Ron Carey Speaks On How Hoffa Is Trying To Sell Us Out

[sawdusttv]

Oh I don't know loyalty towards his company, the union maybe the farmer and bovine that created him. I really don't think he understands the words and we probably shouldn't speak on it too much or he might realize just how ignorant he really is.

Most on your side either give ups and the union equal credit or they give the union all of the credit for them having a good paying job and good standard of living. For some reason these principles of loyalty and appreciation have kind of escaped him.

Tie,
That would have really hurt, if I gave a crap what you think!
Brett, I could expect these things from Tie, the management lacky, but then again that is right up your ally to side with management too!
I forget Brett, You're in management also aren't you?
Or, just another management "Want -to-be."
Furthermore, I still support a UPS only pension, but one with a reallistic monitary value. Not one that is less than what we had 10 years ago. It is a good start, but they need to move on to the second round of talks, and come back when they have a serious offer.

 

[brett636]

Tie,
That would have really hurt, if I gave a crap what you think!
Brett, I could expect these things from Tie, the management lacky, but then again that is right up your ally to side with management too!
I forget Brett, You're in management also aren't you?
Or, just another management "Want -to-be."
Furthermore, I still support a UPS only pension, but one with a reallistic monitary value. Not one that is less than what we had 10 years ago. It is a good start, but they need to move on to the second round of talks, and come back when they have a serious offer.

I expect these kind of insults from someone with a mind as small as yours. I'm what you call an independent thinker, and I try not go buy into all the hype everyone is putting on about this contract. I know a lot of people who are voting no just based on hearsay. Very few have actually read what they were sent. I'm guessing you fall into this group as well.

 

[john61]

Cole - what tax fraud are you referring to? OPL? Better check your facts because the Appeals Court overruled the Tax Court.

 

[brazenbrown]

Your CS pension was screwed and quickly flushing down the toilet. UPS is putting up as much as 8 billion to fix this ticking time bomb. You on the other hand are crying because the initial payout is not more. You claim to have a backbone but it appears the development stopped when the upper end of your backbone should have evolved into a brain.

Oh my God I'm still wiping away the tears from laughter!!

 

[Anonymous Cowrad]

Carey was a hero for the working man and a hero for organized labor.

Really? Are you speaking for all the hard working UPSers in CS tired of seeing their company support the rest of the trucking industry?

I agree it is not the best contract in history; but neither was the contract of 97. Creation of article 22 jobs? Taking over the pension? Yeah, both of those were great wins! Now we have a bunch of crappy full time jobs that nobody wants (just speaking for my District) and a mis-managed fund that threatens the future of the Central States hard working UPSers.

And why on earth is it a bad thing that UPS takes over my pension? Ron seems to leave out the fact that the government can take control of the pension after 1/1/08 in situations of default. Is that a better option? That is exactly who I DON'T want managing my pension. Let's face it, UPS does a lot of things poorly; managing cash is not one of them.

 

[tieguy]

Tie,
Furthermore, I still support a UPS only pension, but one with a reallistic monitary value. Not one that is less than what we had 10 years ago. It is a good start, but they need to move on to the second round of talks, and come back when they have a serious offer.

Ten years ago we told you and your union the time was now to fix these pensions. We told you and your hero that the cost would go up significantly if we waited. All of that has come to fruition. We tried to tell you ten years ago. The question to ask now is what happens in January. It appears to me that the wording of the new laws would force CS to reduce benifits significantly until they improve their funding percentage. Looking at those new laws it appears to me that both ups and the teamsters will suffer when they kick in. Your ignorance is showing. You need to dig in and educate yourself much more rather then constantly telling us you're afraid to listen to managements side of this issue.

 

[sawdusttv]

I expect these kind of insults from someone with a mind as small as yours. I'm what you call an independent thinker, and I try not go buy into all the hype everyone is putting on about this contract. I know a lot of people who are voting no just based on hearsay. Very few have actually read what they were sent. I'm guessing you fall into this group as well.

