think UPS would have the ability to argue that they are an airline and no longer subject to the NLRB and should be under the RLA because they own and operate their own airline now?

If it’s not in our network until linehaul. That means couriers & RTD’s doing PUD, work outside of the express network. Meaning we shouldn’t be RLA employees. If the stop is dispatched by our dispatchers, scanned on our LEO’s, loaded into our trucks, going down our conveyor belts... it’s in our network. Period.

 

[fdxsux]

sorry for the side bar... i have always found it slightly annoying that fedex uses the term "freight" refering to packages also just like express calls supervisors "managers" but anyway ...why does fedex call it "freight". In UPS they rarely use that term, its usally "volume" "packages" or"pieces". where does the "freight" terminology come from?

Probably the same reason UPS calls their trucks cars.

 

[Nolimitz]

sorry for the side bar... i have always found it slightly annoying that fedex uses the term "freight" refering to packages also just like express calls supervisors "managers" but anyway ...why does fedex call it "freight". In UPS they rarely use that term, its usally "volume" "packages" or"pieces". where does the "freight" terminology come from?

1. goods transported in bulk by truck, train, ship, or aircraft.
   "a decline in the amount of freight carried by rail"

1. 
   
   
   

 

[59 Dano]

You're twisting what I quoted. The issue is control of the employees. FedEx has the exemption only because Ground and Express are separate. You are obviously trying to deflect from the fact that LMO freight is not enter the Express network.
Here's the quote again for you to try to twist.

RLA or NLRA?

FedEx and UPS Follow
the Money Trail
By Frank N. Wilner
The NMB responded that “there [was] no dispute” that FedEx Express is a carrier subject to the RLA with respect to its pilots and aircraft mechanics. As for its ground-service employees, the NMB ruled there was “no clear and convincing evidence to support” a decision other than affirming that those FedEx Express ground-service employees, such as package sorters and truck drivers, were subject to the jurisdiction of the RLA, not to that of the NLRA.The NMB justified its decision in favor of FedEx Express by pointing to § 181 of the 1936 statute that extended RLA coverage to airlines,10 which provides that “[E]very air pilot or other person who performs any work as an employee or subordinate official of such [air] carrier or carriers” is subject to RLA coverage. According to the ruling made by the NMB:The RLA does not limit its coverage to air carrier employees who fly or maintain aircraft. Rather, its coverage extends to virtually all employees engaged in performing a service for the carrier so that the carrier may transport passengers or freight. ... The limit [on coverage] is that the carrier must have continuing authority to supervise and direct [its employees]. ... The couriers, tractor-trailer drivers, operations agents and other employees sought by the UAW are employed by FedEx directly. As the record amply demonstrates, these employees, as part of FedEx’s air express delivery system, are supervised by FedEx employees. The Board need not look further to find that all of the FedEx [Express] employees are subject to the RLA. ..

Here's what's relevant: are Express employees employed by an airline? Yes.

It makes no difference how long Express packages stay in the Express network. It makes no difference if Express contracts Ground (or anyone else) for last mile carriage. Others have attempted to split hairs to the extent that the issue is one big convoluted mess, but the issue is that Express employees are employed by an airline and covered by the RLA.

 

[59 Dano]

This is where FedEx is pushing the boundaries. And this is why they are transferred at Origin and not put on planes.

LOL, there is no boundary to push and there's no policy, law, order, or any other legalese that says there is.

 

[59 Dano]

The only reason why Express is under the RLA is because we started off flying airplanes. That's it. If we provided one/two/three day ground shipping -- we would have been covered under the NLRB.

Or to put it another way -- do you think UPS would have the ability to argue that they are an airline and no longer subject to the NLRB and should be under the RLA because they own and operate their own airline now?

That's not a good analogy, as UPS is actually two opcos, one of which is an airline whose employees (drivers included) are covered by the RLA.

People... stop trying to make this so difficult. This is 1+1. At worst, it can be figured out by counting on your fingers. Instead there are piles of scratch paper, slide rules, TI scientific calculators, etc. trying to solve it.

 

[59 Dano]

That means couriers & RTD’s doing PUD, work outside of the express network. Meaning we shouldn’t be RLA employees..

What language within the RLA or NMB rulings suggest that Express couriers, RTDs, etc. shouldn't be RLA employees?

 

[59 Dano]

So when Express drivers pick up the packages they don’t “enter the Express network?”

The status of being in the Express network is one of those things that someone on the board (probably MF, as he did this often) created from whole cloth and presented as gospel when in fact it's absolutely meaningless in the context of this discussion.

 

[silenze]

That's not a good analogy, as UPS is actually two opcos, one of which is an airline whose employees (drivers included) are covered by the RLA.

People... stop trying to make this so difficult. This is 1+1. At worst, it can be figured out by counting on your fingers. Instead there are piles of scratch paper, slide rules, TI scientific calculators, etc. trying to solve it.

Only ups pilots are covered under RLA and can't strike.

 

[MAKAVELI]

LOL, there is no boundary to push and there's no policy, law, order, or any other legalese that says there is.

If that were the case, FedEx would be all contractors with the RLA status. Let me know when that happens.

 

[59 Dano]

Only ups pilots are covered under RLA and can't strike.

No, pilots aren't the only ones covered.

 

[59 Dano]

If that were the case, FedEx would be all contractors with the RLA status. Let me know when that happens.

"I can't find anything at all anywhere that supports what I say but it must be true because I can't think of any other reason why it wouldn't be true."

 

[Serf]

For the first time since all the talk; I heard the ground guy in my area say: Wtf? I get about 20-30 express deliveries now.” I was actually kinda surprised.

 

[NC man]

went to a house (different ones)last two days and ground had been there with 4Z pkg. two drivers, same house. what a joke

 

[Star B]

Only ups pilots are covered under RLA and can't strike.

Anybody who works for UPS airlines can't strike and has one hell of a time to try to unionize.

Back when I worked for a Delta subsidiary, even though we weren't directly employed by Delta we were covered by the RLA.

 

[silenze]

Anybody who works for UPS airlines can't strike and has one hell of a time to try to unionize.

Back when I worked for a Delta subsidiary, even though we weren't directly employed by Delta we were covered by the RLA.

Ups is 100% union. The only people covered under rla are pilots and the mechanics that work on the planes. Everyone else are teamsters. Excluding management.