Ron Carey Speaks On How Hoffa Is Trying To Sell Us Out

[Bill]

Really? Are you speaking for all the hard working UPSers in CS tired of seeing their company support the rest of the trucking industry?

I agree it is not the best contract in history; but neither was the contract of 97. Creation of article 22 jobs? Taking over the pension? Yeah, both of those were great wins! Now we have a bunch of crappy full time jobs that nobody wants (just speaking for my District) and a mis-managed fund that threatens the future of the Central States hard working UPSers.

And why on earth is it a bad thing that UPS takes over my pension? Ron seems to leave out the fact that the government can take control of the pension after 1/1/08 in situations of default. Is that a better option? That is exactly who I DON'T want managing my pension. Let's face it, UPS does a lot of things poorly; managing cash is not one of them.

Look at all the details before making a snap decision. Please read thread # 59. I don't want to repeat myself.

 

[Bill]

I attended the tdu conference on friday night, they had several workshops on being a better steard and labor law rights. Both were very well run and informational, i walked away with some more knowledge than when i walked in so i believe it was worth it. I stayed for the dinner and after dinner they should a 10 minute video on the 97 strike. Like many in the room i felt that solidarity again and remembered everyone that came out in support of us, from the other unions to our customers and even the media knew that OUR fight was not just for us. Our fight was for all of labor to stop greedy ceo's and executives from keeping the wealth for themselves. We as upsers walked that line to put a stop to a part-time america that was spiraling out of control. We stood together with all of america behind us to get what we the current upsers and our future upsers deserved. I was p-time in 97 and we had no friend-timers at my sort, over 160 ptimers and alot of us were working 35 to 50 hours as ptimers. Then we received $55 a week to live off of, and then ftimers came to help us, they made sure we had money to eat they would bring food, pop, cofee, and for what? Because they stood for a cause, now some will say it was soley for the pension, but the guys that helped me and others did it because we the p-timers were getting screwed. We received the long over due ftime jobs, because we didnt have ptime bills, gas, electric, etc in short we all suffered a little to gain and i beleive that 97 was a huge win for us the upser and organized labor as a whole.

Everything we gained in 97 has been for nothing if this contract passes! We sacraficed weeks of pay, we ran up our credit to make due just so we could raise our families with good morals and provide them with the best. Today we chance to lose all of these because i believe that hoffa has sold us out to ups! Many on here do not like carey, and thats fine but dont blame the cs pension on ron, good only knows how it would have turned out if the government never framed him, maybe the money wouldnt have been so heavy in the tech market when it crashed? But say what you will ron carey had the biggest set any union leader has ever had, and we benefited from that, similar to hoffa sr, he didnt do everything legal, but he did it to benefit the teamsters. Maybe one day a carey will run again and rebuild the teamsters, until then we need to tuck our tails between our legs and just take it!

I finally agree with you on something. HOFFA SOLD US OUT.

 

[local804]

I finally agree with you on something. HOFFA SOLD US OUT.

Agreed, I am totally amazed with all the nice things all the UPS suits have to say about Hoffa. Looks like hell froze over, might have to go get me a Red Socks jersey now......
lol

 

[troll patrol]

Agreed, I am totally amazed with all the nice things all the UPS suits have to say about Hoffa. Looks like hell froze over, might have to go get me a Red Socks jersey now......
lol

Where can we read all these nice things UPS suits are saying about Hoffa? I haven't seen or heard any, other than what tie said. Do you have some proof of this of is it more of your "speculation."

spec·u·la·tion

1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
2. A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork: Local804's speculations are impossible to verify.
3. Reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence.

