so did obama just screw our 2013 contract? (health care)

[tieguy]

Next point

any company with 50 or more employees can pay a fine of 2000 a year per employee per year if their employees draw federal subsidies to pay for health care.
A plan like ours costs the company approximately 8000 to 10000 a year per employee per year.
So in this plan there is a financial incentive to dump their employees on the federal subsidy program pay the fine which is much cheaper and take the savings in profits.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Using Tie's numbers and based upon 200,000 employees:

200,000 x 2,000 = $4 billion in fines

200,000 x 6,000 = $12 billion saved (based on $8,000 per employee per year minus $2,000 fine)

200,000 x 8,000 = $16 billion saved (based on $10,000 per employee per year minus $2,000 fine)

UPS could then give these 200,000 employees a generous wage increase to help offset their cost of having to purchase insurance and would still realize a substantial savings.

 

[tieguy]

Using Tie's numbers and based upon 200,000 employees:

200,000 x 2,000 = $4 billion in fines

200,000 x 6,000 = $12 billion saved (based on $8,000 per employee per year minus $2,000 fine)

200,000 x 8,000 = $16 billion saved (based on $10,000 per employee per year minus $2,000 fine)

UPS could then give these 200,000 employees a generous wage increase to help offset their cost of having to purchase insurance and would still realize a substantial savings.

I don't see a ups dumping their health plans.

However the business with 70 employees that can not afford health care for their employees will pay the fine instead. The employees will then be obligated to pay for their own health insurance or risk paying their fines.
here again if your health care costs 400 a month and the fine is 600 a year then you will pay the fine.

What the government did was find a way to increase tax's on the small business owners and the poor to moderate wage earner.

 

[klein]

Next point

any company with 50 or more employees can pay a fine of 2000 a year per employee per year if their employees draw federal subsidies to pay for health care.
A plan like ours costs the company approximately 8000 to 10000 a year per employee per year.
So in this plan there is a financial incentive to dump their employees on the federal subsidy program pay the fine which is much cheaper and take the savings in profits.

Whats the current fine now, for taking tax writeoffs for insurance, and not actually paying those ?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Whats the current fine now, for taking tax writeoffs for insurance, and not actually paying those ?

I think the answer to that question is above the pay grade of anyone posting here.

 

[Jones]

All this talk about what's going to happen, good or bad, how business's are going to respond, yadayada, is really just speculation because no one (on BC anyway) really has a clue. And pretty much any opinion piece you read in the paper right now is just going to be a spin doctor trying to get out in front of it and score points for one side or the other. It's probably going to be at least 4-6 months before we start to get a real idea of how it's going to affect each of us individually, and of course that's just my opinion cuz I really don't have a clue either

 

[blue efficacy]

I don't see a ups dumping their health plans.

However the business with 70 employees that can not afford health care for their employees will pay the fine instead. The employees will then be obligated to pay for their own health insurance or risk paying their fines.
here again if your health care costs 400 a month and the fine is 600 a year then you will pay the fine.

What the government did was find a way to increase tax's on the small business owners and the poor to moderate wage earner.

Just because the fine is cheaper than the coverage doesn't mean the coverage is undesirable. You are assuming that no worker or company would take the more expensive coverage vs the less expensive fine. This would be a valid assumption only if a health care offered no value.

Unfortunately for your stance a lot of people would be willing to pay money for a health plan.

 

[tieguy]

All this talk about what's going to happen, good or bad, how business's are going to respond, yadayada, is really just speculation because no one (on BC anyway) really has a clue. And pretty much any opinion piece you read in the paper right now is just going to be a spin doctor trying to get out in front of it and score points for one side or the other. It's probably going to be at least 4-6 months before we start to get a real idea of how it's going to affect each of us individually, and of course that's just my opinion cuz I really don't have a clue either

Jones I'm posting links with all my speculative dialogue. when you get done caressing Obamas rear with your allegedly conservative lips then feel feel to do some research and post your thoughts.

 

[blue efficacy]

I disagree respectfully w/ both of you in the long run anyway. You of course need it till you can slowly get away from it. I believe all forms can be overcome. There is alot of stuff out there that people dont know about. My dad actually was diagnosed w/ diabetes and is now free of it. Where theres a will theres a way. Im more of a believer in medicine to save your life and then finding a way to live w/ out it. I would encourage you guys to do alot of your own studying outside what the doctor says. Sorry to hear you both have it though I have seen some of the scary situations that can happen. Definetly wouldnt wish them on anybody.

Yes there is a magical way to restore my destroyed insulin producing beta cells, and the doctors just don't know about it! I think it's a coverup, a conspiracy to make the doctors and pharma money.

People actually believe this.

 

[tieguy]

Just because the fine is cheaper than the coverage doesn't mean the coverage is undesirable. You are assuming that no worker or company would take the more expensive coverage vs the less expensive fine. This would be a valid assumption only if a health care offered no value.

Unfortunately for your stance a lot of people would be willing to pay money for a health plan.

the problem with your argument is there is nothing stopping them from doing that now.

