Riding with drivers.

[fr8dog]

They're not going to try and eliminate benefits, they're going to go after everyone(fulltimer's and partimer's) paying couple hundred bucks a month towards it. That's what they tried with us. That will be the reason you'll strike. Start saving.

 

[menotyou]

Management has numbers to run, production standards that we have to live up to. The union does not recognize production standards. That causes an automatic divide between management and their people.

Did anyone else notice that the 'numbers to run' came before 'production standards'? I sure did.

 

[Upser08]

Did anyone else notice that the 'numbers to run' came before 'production standards'? I sure did.

Please make sense when you speak. It takes too long to see responses on this forum for someone not to elaborate on their comments. What were you trying to say, and how did what I say not make sense. What difference does it make what came first?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

What difference does it make what came first?

I guess the difference depends upon whether you are the chicken or the egg.

 

[Griff]

I've learned over the years that managers that think all drivers are liars have a problem themselves.

A pickpocket only see pockets and is always guarding theirs.

I believe that the vast majority of managers and hourlies go a great job.

If you think the "majority of managers at UPS are rotten to the core", maybe you need to look in the miror. Part of the problem is there.

Your post makes zero sense. It also reeks of an idealistic IE manager who is out of touch with reality at the real UPS. In other words, I'm guessing you aren't in operations and you sipped the brown kool-aid about 25+ years ago. I'm a steward here and I've seen, heard and smelled the evil first hand. No one on these forums can take away my real experiences with this company and its yearly push to get more blood from a stone. I've physically seen the harassment, intimidation and coercion. I've physically witnessed violence in the workplace. I've physically seen the preferential treatment afforded to certain people. I've physically seen the OSHA violations. I've physically seen a preload manager slicing the tires of an hourly employee. I've physically seen the lengths that this company will go to rid someone from their employ. Meanwhile, I've seen the staggering number of hardworking (and STUPID) men and women who give up $10,000+ a year in CASH all in the name of "numbers" for an ungrateful company that is consumed and rotting from within by limitless greed. I have zero problems looking in the mirror every morning, I have no blood on my hands and certainly have none in the name of corporate profiteering.

You can keep denying reality from your cubical all you want -- really makes no difference to those of us who live it monday through friday.

 

[pretzel_man]

Your post makes zero sense. It also reeks of an idealistic IE manager who is out of touch with reality at the real UPS. In other words, I'm guessing you aren't in operations and you sipped the brown kool-aid about 25+ years ago. I'm a steward here and I've seen, heard and smelled the evil first hand. No one on these forums can take away my real experiences with this company and its yearly push to get more blood from a stone. I've physically seen the harassment, intimidation and coercion. I've physically witnessed violence in the workplace. I've physically seen the preferential treatment afforded to certain people. I've physically seen the OSHA violations. I've physically seen a preload manager slicing the tires of an hourly employee. I've physically seen the lengths that this company will go to rid someone from their employ. Meanwhile, I've seen the staggering number of hardworking (and STUPID) men and women who give up $10,000+ a year in CASH all in the name of "numbers" for an ungrateful company that is consumed and rotting from within by limitless greed. I have zero problems looking in the mirror every morning, I have no blood on my hands and certainly have none in the name of corporate profiteering.

You can keep denying reality from your cubical all you want -- really makes no difference to those of us who live it monday through friday.

I can only assume you accurately represent your experience......

It doesn't match mine.

Here are your words:

"I'm incapable of being sympathetic or compassionate to one of the lowest forms of human scum. Karma is a you know what and the majority of managers at UPS are rotten to the core. Just evil and hateful people who want nothing more than to cause pain, anguish and financial ruin on people who do the job the way it's meant to be done. "

There are 30,000 UPS managment people. The majority hard working, good honest people.

You chose to attack them (and me).

I have seen many dishonest, rotten hourly Teamsters in my time too. I see them as individuals, and not representative of the other 350,000+ other hard working Teamsters.

If you have been mistreated, I'm sorry about that. I won't defend that improper behavior.

As I said before.... If all you can see are rotten UPS management people, you are part of the problem.