 

[tieguy]

The only winner in this buyout is UPS. If this passes, UPS will save billions over the next few years. Right now, UPS contributes $238 per week per employee into the CS pension fund, but under the new UPS/IBT plan, UPS will contribute only $132 per week. Is UPS bailing us out, or looking at the bottom line? Also, under the proposed "new deal", if UPS contributes more each following year, then why is the 30-and-out pension frozen at $3000 per month? Logically, if UPS puts in more each year, shouldn't we receive more? The cost of living goes up each year, so every successive year, the $3000 is worth that much less. Granted, CS is a financial mess and can not sustain its present course before the fund goes into insolvancy. On the other hand, if we go into this new UPS/IBT fund, there is no guarantee after age 65. UPS only guarantees the pension money ($3000 for 30 and out) until age 65, but what happens afterwards? My understanding is that we receive two checks after 65; one from CS and another from UPS. If CS can not pay their share of the pension, UPS will not pick up the offset (it states that in article 34L page 24). Without any future UPS money going into CS, the pension fund will drain faster than before. It is inevitable that CS will not be able to pay its share, UPS will not make up the difference, and the retiree has even less to live on. UPS will continue to save big money by not contributing as much into our retirement fund. The only fair solution is for UPS to guarantee the money at any age, as well as add a cost of living increase by the guidelines set by the US government's consumer price index statistics. I await a rebuttal.

 

[local804]

Where can we read all these nice things UPS suits are saying about Hoffa? I haven't seen or heard any, other than what tie said. Do you have some proof of this of is it more of your "speculation."

spec·u·la·tion

1. Inference or judgment based on inconclusive or incomplete evidence; guesswork.
2. A statement, opinion, or conclusion based on guesswork: Local804's speculations are impossible to verify.
3. Reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence.

I usually dont respond to trolls but Norman ******** District Manager sent a letter to every employee in the district a few weeks ago. If I didnt thow that crap in the trash, I would scan it and post it for your clown Arse to read. If anyone from the district still has the letter, please post for this troll.

 

[Bill]

Tie, You did not write one thing to debate the points I made. Are you conceding that I am right?

 

[sawdusttv]

Ten years ago we told you and your union the time was now to fix these pensions. We told you and your hero that the cost would go up significantly if we waited. All of that has come to fruition. We tried to tell you ten years ago. The question to ask now is what happens in January. It appears to me that the wording of the new laws would force CS to reduce benifits significantly until they improve their funding percentage. Looking at those new laws it appears to me that both ups and the teamsters will suffer when they kick in. Your ignorance is showing. You need to dig in and educate yourself much more rather then constantly telling us you're afraid to listen to managements side of this issue.

I don't have to listen to managements side of the issue. I know it like the back of my hand. I've heard their side for 25 years, it hasn't changed. As our native Americans might say, they speak with a folked tongue and always have, and YES that includes you TIEGUY, old buddy.

 

[sawdusttv]

I attended the tdu conference on friday night, they had several workshops on being a better steard and labor law rights. Both were very well run and informational, i walked away with some more knowledge than when i walked in so i believe it was worth it. I stayed for the dinner and after dinner they should a 10 minute video on the 97 strike. Like many in the room i felt that solidarity again and remembered everyone that came out in support of us, from the other unions to our customers and even the media knew that OUR fight was not just for us. Our fight was for all of labor to stop greedy ceo's and executives from keeping the wealth for themselves. We as upsers walked that line to put a stop to a part-time america that was spiraling out of control. We stood together with all of america behind us to get what we the current upsers and our future upsers deserved. I was p-time in 97 and we had no friend-timers at my sort, over 160 ptimers and alot of us were working 35 to 50 hours as ptimers. Then we received $55 a week to live off of, and then ftimers came to help us, they made sure we had money to eat they would bring food, pop, cofee, and for what? Because they stood for a cause, now some will say it was soley for the pension, but the guys that helped me and others did it because we the p-timers were getting screwed. We received the long over due ftime jobs, because we didnt have ptime bills, gas, electric, etc in short we all suffered a little to gain and i beleive that 97 was a huge win for us the upser and organized labor as a whole.