Again if you could not reach into your pocket and pull the money out to pay for it before how will tax credits now help you generate that cash?

If you're a small business owner and you can't afford health care for your employees then paying the 2000 instead of the 10000 is the cheaper option.

 

[klein]

I don't see a ups dumping their health plans.

However the business with 70 employees that can not afford health care for their employees will pay the fine instead. The employees will then be obligated to pay for their own health insurance or risk paying their fines.
here again if your health care costs 400 a month and the fine is 600 a year then you will pay the fine.

What the government did was find a way to increase tax's on the small business owners and the poor to moderate wage earner.

Is that even mandatory, for every small business to pay for health insurance as of now ? just wondering. I haven't read up on it , since it doesn't effect me.
But, soo many assumptions going around, and if everyone of those came true, you might as well pack up, and leave now.

 

[SWORDFISH]

Using Tie's numbers and based upon 200,000 employees:

200,000 x 2,000 = $4 billion in fines

200,000 x 6,000 = $12 billion saved (based on $8,000 per employee per year minus $2,000 fine)

200,000 x 8,000 = $16 billion saved (based on $10,000 per employee per year minus $2,000 fine)

UPS could then give these 200,000 employees a generous wage increase to help offset their cost of having to purchase insurance and would still realize a substantial savings.

upstate, your assuming that UPS can get us to agree to a new contract w/ out our current benefits. They cant just say they are not providing something they have contractually agreed to. Also your assuming that the system they pushed through will not get changed.

 

[bogeyball]

I see you are from Chicago.....say no more. I don't think anyone said they didn't care. But what BHO is doing is so unpopular with the American people (70%) but they do not care. This is about power and nothing more.

 

[SWORDFISH]

Yes there is a magical way to restore my destroyed insulin producing beta cells, and the doctors just don't know about it! I think it's a coverup, a conspiracy to make the doctors and pharma money.

People actually believe this.

LOL...... good one. I have not researched it enough to give you good info about it and plus you dont care. Kind of funny to me that UPS drivers cant see that the drug industry wants to keep people on drugs forever. We deliver them all the time to people and alot of them dont look so good.

 

[tieguy]

Is that even mandatory, for every small business to pay for health insurance as of now ? just wondering. I haven't read up on it , since it doesn't effect me.
But, soo many assumptions going around, and if everyone of those came true, you might as well pack up, and leave now.

Klein make sure you get permission from your government to speak to conservatives. They won't jail you for unemployment fraud but they will for speaking to a conservative.

 

[klein]

Klein make sure you get permission from your government to speak to conservatives. They won't jail you for unemployment fraud but they will for speaking to a conservative.

Tell me first what a conservative is ! Canada has a conservative government . (Harper is from Calgary). Germany has a conservative government.
And who knows, how many other countries have one . Many. But, they all have national Healthcare, so I guess, they are not conservatives afterall.
And America will see the end of Conservatives, too, with a National Healthcare.
Gonna need to rename yourself ! Something you can discuss, over a cup of Tea.

 

[SWORDFISH]

Tell me first what a conservative is ! Canada has a conservative government . (Harper is from Calgary). Germany has a conservative government.
And who knows, how many other countries have one . Many. But, they all have national Healthcare, so I guess, they are not conservatives afterall.
And America will see the end of Conservatives, too, with a National Healthcare.
Gonna need to rename yourself ! Something you can discuss, over a cup of Tea.

You can call us entitlistic, greedy, and lazy. Probably doesnt relate to anyone on here but to a good percentage of our country. It will have to change or the so called great nation will be no more. Sad really.
A side note: I was at one of my deliverys today(an eye clinic for glasses) and the gal I know there was showing me a list of her patience for the day and was frustrated about it cuz 6 out of 7 were people leaching off the free government ride we give alot of people.

 

[klein]

You can call us entitlistic, greedy, and lazy. Probably doesnt relate to anyone on here but to a good percentage of our country. It will have to change or the so called great nation will be no more. Sad really.
A side note: I was at one of my deliverys today(an eye clinic for glasses) and the gal I know there was showing me a list of her patience for the day and was frustrated about it cuz 6 out of 7 were people leaching off the free government ride we give alot of people.

Guess you're more social then we are. We pay for eye exams here, unless some outfit has a free promotion.
Only thing covered in Canada is gp doctor and hospital visits. Not eyes, or chiro,dentist, or accupuncture. Not even drugs/perscriptions.

 

[upsgrunt]

You can call us entitlistic, greedy, and lazy. Probably doesnt relate to anyone on here but to a good percentage of our country. It will have to change or the so called great nation will be no more. Sad really.
A side note: I was at one of my deliverys today(an eye clinic for glasses) and the gal I know there was showing me a list of her patience for the day and was frustrated about it cuz 6 out of 7 were people leaching off the free government ride we give alot of people.

Must be a real classy place the way they breach that "patient"- doctor confidentiality thing.

 

[SWORDFISH]

Must be a real classy place the way they breach that "patient"- doctor confidentiality thing.

Didnt show me names but your right that probably shouldnt be done. Is it really breach if they dont put faces to figures?