 

[Griff]

I can only assume you accurately represent your experience......

It doesn't match mine.

Here are your words:

"I'm incapable of being sympathetic or compassionate to one of the lowest forms of human scum. Karma is a you know what and the majority of managers at UPS are rotten to the core. Just evil and hateful people who want nothing more than to cause pain, anguish and financial ruin on people who do the job the way it's meant to be done. "

There are 30,000 UPS managment people. The majority hard working, good honest people.

You chose to attack them (and me).

I have seen many dishonest, rotten hourly Teamsters in my time too. I see them as individuals, and not representative of the other 350,000+ other hard working Teamsters.

If you have been mistreated, I'm sorry about that. I won't defend that improper behavior.

As I said before.... If all you can see are rotten UPS management people, you are part of the problem.

I'll estimate that over my time at UPS I have been in contact with at least 750 members of management, it very well could be higher than this. I feel like it's lower but my mind tells me that's only because the company doesn't transfer managers as much as they used to. Anyway, out of these 750 human beings I can honestly only pick 4 people who I could say were respectable, talented, honest and hardworking people. My only disclaimer to that figure of 4 people would be that the number would be higher if not for the last 5 years. In my opinion, anyone with operations experience outside of the last 5 years has absolutely no credibility or perspective of reality at present day UPS. The company has gotten rapidly and progressively worse over the last 5 years in regards to dishonest, evil and hateful management people. If you were to ask me to ratio this out 10 years ago my answer would be somewhat different. However, the ratio would still be unbelievably poor by my estimation. What if 4 boxes out of every 750 got delivered to the correct address? What if there were 4 honest drivers out of a group of 750? What if 4 customers out of 750 were satisfied with their service they receive from UPS? What would be done?

I guess what I'm trying to convey to you is that "majority" and "minority" are subjective terms and our personal experiences obviously alter the statistics of it all. I know nothing else, neither does anyone in our hub, that's the UPS we see and breathe everyday. This site basically confirms on a daily basis that this is a company-wide phenomenon. While other people who post here may not possess my venom, they still feel the company is being unethical and operating in a irresponsible manner. This website proves it is not an isolated issue, I believe this behavior is being taught and encouraged by Atlanta. These actions will come back to harm this company eventually, I predict in the form of (more) massive lawsuit settlements, fines and most definitely a labor strike in years to come.

 

[menotyou]

Please make sense when you speak. It takes too long to see responses on this forum for someone not to elaborate on their comments. What were you trying to say, and how did what I say not make sense. What difference does it make what came first?

I hear a Whaaaambulance.

 

[menotyou]

Your post makes zero sense. It also reeks of an idealistic IE manager who is out of touch with reality at the real UPS. In other words, I'm guessing you aren't in operations and you sipped the brown kool-aid about 25+ years ago. I'm a steward here and I've seen, heard and smelled the evil first hand. No one on these forums can take away my real experiences with this company and its yearly push to get more blood from a stone. I've physically seen the harassment, intimidation and coercion. I've physically witnessed violence in the workplace. I've physically seen the preferential treatment afforded to certain people. I've physically seen the OSHA violations. I've physically seen a preload manager slicing the tires of an hourly employee. I've physically seen the lengths that this company will go to rid someone from their employ. Meanwhile, I've seen the staggering number of hardworking (and STUPID) men and women who give up $10,000+ a year in CASH all in the name of "numbers" for an ungrateful company that is consumed and rotting from within by limitless greed. I have zero problems looking in the mirror every morning, I have no blood on my hands and certainly have none in the name of corporate profiteering.

You can keep denying reality from your cubical all you want -- really makes no difference to those of us who live it monday through friday.

This has been my experience. People on this forum think I am exaggerating. I am not. Working at a center that is 70 miles away from the hub is basically like the wild west. They think there are no rules. They can get away with whatever they want including intentionally injuring employees. Meaning me, yes, me.

