wkmac
Well-Known Member
Yes, it's flawed but only if you never look outside the box.
Rick Perrys Greatest Hits! This will be good!
- Thread starter The Other Side
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Yes, it's flawed but only if you never look outside the box.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
wkmac
Well-Known Member
That may be completely true but you can only say that in your case.
trplnkl
555
Look outside the box is zero information. Can you tell us what is outside the box, you have looked. If what you see outside the box will help. why are you so reluctant to share?
With every post that you don't actually answer the questions I posed, you loose more credibility. Look, I know you are a smart guy, you have sure read much more than I have (for personal reasons that have nothing to do with not wanting to learn) but all I have seen is your displeasure with the American political system and the government in general. Oh sure you have posted a few things here and there about farmers markets based on barter instead of currency, but that isn't exactly living outside the box, merely a step out then back in ya go.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Maybe I can translate this for you
[video=youtube;UXoNE14U_zM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXoNE14U_zM[/video]
trplnkl
555
I thought that was cool the first couple of times I saw the movie.
Try me, I can handle the truth, if you know it. I doubt you do.
Lue C Fur
Evil member
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Had I walked up to you in 1830' and made the statement, "We should abolish slavery!" would you respond back to me, "Well then how will we get our cotton picked?" The questions of the "how" part IMO are irrelevant and nothing more than driven out of fear by people use to social engineering and central planning. The idea of using force is purely a moral question and making an observation about the moral values within our society and cultural ways.
As individuals and acting as such, we all understand we are prohibited from using force to get what we want, we call that murder, robbery, theft, kidnapping, etc. But when we form collectives and within that collective structure we pick one or more among us for special positions, they are given the power to in fact do what on an individual level is called murder, theft, robbery, etc. As children, we are all told violence is wrong. We are told taking what does not belong to us is wrong and yet as adults we do the exact opposite and then we wonder why kids gravitate away from the ideals of good conduct, away from the ideals of a man called the Prince of Peace and engage in nihilism and walk into schools and kill random innocent people at will. What have these kids seen on the nightly news? What have they seen the adults champion and advocate? What have they seen adults do in the name of the state and in the name of political self interests and then we adults wave the flag, sing the Star Spangled Banner and shout Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
You scream or get upset with me when I challenge the idea of a god but yet in a real sense, you all killed god a long, long time ago and all I'm doing is repeating the obvious old news!
Telling you the answers, it's taken me 55 years to get to where I am, do you honestly believe in a 5 minute explanation on an internet forum I can imprint and answer all your questions to complete satisfaction? If I don't believe in god, why in the world would I pretend to be one?
Comments and links are nothing more than tidbits, little snippets of ideas and thoughts. Just as the questions I posed were about the force embedded in the process. It was never about the answers. You were just uncomfortable with the truth of the assertions. Well guess what, sit right down on the bench next to me, been there, done that, got a drawer full of T-Shirts. Care for a beer while we visit?
You are free to consider the comments and links, you can ignore them or you can even ridicule them. All 3 are done but with the former probably being the least chosen and the latter 2 being the most popular. If I was looking for credibility, I can assure you I wouldn't be here at all. Recently I was in Forbes so I'm comfortable with getting my due!
It's purely up to you as I believe in the non aggression axiom and voluntary exchange within mutually beneficial relationships. If bothsides benefit, the transparency of the action proves this and either side is free at any time to extract itself from the arrangement, if it's good, why would force be needed to compel compliance? If social security for example was fully funded, all the money locked up tight in the lock box, how do you really bitch at that? Sure, conservatives do exaggerate the situation but then so do liberals. Liberals scream that the Kochtopus and friends want to kill social security and that would be true but yet those same liberal ignore their own culpability in destroying Social Security after all these years treating it like a political slush fund. Had they maintain a true fiscal responsible ideal towards it, attacking social security by anyone, even on principled grounds like force would really be a non-starter for the vast majority of the public.
As for operating without the use of force, ever had to pull your gun on the grocer to get him to sell you his food? There might have even been a time when that same grocer might have sold you the bullets to your gun and a cleaning kit over on isle #9 so forcing a sale was not a problem. In fact, there was a time in the south where it was the State who prohibited certain businessmen from selling products and services to african americans (I'm old enough to remember those finals days)so if the fear is people will refuse others, just remember in order to compel compliance to this social ideal, they needed a law to begin with because they feared left to a voluntary action, sales and services to african american would in fact happen anyway. Left to voluntary action, integration would have happened long ago.
Ponder all the times throughout your normal day where you interact with people, where no violence or force is needed and how all involved benefit. This is called voluntary exchange. So if you can do that on a daily basis without a coercive central entity telling you to, then why is it, leviathan, needed everywhere else? Stop being afraid of the dark!