Brett,
By your comments, you tell us alot. First, reading and understanding are two different things, and I can tell that you missed on the second part. They are experts at twisting words and if you do not take your time and study the wording line for line you will be mislead as is obvious in your case. I have not only read everything sent, but I have taken the time to study the wording that they use in these misleading mailings. You my friend are a prime example of what they want to happen. Read over it, miss the many twists in the wording and come to the conclusions that we want you to.
Now, I don't want to get into a head butting contest with you, and I apologize for any off collor remarks, (some time you just can't resist). But please take the time to break these mailings down line by line, analyze it paragraph by paragraph and you just might be surprised at what you find. The word trickery and the word phrasing that is vague to the point that it could mean any number of things.
I'll give you one example: In the UPS/IBT full-time employee pension plan highlight guide that was mailed to the members. Page 8 Partial Service Pension
All through this section they talk of the Partial Servise Pension. In order to clearly understand it you must read it very carefully due to the similarities in the word PARTIAL AND PARCEL. This type of thing is throughout every mailing and the contract proposal and must be studied carefully. I believe that this is not a coincident, and is used to confuse and dislead. Vague and Confusing Language!
Now Brett, maybe you have analyzed it carefully, but my bet is that the majority only skim over these things.
I have pointed these things out to many of my co-workers and it is like a lightbulb goes off, and they say, OH, I see what you're saying now, that is pretty sneaky.
It is in everyones best interest to take the time to, as they say, "READ BETWEEN THE LINES."
Don't just read it, STUDY IT!!!!!!

 

[tieguy]

Brett,
By your comments, you tell us alot. First, reading and understanding are two different things, and I can tell that you missed on the second part. They are experts at twisting words and if you do not take your time and study the wording line for line you will be mislead as is obvious in your case. I have not only read everything sent, but I have taken the time to study the wording that they use in these misleading mailings. You my friend are a prime example of what they want to happen. Read over it, miss the many twists in the wording and come to the conclusions that we want you to.
Now, I don't want to get into a head butting contest with you, and I apologize for any off collor remarks, (some time you just can't resist). But please take the time to break these mailings down line by line, analyze it paragraph by paragraph and you just might be surprised at what you find. The word trickery and the word phrasing that is vague to the point that it could mean any number of things.
I'll give you one example: In the UPS/IBT full-time employee pension plan highlight guide that was mailed to the members. Page 8 Partial Service Pension
All through this section they talk of the Partial Servise Pension. In order to clearly understand it you must read it very carefully due to the similarities in the word PARTIAL AND PARCEL. This type of thing is throughout every mailing and the contract proposal and must be studied carefully. I believe that this is not a coincident, and is used to confuse and dislead. Vague and Confusing Language!
Now Brett, maybe you have analyzed it carefully, but my bet is that the majority only skim over these things.
I have pointed these things out to many of my co-workers and it is like a lightbulb goes off, and they say, OH, I see what you're saying now, that is pretty sneaky.
It is in everyones best interest to take the time to, as they say, "READ BETWEEN THE LINES."
Don't just read it, STUDY IT!!!!!!

For example Brett in this posting reading it very carefully you find that sawdust first says you missed some points, that you are gullible and have been mislead because you did not read each mailing carefully enough. He then later conceeds that you may have read everything carefully and says that others don't. So using Sawdusts own analogy in this posting he said two different things about you and is clearly trying to be sneaky and misleading.

 

[speedbug]

Your CS pension was screwed and quickly flushing down the toilet. UPS is putting up as much as 8 billion to fix this ticking time bomb.
Tie,
Get your facts straight or please stop trying to spread false rumors. The amount is 6.1 billion not 8 billion.

 

[speedbug]

You claim to have a backbone but it appears the development stopped when the upper end of your backbone should have evolved into a brain.

Why is it that Cheryl does not get on a certain few when they come out with personal attacks and always gets on others. Do I sense a little bias here? Why o why can we not be fair to all .

 

[speedbug]

Oh I don't know loyalty towards his company, the union maybe the farmer and bovine that created him. I really don't think he understands the words and we probably shouldn't speak on it too much or he might realize just how ignorant he really is.

Most on your side either give ups and the union equal credit or they give the union all of the credit for them having a good paying job and good standard of living. For some reason these principles of loyalty and appreciation have kind of escaped him.

Another example of Cheryl not being equal.

 

[htc]

Now Ron Carey was'nt perfect but he care about the future of all teamsters. I am proud to have had him as our general president and local 804 president . Unfortunately this is a new era were capital gains and greed is more important than people that we pay high salaries to protect our rights. He tried to make a difference and succeed and will never be forgotten . Thank you Ron Carey.

