so did obama just screw our 2013 contract? (health care)

[klein]

Tie you sound like a driver that just had his route relooped and going out with the new diad 5 today without any training Give it a chance and lets see how it works before dismissing it. Alot of people have put their careers on the line to pass this bill.

On a serious note Tie, have you ever seen the movie John Q? A family struggling to get by, but they keep on trying. They refuse handouts and wont apply for Gov assistance, and when the fathers hours get cut from 40 down to 20 his insurance gets lowered without him even knowing it. But when his son needs a life saving surgery, even though hes paid his bills and kept current on his medical he is denied. If I have to pat a little more to ensure that someone like this can receive the treatment they need than in all for it.

It really hits home when your in the hospital with your own kids and the Dr's dont know whats the matter. I can tell everyone not one time did I ever question that if our insurance would cover this or cover that. Now I could not imagine having to have that worry along with my sick son.

Tie your insurance was good enough to pick up most of teh tab on your Heart surgery, imagine not having that insurance. Where would you be? The burden that puts on families should not have to happen. IMO

What Tie left out, actually. Is the younger ones require more hospital visits then the middle aged ones. They do sports, (broken bones), speed on streets and highways (more accidents), and are dare devils in basically anything. From mountain climbing, to alcohol or drug poisening. They constribute a larger burden on healthcare as thier parents do.
Same as small children. Every city has a childrens hospital. From allergies, to breaks and falls, to severe colds and fevers.

Yes, the older people take a burden on health expenses , too. But, by then they are already covered under Medicare.
Tie, just doesn't have his facts straight.

 

[DS]

Hold on sparky! We live in a COUNTRY that says land of FREE home of the BRAVE. How did we get title? Because we fought for it and earned it. Anyone and everyone was welcomed. I can tell you that when our founding fathers wrote the Constitution at that time everyone had the right to medical treatments. Dr's even made house calls. Do you think that if England was refusing us mediacl treatment back then, it would not have been covered than?

I have seen people die because they could not afford the treatment,and that doesnt seem right and a big part of me says everone should have healthcare.You know that old saying "lifes not fair"really applies here when you think about it ,some people have medical care and some dont, thats life just like some people are rich some are poor .really sucks but thats the way it is ,hard to really say how i feel about it but alot of this seems to be a way of making everyone equal but thats another word for socialism,everyone does not have the same entitlements.what i would like to see in healthcare reform would maybe be coverage for people with life threating conditions or children under the age of 18,now im not smart enough to figure out how to make that work or i wouldnt move boxes for a living.

705 sparky? This guy is not putting down your country,he is merely stating that every citizen should not be denied health care if they need it.I know its a big change in policy for the USA but I also think that if they had done it when we did in the LBJ days,the problem would not exist.I also take offence that you think of us as a socialist country.The only thing we do differently is health care,that is paid with our taxes instead of buying your own plan.I know a lot of you have put thousands of $ into it over the years and it burns your ass to eat that,but I think free healthcare for every citizen should be right in there with all those other amendments.This gives every American the right to take your son to the hospital when he breaks his leg skateboarding ,or when gramma breaks her hip and you already paid for it.Its the most civilized thing to do.
4life,its not that hard,although it may take a few years,and unfortunately you will still have to move boxes for a living.

 

[SWORDFISH]

Red I'm sure someone on the Nazi side of things also told doubters to give Hitler a chance for the same reasons.

In this case though I'm commenting on the sales approach used to sell this bill. I'm sure you have your people who need health care. they will now be forced to go out and buy that health care with the promise of tax credits to help them pay for it.
I guess the question I would have is where will they find the cash to pay for it when they never had it in the first place.

I'm also commenting on the war on the greedy insurance companies and how this bill actually helps insurance companies profits. Obama sold the classwarfare message to stick it to insurance companies only to help their bottom line.

You couldn't write a movie that is more entertaining then the BS coming out of the white house.

Three votes passed this bill. Is this bill really a good thing for america if they could not get all the demcrats to vote for it?

Never thought I would find myself saying this Tie but +1

 

[Ptrunner]

Red I'm sure someone on the Nazi side of things also told doubters to give Hitler a chance for the same reasons.