 

[pretzel_man]

I'll estimate that over my time at UPS I have been in contact with at least 750 members of management, it very well could be higher than this. I feel like it's lower but my mind tells me that's only because the company doesn't transfer managers as much as they used to. Anyway, out of these 750 human beings I can honestly only pick 4 people who I could say were respectable, talented, honest and hardworking people. My only disclaimer to that figure of 4 people would be that the number would be higher if not for the last 5 years. In my opinion, anyone with operations experience outside of the last 5 years has absolutely no credibility or perspective of reality at present day UPS. The company has gotten rapidly and progressively worse over the last 5 years in regards to dishonest, evil and hateful management people. If you were to ask me to ratio this out 10 years ago my answer would be somewhat different. However, the ratio would still be unbelievably poor by my estimation. What if 4 boxes out of every 750 got delivered to the correct address? What if there were 4 honest drivers out of a group of 750? What if 4 customers out of 750 were satisfied with their service they receive from UPS? What would be done?

I guess what I'm trying to convey to you is that "majority" and "minority" are subjective terms and our personal experiences obviously alter the statistics of it all. I know nothing else, neither does anyone in our hub, that's the UPS we see and breathe everyday. This site basically confirms on a daily basis that this is a company-wide phenomenon. While other people who post here may not possess my venom, they still feel the company is being unethical and operating in a irresponsible manner. This website proves it is not an isolated issue, I believe this behavior is being taught and encouraged by Atlanta. These actions will come back to harm this company eventually, I predict in the form of (more) massive lawsuit settlements, fines and most definitely a labor strike in years to come.

I guess I don't know what else to day.

In your rather large sample, greater than 99% of management you met were dishonest and / or lazy.

I can only go back to my original point....

What would you say to a manager who proclaimed that 99% of drivers he met were dishonest?

I would say that he / she was biased. Not looking at things rationally.

I believe the vast majority of managers and hourlies are hard working good people.

Looks like I cannot convince you to look at that.

 

[Catatonic]

I'll estimate that over my time at UPS I have been in contact with at least 750 members of management, it very well could be higher than this. I feel like it's lower but my mind tells me that's only because the company doesn't transfer managers as much as they used to. Anyway, out of these 750 human beings I can honestly only pick 4 people who I could say were respectable, talented, honest and hardworking people.

This says a whole lot more and more definitively about you and your character than it does about the management people you have worked with over the years. UPS does offer EAS assistance as one of the benefits.

 

[hypocrisy]

Personally, I have seen a vast majority of good people at this Company. Of course I have seen egregious examples of vicious, illegal, criminal, and unethical from both sides. I believe those are the exceptions, not the rule.

What I do notice, is that a good management employee usually starts out idealistic, with positive notions of management principles that are later turned. In p/t the best create a team mentality while the worst are maliciously salting or following employees into the restroom etc. Driver on-cars can be seen to turn a corner when they return from management school. It seems they have been pumped full of arrogance and disrespect for the Contract. Usually you can watch their evolution as they are promoted to the highest level they are going to go and acceptance sets in. Then they become management I can work with and even return renewed respect for.

Center managers, Division managers etc are either arrogant tyrants, cold all-business, personality-devoid efficiency Mandaters, or the rare 'all for the drivers' type (haven't seen that in a long time, that was Old School management at UPS). Don't take those descriptions the wrong way, they are simply meant to boil it down. Other than the non-existent "for the drivers" type, I have found the "cold all-business" and "efficiency Mandater" the easiest to work with for while they are certainly difficult they seem to have better than average intelligence and will listen to reason (or a Government agency mandate). Typical meetings are productive and these type of managers let you know when a decision is out of their hands without seeming to be ineffective.

The Arrogant Tyrant is the worst of the bunch. Arrogance, in my personal belief the worst of all evils at UPS, rules the day and clouds his/her judgment. This type is somewhat unpredictable and does not hesitate to contradict themselves in the middle of a statement or edict (which can leave everyone shaking their heads). Typically if you remove logic and reason from a decision, you get the Arrogant Tyrant. They are truly a Tank and should be dealt with as such. You cannot stop a tank, but you can easily out-maneuver it.