Everything we gained in 97 has been for nothing if this contract passes! We sacraficed weeks of pay, we ran up our credit to make due just so we could raise our families with good morals and provide them with the best. Today we chance to lose all of these because i believe that hoffa has sold us out to ups! Many on here do not like carey, and thats fine but dont blame the cs pension on ron, good only knows how it would have turned out if the government never framed him, maybe the money wouldnt have been so heavy in the tech market when it crashed? But say what you will ron carey had the biggest set any union leader has ever had, and we benefited from that, similar to hoffa sr, he didnt do everything legal, but he did it to benefit the teamsters. Maybe one day a carey will run again and rebuild the teamsters, until then we need to tuck our tails between our legs and just take it!

RED,
WOW! I'm totally shocked at your stand here, but bravo!!! You said a mouth full and I'm with you 100% on this one.
Well said brother RED!!!!!!

 

[sawdusttv]

Everything we gained in 97 has been for nothing if this contract passes!

Perhaps for once and for all we can finally fix the CS pension nightmare? If we do so and undue that part of 97 then our people win. The strike in 97 was already for nothing because carey refused our efforts to fix the pensions.

We sacraficed weeks of pay, we ran up our credit to make due just so we could raise our families with good morals and provide them with the best.

I hope you don't feel you have to strike in order to be able to raise your family on good morals. If so then teach them about Careys money laundering scheme. tell them that while you supported the guy in 97 the right thing now should be carey going to jail. thats morals.

Today we chance to lose all of these because i believe that hoffa has sold us out to ups! Many on here do not like carey, and thats fine but dont blame the cs pension on ron, good only knows how it would have turned out if the government never framed him,

Roflmao

maybe the money wouldnt have been so heavy in the tech market when it crashed? But say what you will ron carey had the biggest set any union leader has ever had,

Having a big set in mob circles is a must. It takes a little more then having a big set to run any organization including a union.

and we benefited from that, similar to hoffa sr, he didnt do everything legal, but he did it to benefit the teamsters.

end justifies the means?

Maybe one day a carey will run again and rebuild the teamsters, until then we need to tuck our tails between our legs and just take it!

maybe. In the meantime Hoffa might end up being the guy that actually fixed the pensions. If so thats negotiations not anatomy that did it for him. If you want anatomy then you guys should run around in loincloths and show each other your "sets". If you want to fix the pensions then you have to be willing to sit down and talk about the choices. Carey ran for the door. Hoffa listened. The one common denominator in both negotiations has been hall. So it seems when you try to draw a line between carey and hoffa you have to ask yourself why hall who negotiated for carey also negoatiated for hoffa. maybe just maybe hall sees hoffas approach as being the better one.

Does this not tell all of us hourlies all that we need to know in order to vote the right way. TIEGUY, A.K.A. (management) is worshipping, defending, supporting Hoffa Jr., A.K.A. IBT president.
What is wrong with that picture?
I don't know but if management is pushing it this hard, it can't be good for us hourlies!!!

 

[one of the few]

way back when ups could of paid i dont know lets say 900 million for the cs pension then we went on strike for all ,u the co couldnt beat carey so we went out.the co said it was a carey strike as they r sayn 2 us 2day. *** was up.now ups has to pay 6 billion for the same deal or they will get a penalty after jan 1,thats right for our plans...i dont know...is it for our good ...or the company?GROW A SET OF BALLS..LETS MAKE EM PAY

 

[one of the few]

Watch The Taemster Video...alot Of Men And Women Paid A Big Price To Give Us What We Have 2 Day.dont Let I Go In Vain..we R Strong ..we R Many ...we R Teamsters..stay United

 

[one of the few]

AND ENG 79 AT EASE AT CALLN THE RANK AND FILE STUPID...for we r not!if we r giving the info we can and will make a decision on r own not the smoke blown up our asses.if the leadership is for us and we trust it,and it proves worthy..chk my sppl i am a trk driver..we shall make a decision that will not only benifit us the teamsters...but the company that in which we represent...if oz nelson was still around,he would be embarassed of what has become of this.HONESTY....FAIR TREATMENT...