But then, "Fear is the mind killer!"
Remembering Albert J. Nock and Our Enemy, The State!
UnconTROLLed
perfection
"..Hook in mouth.."
tonight, we should see some real fireworks as Mitt Romney will attempt to hit Perry pretty hard. I am looking forward to the dirt that will be thrown at perry in tonights debate.
Peace.
Peace.
Yes I do, I got all of you drones to deal with afterwards misrepresenting what they say.
Peace.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
So he can come here tomorrow and..............
[video=youtube;J2BPA0j8a8A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2BPA0j8a8A[/video]
and you'll fall for it every time too!
trplnkl
555
Thank you for this response, much better than quips that mean nothing.
Thanks again for the thoughtful reply.Had I walked up to you in 1830' and made the statement, "We should abolish slavery!" would you respond back to me, "Well then how will we get our cotton picked?" The questions of the "how" part IMO are irrelevant and nothing more than driven out of fear by people use to social engineering and central planning. The idea of using force is purely a moral question and making an observation about the moral values within our society and cultural ways.
It's hard to say what my reply would be about slavery in the 1830s, there is no way of telling what I would be doing and how I would feel about the issue, but given what I feel about it now I would have been in agreement with you.
Anytime a society grows into the numbers of people that the US grew to fairly rapidly will almost certainly be prone to "social engineering and central planning", it seems to be inevitable. Do you know of any societies with a population in the thousands that doesn't have some type of government? All laws imply force in one way or another. A society of any size without laws or rules would result in total chaos. Using force is indeed a moral dilemma.
As individuals and acting as such, we all understand we are prohibited from using force to get what we want, we call that murder, robbery, theft, kidnapping, etc. But when we form collectives and within that collective structure we pick one or more among us for special positions, they are given the power to in fact do what on an individual level is called murder, theft, robbery, etc. As children, we are all told violence is wrong. We are told taking what does not belong to us is wrong and yet as adults we do the exact opposite and then we wonder why kids gravitate away from the ideals of good conduct, away from the ideals of a man called the Prince of Peace and engage in nihilism and walk into schools and kill random innocent people at will. What have these kids seen on the nightly news? What have they seen the adults champion and advocate? What have they seen adults do in the name of the state and in the name of political self interests and then we adults wave the flag, sing the Star Spangled Banner and shout Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
Most people know the murder is wrong, same for theft and many other things. As to what drives kids to kill, there are many things that might add to the horrible events such as Columbine and too many other like atrocities. Yea, kids do see things on the nightly news of killing and all sorts of other mayhem, some by adults and some by other kids. That's why there are laws forced upon us to deal with the perpetrators of these actions. I've not seen many cases of adults champion or advocate murder. (our definitions of murder may vary)
Yea, we do wave the flag and sing the national anthem and celebrate combat victories. To say that all the battles are purely political self interest is short sighted and in many cases twisted by idealists with different view points. Well, I guess one could say that keeping our country and people out of the control of the third reich or communist rule is political self interest.
You scream or get upset with me when I challenge the idea of a god but yet in a real sense, you all killed god a long, long time ago and all I'm doing is repeating the obvious old news!
No actually I don't get upset or scream at you for your stance on the existence of God. I may present my opinion but have never told you that you were not entitled to your opinion.
IMO, the answer to the problem of kids killing as mentioned your previous paragraph could be, in part, solved by parents being actually involved with their children and teaching them what is right and what is wrong.
Telling you the answers, it's taken me 55 years to get to where I am, do you honestly believe in a 5 minute explanation on an internet forum I can imprint and answer all your questions to complete satisfaction? If I don't believe in god, why in the world would I pretend to be one?
All I wanted was what you suggested to make life better in the USA and how to do it. A "think outside the box" response is a cop out saying you don't have any answers, just a dissatisfaction with reality. The overwhelming fact is we live in an un-perfect world with un-perfect people, it's in mankind's nature to survive.
Comments and links are nothing more than tidbits, little snippets of ideas and thoughts. Just as the questions I posed were about the force embedded in the process. It was never about the answers. You were just uncomfortable with the truth of the assertions. Well guess what, sit right down on the bench next to me, been there, done that, got a drawer full of T-Shirts. Care for a beer while we visit?
I'd be more than happy to sit and have a beer or three with you as we discuss the world and mankind. I'm not pleased with everything either.
You are free to consider the comments and links, you can ignore them or you can even ridicule them. All 3 are done but with the former probably being the least chosen and the latter 2 being the most popular. If I was looking for credibility, I can assure you I wouldn't be here at all. Recently I was in Forbes so I'm comfortable with getting my due!
I've read many of the links and as anything I read, hear or see I do consider the content. Yea, some of the I ignore, some I do ridicule depending on the content and source.