In this case though I'm commenting on the sales approach used to sell this bill. I'm sure you have your people who need health care. they will now be forced to go out and buy that health care with the promise of tax credits to help them pay for it.
I guess the question I would have is where will they find the cash to pay for it when they never had it in the first place.

I'm also commenting on the war on the greedy insurance companies and how this bill actually helps insurance companies profits. Obama sold the classwarfare message to stick it to insurance companies only to help their bottom line.

You couldn't write a movie that is more entertaining then the BS coming out of the white house.

Three votes passed this bill. Is this bill really a good thing for america if they could not get all the demcrats to vote for it?

I actually agree with Tie on this one. Its funny how insurance stocks have gone through the roof since Obama has announced his insurance plan. Everyone knows the insurance industry won big by this. Put your money in an insurance stock now, watch by 2014 itll be double because theyll have profits coming out of their arse because of the fishiness of this bill.

Red i agree we do need some kind of public option for all children to not let the events of John Q happen. The way Obama did it, wasnt the best way. I know you say, lets just wait and thats good but initial thoughts clearly say the insurance companies won big time. Now for helping out kids in poor families, well see. But this all could be a ploy to keep us more in debt because our country loves being in debt.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

I am by no means up on on the information as to what this healthcare bill includes. There were a few points that I could grasp:

Children would be covered under their parents insurance to the age of 24.

Insurance companies will no longer deny coverage for previous conditions.

Insurance companies couldn't cancel your policy when cost of treatment of serious injury or illness.

In 2014 a fine to anyone who doesnt have insurance.

All of the above will do nothing but increase costs accross the board, and we all know who will pay for that. I think there are some good points to this bill, but it isn't quite finished yet. If the powers that be in Washington would stop bickering and get along, maybe there will be progress. Yea right!! One can dream...

Your children could be covered under your insurance plan until age 26. I believe this is voluntary not mandatory. I

 

[705red]

Red I'm sure someone on the Nazi side of things also told doubters to give Hitler a chance for the same reasons.

Thats a little low, even coming from you Tie. Comparing Obama to Hitlers reign of terror.

In this case though I'm commenting on the sales approach used to sell this bill. I'm sure you have your people who need health care. they will now be forced to go out and buy that health care with the promise of tax credits to help them pay for it.
I guess the question I would have is where will they find the cash to pay for it when they never had it in the first place.

Tie I will admit, I have not sat down and read everything on this bill. Depending on who you watch, Fox, NBC etc some say the bill is great some say it will ruin America. What I do know is we have to start somewhere. The system is broke, at no time should anyone ever be refused treatment because they do not have insurance. If they work, or are looking for work and trying to find employment they should have the right to presecription drugs and a Dr.

I'm also commenting on the war on the greedy insurance companies and how this bill actually helps insurance companies profits. Obama sold the classwarfare message to stick it to insurance companies only to help their bottom line.

Whats all the talk about single payer for then? I thought that ruined insurance companies?
You couldn't write a movie that is more entertaining then the BS coming out of the white house.


This is a one of teh reasons I stay away from arguing politics. You will defend a sup at UPS for almost anything, even if you know they are wrong, but when you get a chance you slam the President of the USA. SOmething is really wrong here!

Three votes passed this bill. Is this bill really a good thing for america if they could not get all the demcrats to vote for it?

The vote passes with the majority, 1 is enough to pass it. But since you asked I will tell you that all 34 democrats that voted no got less than 40 of the votes for Obama in the presidential election. I dont agree, if you are for it or against it vote what you believe, not to secure your future.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

Would you care to share teh side effects of this bill? Or would you rather slam Obama beofre we see how the bill works itself out?

Health care is not a luxury! Evevryone gets sick and needs to see a doctor, not everyone needs to eat lobster in order to survive.

Everyone on this site has held UPS medical and has taken benefits for granted for as long as we have worked there. Ask the retirees how good there benefits are now.

Go sit at a CVS or walgreens for 8 hours and see how much people pay out of pocket for scripts. And then go rent the movie John Q.

Then comeback here and tell me thta you dont care about people that dont have insurance.