 

[one of the few]

and tie guy talk about solidarity...camon man...i seen supervision cut each others throats over bs....divide and conquere that is the company way..they will not divide us..only try to fill us with false info and trick members that do not know better..like the new guys,which is our...the unions fault...for not gettn the word out for how evil the company was...and how evil the company still is.it is a shame but it is the truth

 

[brazenbrown]

way back when ups could of paid i dont know lets say 900 million for the cs pension then we went on strike for all ,u the co couldnt beat carey so we went out.the co said it was a carey strike as they r sayn 2 us 2day. *** was up.now ups has to pay 6 billion for the same deal or they will get a penalty after jan 1,thats right for our plans...i dont know...is it for our good ...or the company?GROW A SET OF BALLS..LETS MAKE EM PAY

GROW A BRAIN!!!

THEY PAY, WE PAY AND THEN WE DON'T GET PAID!

Business 101

 

[tieguy]

Tie, You did not write one thing to debate the points I made. Are you conceding that I am right?

No the system locked up when I posted my response.

 

[tieguy]

Where can we reaad all these nice things UPS suits are saying about Hoffa? I haven't seen or heard any, other than what tie said. Do you have some proof of this I


I'm not sure I really said anything nice about Hoffa. I might have but I doubt it. I just find it hilarious watching you guys try try to seperate yourselves from the union now that the contract offer is out. Here you pay all these BA's to go out and negotiate specific things you asked them to fight for and when they bring you what you asked them for you try to disown them. Management can learn alot about cut throat tactics from you guys.

 

[govols019]

That makes about as much sense as saying people that don't agree with George Bush must not love America.

 

[tieguy]

The only winner in this buyout is UPS. If this passes, UPS will save billions over the next few years.

If you don't believe CS and the teamsters are benifiting then you don't understand the issue at all.

Right now, UPS contributes $238 per week per employee into the CS pension fund,but under the new UPS/IBT plan, UPS will contribute only $132 per week.

If so how much of that 238 is actually going to a upser? bet its a lot less then the 132 number you throw out there. Did you conviently forget to add in the 6.1 billion the company is also throwing out there?

Is UPS bailing us out, or looking at the bottom line? Also, under the proposed "new deal", if UPS contributes more each following year, then why is the 30-and-out pension frozen at $3000 per month? Logically, if UPS puts in more each year, shouldn't we receive more? The cost of living goes up each year, so every successive year, the $3000 is worth that much less. Granted,

Your point is not logical. You have to understand ups is not paying the pension amount. The pension run by 5 of yours and 5 or mine will be running it. At that point disbursment will be dictated by federal law, insurance mandates and those 10 people.

CS is a financial mess and can not sustain its present course before the fund goes into insolvancy.

Its good you choose to acknowledge this point.

On the other hand, if we go into this new UPS/IBT fund, there is no guarantee after age 65. UPS only guarantees the pension money ($3000 for 30 and out) until age 65, but what happens afterwards?

Is there a lesser guarantee if you stay on the sinking tugboat? You want ups to guarantee their money and CS's money? UPS is trying to wash their hands of CS . They did not create that nightmare.

Without any future UPS money going into CS, the pension fund will drain faster than before. It is inevitable that CS will not be able to pay its share,

Who knows tougher regulations kick in during january 2008 that may help the plan or hurt the plan. That you can't control. But UPS setting up a seperate co-administered plan has to be a positive.

UPS will not make up the difference, and the retiree has even less to live on.

thats where the pbgc insurance should be kicking in not UPS.

UPS will continue to save big money by not contributing as much into our retirement fund. The only fair solution is for UPS to guarantee the money at any age, as well as add a cost of living increase by the guidelines set by the US government's consumer price index statistics. I await a rebuttal.

again you ignore the 6.1 billion. the cost of creating a new pension plan. the cost of administering our half of it. Pretty generous effort by ups. You expect them to be the insurance underwriter for cs. Thank Ron carey its in the shape its in now. we could have fixed it ten years ago.

 

[govols019]

So, Carey alone is at fault? That's what you keep saying.

Please show the numbers explaining the dire financial straits that CS was in in 1997.