So I was walked out of the building today..

[konsole]

I believe that the main issue the company has with what you did, is how the female supervisor could proceed with it. The company would prefer firing you long before the supervisor tried to sue the company for sexual harassment. If the supervisor wasnt offended by it, then ask the supervisor if they can speak to management and tell them that, especially in writing. Ask the supervisor if they will make a written statement to management stating that what you did was wrong, but they will not proceed with any further actions. The supervisor can even say that they werent offended by it, but even if they where I don't think it will matter as long as they say no further actions will be taken by them. This will give management the assurance that keeping you will not result in any further lawsuits made by the supervisor.

I'm not going to jump on the "you where stupid, you should be fired, we don't need people like you, start looking for another job" bandwagon, atleast if you don't have a reputation for doing things like this. Most people have done stupid things while at work that could have gotten them fired, most of those people where just lucky enough to not be noticed, overheard by people that didnt like them, or management was feeling forgiving that day. If you have a reputation for doing stuff like this then you probably should be fired, but if the supervisor wasnt offended, then ask her to make that written statement that she wont take any further actions if you were to stay an employee. You could probably even write up the statement yourself and ask her if she could agree to sign it. It might even be a smart idea to have other employees that work in the area to sign it so nobody else can claim harassment later on.

 

[grgrcr88]

I believe that the main issue the company has with what you did, is how the female supervisor could proceed with it. The company would prefer firing you long before the supervisor tried to sue the company for sexual harassment. If the supervisor wasnt offended by it, then ask the supervisor if they can speak to management and tell them that, especially in writing. Ask the supervisor if they will make a written statement to management stating that what you did was wrong, but they will not proceed with any further actions. The supervisor can even say that they werent offended by it, but even if they where I don't think it will matter as long as they say no further actions will be taken by them. This will give management the assurance that keeping you will not result in any further lawsuits made by the supervisor.

I'm not going to jump on the "you where stupid, you should be fired, we don't need people like you, start looking for another job" bandwagon, atleast if you don't have a reputation for doing things like this. Most people have done stupid things while at work that could have gotten them fired, most of those people where just lucky enough to not be noticed, overheard by people that didnt like them, or management was feeling forgiving that day. If you have a reputation for doing stuff like this then you probably should be fired, but if the supervisor wasnt offended, then ask her to make that written statement that she wont take any further actions if you were to stay an employee. You could probably even write up the statement yourself and ask her if she could agree to sign it. It might even be a smart idea to have other employees that work in the area to sign it so nobody else can claim harassment later on.

Good idea and worth a try but a would bet it will not matter. Allowing him to stay is the same as saying its ok to do that or similar actions at UPS. Will never happen!!

 

[serenity now]

when you get your next job, leave your ass in your pants

 

[konsole]

Has the OP mentioned yet how the supervisor felt about it? Did you have a chance to speak with her at any time after the incident? If yes what has she said?

 

[konsole]

Good idea and worth a try but a would bet it will not matter. Allowing him to stay is the same as saying its ok to do that or similar actions at UPS. Will never happen!!

To me its as simple as what the history of the OP is at the company with things of this nature, and what the intent was. If the OP doesnt have a history of offensive words/actions, and the intent was not to cause harm and the supervisor did not feel harassed, then I think the OP should just be given a warning not to do it anymore. A written warning not to expose himself or risk termination, would not be telling him its ok to continue doing it. A quick baring of your butt in an innocent manor with a friend that also took it as an innocent interaction I don't think is really that terrible of a thing. If the supervisor did feel harassed well then ya good luck to the OP. I think it all comes down to what people consider offensive and what they don't. To many people his actions would not be considered offensive, for instance if it was done to a friend. I'm sure other people that don't like him or could care less if he was fired would claim that it was offensive. People at work that don't like you are going to keep you under a microscope and try to get you in trouble for even the most minor things.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

To me its as simple as what the history of the OP is at the company with things of this nature, and what the intent was. If the OP doesnt have a history of offensive words/actions, and the intent was not to cause harm and the supervisor did not feel harassed, then I think the OP should just be given a warning not to do it anymore. A written warning not to expose himself or risk termination, would not be telling him its ok to continue doing it. A quick baring of your butt in an innocent manor with a friend that also took it as an innocent interaction I don't think is really that terrible of a thing. If the supervisor did feel harassed well then ya good luck to the OP.

keep your pants up! Use your middle finger nextime(5th amendment) freedom of speech!! If your sup doesnt like it....tell him you will be happy to have the ACLU...come down and explain it to him or her!!!