AGREED 100% Everyone who is complaining or against the plan, have never been in the position to choose between food or prescription... We here in UPS and many other companies have so much to be thankful for - best benefits, choice of the best doctors, medical care etc. We as a society are responsible to make sure all Americans have the same choice... Give the plan a chance - I am convinced it will be for the better. I am tired of those who say "just wait and see what you will be paying".

 

[Red Rose Tea]

705 sparky? This guy is not putting down your country,he is merely stating that every citizen should not be denied health care if they need it.I know its a big change in policy for the USA but I also think that if they had done it when we did in the LBJ days,the problem would not exist.I also take offence that you think of us as a socialist country.The only thing we do differently is health care,that is paid with our taxes instead of buying your own plan.I know a lot of you have put thousands of $ into it over the years and it burns your ass to eat that,but I think free healthcare for every citizen should be right in there with all those other amendments.This gives every American the right to take your son to the hospital when he breaks his leg skateboarding ,or when gramma breaks her hip and you already paid for it.Its the most civilized thing to do.
4life,its not that hard,although it may take a few years,and unfortunately you will still have to move boxes for a living.[/qQUOTE]


Yes, we live in a civilized - supposedly the richest country in the world - society. And still not everyone has the right to medical care. As a society, its the right way to go. People in general are scared of change - for many this so radical. If they would just sit back, relax and wait and see. We all have to pay taxes if we want to live in a civilized society. I pay real estate tax, for example, part of those taxes pays for public education. But I dont have kids now in public school. Thats the cost of living together and paying to keep our communities from crumbling. EVERYONE has the right to medical care - and yes maybe that should be in the constitution...

 

[Red Rose Tea]

705 sparky? This guy is not putting down your country,he is merely stating that every citizen should not be denied health care if they need it.I know its a big change in policy for the USA but I also think that if they had done it when we did in the LBJ days,the problem would not exist.I also take offence that you think of us as a socialist country.The only thing we do differently is health care,that is paid with our taxes instead of buying your own plan.I know a lot of you have put thousands of $ into it over the years and it burns your ass to eat that,but I think free healthcare for every citizen should be right in there with all those other amendments.This gives every American the right to take your son to the hospital when he breaks his leg skateboarding ,or when gramma breaks her hip and you already paid for it.Its the most civilized thing to do.
4life,its not that hard,although it may take a few years,and unfortunately you will still have to move boxes for a living.[/qQUOTE]


Yes, we live in a civilized - supposedly the richest country in the world - society. And still not everyone has the right to medical care. As a society, its the right way to go. People in general are scared of change - for many this is so radical. If they would just sit back, relax and wait and see. We all have to pay taxes if we want to live in a civilized society. I pay real estate tax, for example, part of those taxes pays for public education. But I dont have kids now in public school. Thats the cost of living together and paying to keep our communities from crumbling. EVERYONE has the right to medical care - and yes maybe that should be in the constitution...

 

[705red]

so doctors worked for free back then somebody had to pay for that house call.what it should say is land of the RICH home of the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR.thats what everthing is always about,washington and obama could give a crap about people who die because thay dont have insurance,in the end someones getting paid on this and it sure aint you or me ,believe that.

Why, because you said so? What was there to pay for back then? The Dr. rode his wagon to the farm or when he was in town he visited when he was sent for. Back then people actually did it to help people. Now people become Dr's for the money. Do you care if soomeone has to bury a family member that would not have had to happen if only they could have afforded an antibiotic?

 

[Red Rose Tea]

so doctors worked for free back then somebody had to pay for that house call.what it should say is land of the RICH home of the ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR.thats what everthing is always about,washington and obama could give a crap about people who die because thay dont have insurance,in the end someones getting paid on this and it sure aint you or me ,believe that.

My grandfather was a dentist back then. When patients came with dental problems and said "Can I pay you later?" He ALWAYS said "of course". NOBODY ever paid him for these services - no insurance companies, no government aid. Back then doctors treated patients not for the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR but for the belief in the hippocratic oath. Hopefully this health care reform will eventually succeed in weeding out those in the medical community who are in it only for the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.