 

[tieguy]

Tie just because management has no backbone does not mean that the rank and file will follow suit. I have been here to long to be scared by those lame management scare tactics. Go try it on your new hires.
If things go the way I vote, we will see what the next offer is!!!![/quote]

Your CS pension was screwed and quickly flushing down the toilet. UPS is putting up as much as 8 billion to fix this ticking time bomb. You on the other hand are crying because the initial payout is not more. You claim to have a backbone but it appears the development stopped when the upper end of your backbone should have evolved into a brain.

Why is it that Cheryl does not get on a certain few when they come out with personal attacks and always gets on others. Do I sense a little bias here? Why o why can we not be fair to all .

probably because I was responding to sawdusts comments which you conviently chose to ignore speedy. Nice try though

 

[k78333]

you know it! He had the balls to stand up to this company! You boys better think twice about letting this company control your (CS) pension! Don't trust them!

 

[sawdusttv]

Tie just because management has no backbone does not mean that the rank and file will follow suit. I have been here to long to be scared by those lame management scare tactics. Go try it on your new hires.
If things go the way I vote, we will see what the next offer is!!!![/quote]

If you read it carefully Tie, I didn't single out one person, but spoke of a group in general, that group being management.



probably because I was responding to sawdusts comments which you conviently chose to ignore speedy. Nice try though

 

[sawdusttv]

For example Brett in this posting reading it very carefully you find that sawdust first says you missed some points, that you are gullible and have been mislead because you did not read each mailing carefully enough. He then later conceeds that you may have read everything carefully and says that others don't. So using Sawdusts own analogy in this posting he said two different things about you and is clearly trying to be sneaky and misleading.

No Tie, WRONG again.
I said MAYBE he analized it.
I can not say for sure, one way or another, although I would be more apt to believe that he did not, or he would have caught much of the hocus-pocus in the contract language.
You however are a different story, being in management, you would never admit to this questionable language. So, I see no reason to continue this dialect with you. I think I'll go beat my head against the wall insead!

 

[satellitedriver]

Ron Carey will never be forgotten .

Nor, forgiven by me.
POX

 

[tieguy]

No Tie, WRONG again.
I said MAYBE he analized it.
I can not say for sure, one way or another, although I would be more apt to believe that he did not, or he would have caught much of the hocus-pocus in the contract language.
You however are a different story, being in management, you would never admit to this questionable language. So, I see no reason to continue this dialect with you. I think I'll go beat my head against the wall insead!

Could help you since logic and reason have not.

 

[scratch]

Why is it that Cheryl does not get on a certain few when they come out with personal attacks and always gets on others. Do I sense a little bias here? Why o why can we not be fair to all .

speedbug, you are plainly a newbie on this site. You seem to think that it is fair game to insult managers and then get bent out of shape if one says something back. The person you are complaining about was insulted by another member first and then responded. Why the double standard? Cheryl has got onto this particular member and so have I. He has been man enough to apologize before when he gotten out of line. Sometimes it take a little while for one of us moderators or the administrator to catch certain posts. We don't work shifts reading everything that is posted on this site. We rely on our members to help keep a little order and report anybody that makes bad posts about another member. There is no bias here on Cheryl's part. She started the Brown Cafe for people to have intelligent open discussions between all employees of UPS. She is very big on people being able to state their opinions on any topic. All that we expect from our members is to keep the language clean and respect other members of this community.

 

[cheryl]

Why is it that Cheryl does not get on a certain few when they come out with personal attacks and always gets on others. Do I sense a little bias here? Why o why can we not be fair to all .

Another example of Cheryl not being equal.

Speedbug, come on... do you really think that because no one responded immediately to these mildly offensive posts it's evidence that I'm biased? Are you going to pretend that you haven't seen the equally offensive posts in this forum made by people you agree with? I haven't heard from you about those posts, maybe what you really meant is that I'm biased towards them since I haven't made any public statements about them...

You registered in June 07 and didn't make your first post until mid August. You obviously have not read the archives of the past 7 years worth of posts between tieguy and me. Next time don't be so hasty and choose something more substantial as evidence for your accusations.

To put this situation in terms you'll be comfortable with: Tieguy's been here for over 7 years, in this grievance he beat you with senority.

Tieguy, please clean up your act and don't make me regret posting this...