So while I personally have more than enough reason to be bitter and spiteful with Management, I have learned that by maintaining my own integrity and keeping that door open for mutual respect and positive discourse that I can accomplish so much more as a Steward. When I need to turn up the heat, it's easy to do so.

 

[Catatonic]

... I have learned that by maintaining my own integrity ...

I think that is what everybody does. I've never met a person at UPS or elsewhere who did not maintain their own integrity.

 

[Griff]

This says a whole lot more and more definitively about you and your character than it does about the management people you have worked with over the years. UPS does offer EAS assistance as one of the benefits.

What kinda crack are you smoking?

 

[BrownTie]

What kinda crack are you smoking?

Well, I guess the Hoaxster is smoking the same crack you are smoking.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Personally, I have seen a vast majority of good people at this Company. Of course I have seen egregious examples of vicious, illegal, criminal, and unethical from both sides. I believe those are the exceptions, not the rule.

What I do notice, is that a good management employee usually starts out idealistic, with positive notions of management principles that are later turned. In p/t the best create a team mentality while the worst are maliciously salting or following employees into the restroom etc. Driver on-cars can be seen to turn a corner when they return from management school. It seems they have been pumped full of arrogance and disrespect for the Contract. Usually you can watch their evolution as they are promoted to the highest level they are going to go and acceptance sets in. Then they become management I can work with and even return renewed respect for.

Center managers, Division managers etc are either arrogant tyrants, cold all-business, personality-devoid efficiency Mandaters, or the rare 'all for the drivers' type (haven't seen that in a long time, that was Old School management at UPS). Don't take those descriptions the wrong way, they are simply meant to boil it down. Other than the non-existent "for the drivers" type, I have found the "cold all-business" and "efficiency Mandater" the easiest to work with for while they are certainly difficult they seem to have better than average intelligence and will listen to reason (or a Government agency mandate). Typical meetings are productive and these type of managers let you know when a decision is out of their hands without seeming to be ineffective.

The Arrogant Tyrant is the worst of the bunch. Arrogance, in my personal belief the worst of all evils at UPS, rules the day and clouds his/her judgment. This type is somewhat unpredictable and does not hesitate to contradict themselves in the middle of a statement or edict (which can leave everyone shaking their heads). Typically if you remove logic and reason from a decision, you get the Arrogant Tyrant. They are truly a Tank and should be dealt with as such. You cannot stop a tank, but you can easily out-maneuver it.

So while I personally have more than enough reason to be bitter and spiteful with Management, I have learned that by maintaining my own integrity and keeping that door open for mutual respect and positive discourse that I can accomplish so much more as a Steward. When I need to turn up the heat, it's easy to do so.

I do not think the "arrogant tyrants" are the worst, it is the wolf in sheeps clothing to watch out for.

The arrogant types you can not only easily outmaneuver, after a while dealing with them becomes a routine, a persistent and consistent pattern of responses. The arrogant management are the type that although I will never feel sorry for, I do feel sorry for those who deal with them outside of the workplace. When the arrogant manager or supervisor is digging for negative attention or attempting to re-establish authority to themselves in any kind of inappropriate way, If you give them the opposite response that they are seeking on a consistent basis, you can effectively create a roadblock where you no longer need to maneuver.

 

[hypocrisy]

Yes those are bad too, and probably incorporated in every type I listed in one way or another. It's just my personal dislike for the Arrogant Tyrant I guess, as sometimes I cannot believe someone can say what comes out of their mouths (Oh the tapes I could play you...). I like your approach for dealing with them also.

We should collaborate on a book: The Dissected UPS Manager. It couldn't be any worse than Driving Change even if we wrote it while drunk.

 

[menotyou]

Our preload sup is one of those 'Arrogant Tyrant' types. She is just vile.

 

[humpinbundles]

the reason that supervisors are riding with drivers is because upper management will not allow them to staff properly for the increase in volume and stops. Instead of off-setting the work with Union Employee's they can get free performance by demanding a 6th day for their managers and supervisors. They do not care about their Management Employee's or their families.

 

[fairday]

TYPICAL