Seniority...... who's got what???

[Feederquacker]

Just a simple question... what do you have where you are? Company seniority or classification seniority? Here in Georgia we bid routes and feeder runs by classification seniority as well as our vacations. It's been a hot button issue here for a while since lots of our older Package boys have come over to Feeder in the last ten years. I get that they don't like being behind a guy who has ten years less with the company than he does but I didn't write the contract. They get pissed and tell me that next contract it will change and they will get their rightful place. As if it will be retroactive. Sure!!!! And the company will start paying us $100 a minute too. Now, what keeps being brought up is, the ones that are so pissed about it keep saying that we are the only ones in the country that have Classification instead of Company seniority. Now our supplement covers TX, LA, AR, OK, MS, AL, GA, and FL. That's a lot of area for us to be the only ones. So, I was wondering if any other regions had the same set up?

Honestly, I get it, but, I've been hearing this for the last three contracts. I figure if it happens, everyone will be red circled or grandfathered in where the are. That also is being thrown around as an impossibility.(don't know why)

Now please don't tell me how awful we are to have this or that I'm being unfair. As I said, I didn't write the contract and they voted on it to pass.

 

[over9five]

Good topic. Made it a poll for ya!

 

[oldupsman]

I never even knew there was anything but company seniority until this issue came up on here. To me the whole idea
of seniority is to get an easier job as you get older to get your time in. And in my local you went into feeders as you got
older because it is easier on the body. Please don't misunderstand. I'm not saying feeder driving is easy. It has it's
whole set of issues. Just easier on the body.

But in my region you dovetailed onto any seniority list no matter what job you took. Same with picking vacations.
There are no restrictions on when you take your time. If you're senior and you want to take off 6 weeks in a row
in summer, you took it.

I can't even fathom classification seniority. To me it"s defeating the whole purpose of seniority.

 

[Feederquacker]

Good topic. Made it a poll for ya!

Thank you

 

[East coast navy]

Just a simple question... what do you have where you are? Company seniority or classification seniority? Here in Georgia we bid routes and feeder runs by classification seniority as well as our vacations. It's been a hot button issue here for a while since lots of our older Package boys have come over to Feeder in the last ten years. I get that they don't like being behind a guy who has ten years less with the company than he does but I didn't write the contract. They get and tell me that next contract it will change and they will get their rightful place. As if it will be retroactive. Sure!!!! And the company will start paying us $100 a minute too. Now, what keeps being brought up is, the ones that are so about it keep saying that we are the only ones in the country that have Classification instead of Company seniority. Now our supplement covers TX, LA, AR, OK, MS, AL, GA, and FL. That's a lot of area for us to be the only ones. So, I was wondering if any other regions had the same set up?

Honestly, I get it, but, I've been hearing this for the last three contracts. I figure if it happens, everyone will be red circled or grandfathered in where the are. That also is being thrown around as an impossibility.(don't know why)

Now please don't tell me how awful we are to have this or that I'm being unfair. As I said, I didn't write the contract and they voted on it to pass.

Local 177 has classification seniority... That's north jersey.. There is a big movement to change it in local 177... If there is big numbers in your local to change the rule, then it will happen... It's not easy to do... It takes a lot of work.. It's harder to campaign for then campaigning to run against a local... Good look on which side you are on.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Local 177 has classification seniority... That's north jersey.. There is a big movement to change it in local 177... If there is big numbers in your local to change the rule, then it will happen... It's not easy to do... It takes a lot of work.. It's harder to campaign for then campaigning to run against a local... Good look on which side you are on.

Is the vote by simple majority or is there a % that it has to pass by in order for the change to be made?

 

[Feederquacker]

Local 177 has classification seniority... That's north jersey.. There is a big movement to change it in local 177... If there is big numbers in your local to change the rule, then it will happen... It's not easy to do... It takes a lot of work.. It's harder to campaign for then campaigning to run against a local... Good look on which side you are on.

I agree that if it gains enough support then it should pass. But, do you dismantle the current seniority lists or red circle everyone where they are?

 

[PT Car Washer]

Neither. The company does whatever they want to with the Unions approval.

 

[oldupsman]

I agree that if it gains enough support then it should pass. But, do you dismantle the current seniority lists or red circle everyone where they are?

I would think that if people are voting for the change they would want it to take effect immediately.
No red circle.

 

[Feederquacker]

I would think that if people are voting for the change they would want it to take effect immediately.
No red circle.

Ok... so those drivers in Feeder that have been there for 25-30 years and have made it to the top of the seniority list get told that some inside people or Package drivers that have been with the company longer get to leapfrog them? I have a hard time with that idea. I've been told that when they switched in South Carolina back in the 60's, they red circled everyone. At this point there are no red circles left so it's all Company time. The idea is that all these people that have that amount of time have had the opportunity to make the change. They didn't have a problem with things the way the were until it didn't get them what they wanted.

Anyway, keep the info coming. This is coming along great!

 

[rod]

Interesting. I never though about the 2 different ways. We always had a Company seniority policy but for the most part the feeder drivers were the top senior employees anyway. We NEVER had a feeder driver want to come back to package. Nobody is that stupid.

 

[oldupsman]

Ok... so those drivers in Feeder that have been there for 25-30 years and have made it to the top of the seniority list get told that some inside people or Package drivers that have been with the company longer get to leapfrog them? I have a hard time with that idea. I've been told that when they switched in South Carolina back in the 60's, they red circled everyone. At this point there are no red circles left so it's all Company time. The idea is that all these people that have that amount of time have had the opportunity to make the change. They didn't have a problem with things the way the were until it didn't get them what they wanted.