Fobes huh? I was in Playboy comments forum once, does that count? LOL, just ribbing ya.
Oh and BTW, my challenge of your credibility was to get you to post something more substantial that , "look outside the box".
It's purely up to you as I believe in the non aggression axiom and voluntary exchange within mutually beneficial relationships. If bothsides benefit, the transparency of the action proves this and either side is free at any time to extract itself from the arrangement, if it's good, why would force be needed to compel compliance? If social security for example was fully funded, all the money locked up tight in the lock box, how do you really bitch at that? Sure, conservatives do exaggerate the situation but then so do liberals. Liberals scream that the Kochtopus and friends want to kill social security and that would be true but yet those same liberal ignore their own culpability in destroying Social Security after all these years treating it like a political slush fund. Had they maintain a true fiscal responsible ideal towards it, attacking social security by anyone, even on principled grounds like force would really be a non-starter for the vast majority of the public.
non aggression axiom, golden rule, do unto others are all great ideals and would make our world perfect if every person on the plane would go by those without fail.
There is no doubt in my mind that the SSA would be a good program if it were not for politicians of every flavor, it has become a political football to be kicked around by the DC bullies.
As for operating without the use of force, ever had to pull your gun on the grocer to get him to sell you his food? There might have even been a time when that same grocer might have sold you the bullets to your gun and a cleaning kit over on isle #9 so forcing a sale was not a problem. In fact, there was a time in the south where it was the State who prohibited certain businessmen from selling products and services to african americans (I'm old enough to remember those finals days)so if the fear is people will refuse others, just remember in order to compel compliance to this social ideal, they needed a law to begin with because they feared left to a voluntary action, sales and services to african american would in fact happen anyway. Left to voluntary action, integration would have happened long ago.
As in every issue there are two sides that need to be considered. Is it right to force a merchant to not do business with anyone? No, clearly in your example it is dead wrong. On the other hand, is is right to force a merchant to do business with anyone? I say no again.
I can vividly remember the first time I became aware of racism of any kind. I don't remember how old I was, guessing around 10 years, but I do remember where I was and how confused I was about the whole concept.
Ponder all the times throughout your normal day where you interact with people, where no violence or force is needed and how all involved benefit. This is called voluntary exchange. So if you can do that on a daily basis without a coercive central entity telling you to, then why is it, leviathan, needed everywhere else? Stop being afraid of the dark!
But then, "Fear is the mind killer!"
Not afraid of the dark, it's the nasty creepy critters in the dark I fear.
Remembering Albert J. Nock and Our Enemy, The State!
wkmac
Well-Known Member
You may consider it a cop out and that's fine but I doubt very seriously you were ever interested in that POV anyway. Besides, in all your claims that I answer your question, you never once answered mine to begin with. Seems to me that makes us even. Stop trying to remove the speck from my eye with a log in yours!
If force is morally wrong, seems to me the first order would be for any person to make efforts to eliminate it from their lives, in it's many forms, best they can. Doing so in relationship to others would promote a similar response in return because it's clear to see that using force always provokes more force. Who knows, in time and over a few years, it might become a popular thing. Interesting how so many people across the planet identify with a man who once said, "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" and yet so many seem to have forgotten that part of the story.
I wonder what the Prince of Peace will have to say one day about people who partake and supported human institutions over the course of the 20th century that killed over 100 million people (many of them followers of his)in seeking it's own self interests? Funny, Matthew 7:21-23 comes to mind.
As to the subject of Rick Perry.
Transcript:
Oh Rick, you good christian you, Thou Shall Not Bear False Witness!
Forgot the politics, it's about principle!
trplnkl
555
I would not have asked you how to get to the place you want us to be if I was not interested in your POV. The phrase " look outside the box" is a cop out that offers no information or explanation. That's like giving someone a jigsaw puzzle with all square pieces and no picture.
I must have lost your question somewhere in the attempt to understand what you are posting. If you want to pose the question again, I will try to answer.
You get the idea that I am trying to change you, I say Nay Nay. IMO, you are free to seek your own happiness and do not expect you to do so in the same way I do mine.
My take on Perry is, he's not perfect, but he's dang sure better than 0Bama.
moreluck
golden ticket member
Coulter comments on Perry.......
http://townhall.com/columnists/annc...k_perry_have_a_performance_problem/page/full/
http://townhall.com/columnists/annc...k_perry_have_a_performance_problem/page/full/
trplnkl
555
Didn't sound like he was "tipping his hat" to the birthers. Didn't see anything that the BC as an issue to him.
If he's hanging out with Trump, then he's reaching out to birthers. Perry is desperate. Today, Perry is using abortion against CAIN and ROMNEY.
GODS , GUNS, ABORTION.
The standard GOP talking points every 4 years.
Peace.
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