 

[trickpony1]

My grandfather was a dentist back then. When patients came with dental problems and said "Can I pay you later?" He ALWAYS said "of course". NOBODY ever paid him for these services - no insurance companies, no government aid. Back then doctors treated patients not for the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR but for the belief in the hippocratic oath. Hopefully this health care reform will eventually succeed in weeding out those in the medical community who are in it only for the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR.

I'm not for or against your post but........

....would you drive your truck, or whatever it is you do at work, for free?

I don't think I would.

 

[Red Rose Tea]

I'm not for or against your post but........

....would you drive your truck, or whatever it is you do at work, for free?

I don't think I would.

Of course not... No one works for free. Back in the 1930's -1940's people in the medical profession weren't the richest in society. Many went into the medical profession for the passion to help others not to get rich off of the backs of the sick. Medical care, doctor salaries, pharmaceutical profits etc have skyrocketed way out of control. Should a doctor look at your knee for a total of 2 minutes and bill your insurance $275.00???
My grandfather, of course, charged for his services, but if someone couldn't pay he didn't refuse to treat them.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Tea, you should also remember that back then it was not uncommon for a patient to barter with their doctor or to offer goods or services in lieu of cash payment. For example, if the patient were a carpenter, he may offer to do some carpentry work for the doctor if he was unable to pay him in cash.

 

[Blizzard]

My concern may be that Insurance companies will now either raise the rates or cut back on the services to get around these laws. We underestimate corporations. They will find a way to avoid this intrusion on their profitability. I think we may all be paying more soon since our plan has to qualify as one of the better ones. Common sense tells you that efforts to take from the rich to pay for the poor will result in our paying more. Will those who now benefit from our generosity at least come over to cut our grass or in some way thank us? I don't think so.

 

[UPSGUY72]

Their will be side effects to Obama Care for all of us..It should ride him out of town in 2012..

Yes we will see a Republican in the WH in 2012

 

[thelus]

Well only time will tell what this bill will do. Everyone said the stimulus plan will suck but I'm noticing a savings in tires and new rims becuase the roads in illinois are being finally fixed. if in 5 years this bill sucks the democrats will have to worry about elections, if how ever it does work I see the republicans going the way of the wig party and a another party coming into the spotlight

 

[Blizzard]

Well only time will tell what this bill will do. Everyone said the stimulus plan will suck but I'm noticing a savings in tires and new rims becuase the roads in illinois are being finally fixed. if in 5 years this bill sucks the democrats will have to worry about elections, if how ever it does work I see the republicans going the way of the wig party and a another party coming into the spotlight

how many tires and rims were you buying before the stimulus money fixed your roads. How much did you save? I'm just thinking we should compare the 800 billion your tax dollars will pay for to your savings for tires and rims to see if the cost was worth it?

 

[Lue C Fur]

If anyone is interested, you can go to the current events forum where there is an "Obamacare" thread since it seems the original post has went a different direction:

 

[SWORDFISH]

Of course not... No one works for free. Back in the 1930's -1940's people in the medical profession weren't the richest in society. Many went into the medical profession for the passion to help others not to get rich off of the backs of the sick. Medical care, doctor salaries, pharmaceutical profits etc have skyrocketed way out of control. Should a doctor look at your knee for a total of 2 minutes and bill your insurance $275.00???
My grandfather, of course, charged for his services, but if someone couldn't pay he didn't refuse to treat them.

Actually alot of Doctors dont make the big bucks people think. For one malpractice insurance kills them cuz as a society we allow the most rediculous lawsuits in the world 2nd they are taught to bill as if your only going to get 60% of what you bill for. My other half works in the industry thats why I know these things.
As far as Im concerned anyone can have the AMERICAN SICK CARE SYSTEM. Its more of a business where people are just $$ signs. I do like reds point about the JOHN Q deal though. I would love for emergency medical to be available to all(well I guess they dont consider that emergency but I do). I dont however believe that drugs,prescription drugs, flu shots and so on should be available to all. If people want to waste thier money on that stuff waste your own. If people only knew what that stuff actually does to them they wouldnt take it. Obama must have the big drug companys padding his pockets for passing this bill. Toast to a sicker America.