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Konsole brings up some good points. My question in reading this thread was how are you perceived at work by others, most importantly your mgmt team, but also with others? Does your steward think you are a jerk? Does he always have to intervene in some squirmish involving you?

Are you kind and courteous to your mgmt team? Say a greeting, maybe even engage in small talk at times?

What kind of worker are you, or rather, how do others-your mgmt team, your co-workers, the stewards-perceive your ethic?

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

There are truths to be found in all these posts. Your job is very much in jeopardy; the company may not bring you back. OTOH, others have come back from worse.

Violence in the workplace. That is a cardinal infraction; it is listed as such in the contract. I was fired two times for the infraction within a 4 month period one year. The first time I was fired I had finally had enough from a supervisor pestering me about my loads, despite explanations from both the driver whose truck I l oaded as well as another supv who I had explained the situation to. I did not threaten her, or even speak to her save for one instance where she grabbed my arm to usher me away from some supes I was talking about the situation with. I yanked my arm away a said, "I wasn't talking to you!" The next night I called in sick. The night after that I went to work, but was feeling somewhat unstable. After unsuccessfully trying to locate my steward I went to the supe on duty and told him I intended to find the steward and go home. Before he could ask why i told him "I feel like hitting someone, really irritable and agitated, but I dont knkw why; I'm not mad or angry or anything." He sent me home without speaking to the steward, and I spent the next several days in the hospital. When I went back to work I was fired, and I was out about three weeks.

In the second instance, a driver upset about his load started cussing me out. I told him to stop and he did it some more. Another driver who had known me a long time pulled me away before something happened. However, as the trucks were about to leave I noticed an irreg for the driver left at the irreg drop. I shouted for him to wait, for them to stop him. I quickly stood it on it's end, flipped it onto and then leaped onto the belt (metro belt, with a boxline). Just as I hopped up he closed the door, as some drivers do when they are being ignorant as if to say, "Sorry, my door is closed. Can't help you." I honestly can't say I know he did it for that reason, or even if he was aware I was trying to stop him (he was a cover, and relatively new, so I didn't know his name to get his attention); however, combined with the earlier encounter, an overwhelming sense of frustration overcame me and I just let the pkg go. It weighed about 135/140 lbs, one of those bookcases with the white corner guards running ong the edges, and crashed down behind him. That time I was out for two days (although it happened on a Thurs, so five days passed after the incident).

A situation like this would have some of the posters above saying, "I'd hate to be your steward", or "The union can't help you". That was 4 years ago. I am still here today because in my years of employment before and since I have had a very good reputation and working relationship with everyone. I was well-known, so much so that even after the 2nd instance I was given another chance.
I have also been fired previously for making 46 NDA late to UPS' Eastern Regional Office. Reportedly when it happened the higher-ups didnt ask for a story, or even ask my name, just simply said, "Get rid of him". I had been driving a little over 4 months, working for UPS for just 16, however the rep I got working the preload based on my relationships with hourlies and mgmt alike reportedly strongly influenced the outcome of that as well (I ended up getting a 3-day suspension).

I do not consider myself invincible, and I do not believe in luck. Make good with your co-workers and mgmt, don't ever slack off, show respect to the union for what you do, and you can survive "near-death" experiences as well.

So, the questions in my previous post: how can you answer?

 

[konsole]

As far as I know a woman is allowed to wear a tiny string bikini to the beach that covers only her "V" region, her *nus and her **pples. Her entire butt is exposed, and almost her entire chest. Even in movies where minor nudity is involved, the butt is usually the first place to be shown and allowed in less then XXX rated movies. If someone at work exposed their private parts on on purpose (*enis, *nus, **pples, **gina) I would say that should be up to the management to decide what to do, but termination I think is proper in that situation. If its just a quick flash of the butt, then a warning not to do it anymore is the right decision, especially since its not terribly difficult for some people to expose a large portion of their butt by accident when bending over to pick up boxes

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

As I handed my badge in after I was fired the 2nd time my preload mgr said, "You understand this has to be done", to which I nodded.