Anyway, keep the info coming. This is coming along great!

Well gee, how many people you have in the building you're talking about have 25 to 30 years. If you have 25 to 30 years in
you're going to be near the top of any seniority list. Now I don't know how big a building you're talking about.
And we still had separate seniority lists for package car and feeders.

Example. My building had 4 centers in package. Each center had it's own list. In feeders we had 2 lists. Basically it was
broken down into feeders who did local work and feeders who drove over the road. Any driving bid that came up in the building
was posted. The bid went to the senior man. If it was package and in a different center he simply dovetailed into that centers list.
Of course any feeder bid that went up you had a to have a CDL to qualify. But alot of feeder guys jumped back and forth all the time
between their 2 lists depending on the bid.

When the company ran a training school for package guys to get their CDL, usually in the spring, and they passed they were assigned
to the list where they needed help. Now there was a qualification period that those guys had to complete. Some guys didn't like
it and went back to package. But the guys who stayed dovetailed onto the list.

Interesting. I never though about the 2 different ways. We always had a Company seniority policy but for the most part the feeder drivers were the top senior employees anyway. We NEVER had a feeder driver want to come back to package. Nobody is that stupid.

Didn't happen often but it did sometimes. Usually guys bid back to package because of a family situation. Like illness, someone wanted
to see their kid play sports, or trying to save a marriage.

 

[Feederquacker]

Well gee, how many people you have in the building you're talking about have 25 to 30 years. If you have 25 to 30 years in
you're going to be near the top of any seniority list. Now I don't know how big a building you're talking about.
And we still had separate seniority lists for package car and feeders.

Example. My building had 4 centers in package. Each center had it's own list. In feeders we had 2 lists. Basically it was
broken down into feeders who did local work and feeders who drove over the road. Any driving bid that came up in the building
was posted. The bid went to the senior man. If it was package and in a different center he simply dovetailed into that centers list.
Of course any feeder bid that went up you had a to have a CDL to qualify. But alot of feeder guys jumped back and forth all the time
between their 2 lists depending on the bid.

When the company ran a training school for package guys to get their CDL, usually in the spring, and they passed they were assigned
to the list where they needed help. Now there was a qualification period that those guys had to complete. Some guys didn't like
it and went back to package. But the guys who stayed dovetailed onto the list.





Didn't happen often but it did sometimes. Usually guys bid back to package because of a family situation. Like illness, someone wanted
to see their kid play sports, or trying to save a marriage.

Well, the top third of our list in Feeder has over 28yrs each. Our top third of Package does as well. We have ten or so Feeder drivers that came over in the last ten years all that have over thirty and they are at the bottom of the list. Theorehtically those guys at the bottom could jump to the top by not red circling. Our top senior Feeder driver would essentially be knocked back several spots even though he has over 35yrs in Feeder. I wouldn't think it would foster a sense of unity if this happened.

 

[oldupsman]

Well, the top third of our list in Feeder has over 28yrs each. Our top third of Package does as well. We have ten or so Feeder drivers that came over in the last ten years all that have over thirty and they are at the bottom of the list. Theorehtically those guys at the bottom could jump to the top by not red circling. Our top senior Feeder driver would essentially be knocked back several spots even though he has over 35yrs in Feeder. I wouldn't think it would foster a sense of unity if this happened.

Well whenever there is change there are strong feelings. Obviously this is the way it has always been for you folks. Just curious,
what brought about the challenge to your system.

 

[East coast navy]

I agree that if it gains enough support then it should pass. But, do you dismantle the current seniority lists or red circle everyone where they are?

If the majority of members want to regain and retain their seniority then a red line wouldn't happen because the majority didn't want it...

A union is based under a Democracy system that can only be fair based on what members want as a majority...

So if a group of members in this type of system would want a red line, hopefully they are the majority or the majority will want it with them to allow it.

 

[East coast navy]

Is the vote by simple majority or is there a % that it has to pass by in order for the change to be made?

Simple.

 

[over9five]

What kind of spawn of Satan came up with classification seniority anyhow?
Had to come from the company to conquer and divide. Had to be some kind of deal.

 

[East coast navy]

Ok... so those drivers in Feeder that have been there for 25-30 years and have made it to the top of the seniority list get told that some inside people or Package drivers that have been with the company longer get to leapfrog them? I have a hard time with that idea. I've been told that when they switched in South Carolina back in the 60's, they red circled everyone. At this point there are no red circles left so it's all Company time. The idea is that all these people that have that amount of time have had the opportunity to make the change. They didn't have a problem with things the way the were until it didn't get them what they wanted.

Anyway, keep the info coming. This is coming along great!

You have to start some where.

 

[East coast navy]

Well, the top third of our list in Feeder has over 28yrs each. Our top third of Package does as well. We have ten or so Feeder drivers that came over in the last ten years all that have over thirty and they are at the bottom of the list. Theorehtically those guys at the bottom could jump to the top by not red circling. Our top senior Feeder driver would essentially be knocked back several spots even though he has over 35yrs in Feeder. I wouldn't think it would foster a sense of unity if this happened.

Classification seniority should never be in the same sentence as unions.

 

[East coast navy]

What kind of spawn of Satan came up with classification seniority anyhow?
Had to come from the company to conquer and divide. Had to be some kind of deal.

In local 177, it was made by a off the street feeder member that became a elected official.