Depending on how you are perceived your mgmt team may be inclined to show mercy to you; however, in this litigious society they have to take strong action so as to show UPS does not tolerate such conduct and takes it very seriously. Firing you shows this, and protects UPS from being perceived as negligent, insensitive, or weak and be exposed in a lawsuit, sort of like arresting someone who appears to have done something very wrong. Once an investigation is conducted they can come back and possibly offer you your job back, so long as you show remorse and the supe you flashed does not appear to be highly offended, not to mention inclined to sue.

That leads to another question: what is your relationship with the supe in question (not necessarily romantic, but closer to two friends who can joke and hang out together)? Were you that comfortable that you felt she wouldn't be offended (like some can cuss another out and be all types of hostile, but the other knows they are just playing and responds in kind)? If you two weren't that well-acquainted, why would you do that? "I was foolish" or "I did something REALLY stupid" is NOT enough; what you did could be described as hateful, highly insulting. Someone would have to be mentally-handicapped to not see that.
If you are on friendly terms, however, you now know some jokes/actions are inappropiate for the workplace, or even in public. Learn this lesson.

 

[bbsam]

There is no way possible that I can say it was an accident. I bent down with my pants and boxers completely down and proceeded to tie my shoe while my rear was directed completely at my sup. I started laughing and when I got up the boss was looking straight at me. I don't know what you guys think but I'm for real starting to think this was almost a stupid decision by me.

I would find it hilarious if I saw it on Jackass or Tosh.O or Benny Hill. At work...no.

 

[anonymous6]

wow.....UPS is taking S.H. very seriously. 3 women in our hub just got 5 million for a supe S.H. them.

the dice has already been rolled. just be honest and apologetic. have your BA emphazize your 3 years of good service and put on a tighter belt.

 

[menotyou]

 

[serenity now]

There is no way possible that I can say it was an accident. I bent down with my pants and boxers completely down and proceeded to tie my shoe while my rear was directed completely at my sup. I started laughing and when I got up the boss was looking straight at me. I don't know what you guys think but I'm for real starting to think this was almost a stupid decision by me.

it finally clicked in

 

[konsole]

upsjacks84,

I'm not going to be so quick to throw you to the fire like almost everyone else here is. It was a stupid thing to do, especially out in the open like that, but if you don't have a history of things like this and nobody was offended by it, then I don't see why management would consider this first time as an automatic termination. When they said "you know we have to do this", that tells me that it was more of a required action to terminate you rather then a choice action. I'm pretty sure that if you did this in a truck and you and the driver are good friends, and you were both laughing about it, management would probably tell you to stop it at most. Everyday you hear people at work yelling at supervisors/management, throwing cuz words around, throwing boxes, abusing equipment. Why do these people hardly ever get in trouble? Its because there is no threat of multi million dollar lawsuits. You can get away with alot of stuff at this company as long as your actions don't have the potential to cost the company alot of money. Things of sexual nature are almost worse then actual physical harm in any company in America. Tell your manager to go phook himself and you will probably get sent home and be back a few days later. Moon another employee in an innocent manner and your job hangs in the balance. Screwed up if you ask me.

 

[Bagels]

My advice:
* Express determination to your business agent in getting your job back;
* Even if you still believe you did nothing wrong ... win the Oscar for sincerity & acting like you care.

If you have a "decent" manager, a clean record and you profoundly apologize, you may be offered your job back. Otherwise, your local hearing will deadlock and it'll move to panel. From there the odds are against you but if you have a clean record, and people say positive things about you, there's a chance you may get your job back.

But if I were you, I'd start putting in applications.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Let's suppose the OP does get his job back----how in the world do you go back to a job from which you were fired after doing such an incredibly stupid thing?

 

[menotyou]

Let's suppose the OP does get his job back----how in the world do you go back to a job from which you were fired after doing such an incredibly stupid thing?

I bet a donut you have seen the movie Idiocracy. I believe this film should have scared some people out of procreation. I fear it didn't though.

 

[UPSjacks84]

I got my job back, fellas! Woohoo!

 

[DS]

I got my job back, fellas! Woohoo!

Congratulations,what did you learn from this experience young man?