SmithBarney
Well-Known Member
Who do you think you are, some Congressman or something...
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Why are you subtracting your deductible? The deductible is included in the max.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
One thing to also consider is doctors visits do not apply to the deductible. Most people overlook this and think every time they go to the doctor those payments go towards the deductible, when in fact they don't.
Star B
White Lightening
Hmm. I can't seem to recall why I did it that way. The fact is, it's still about a spread. If I redid the numbers excluding that deductible subtraction and then adding the HRA subtraction, it comes to a difference of $654 between the two plans.
Funny thing is /r/Insurance didn't catch that.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Yes but the difference is the choice plan would cost you more not the premium. And as I pointed out regular doctors visits don't count towards the deductible.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Alrighty --- Thank you LBJ for the program that costs taxpayers $700,000,000,000 this year! WOOHOO!!!
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Yeah, the elderly don't need healthcare. They're going to die anyway.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Care to explain why we have a $700 billion program to provide health care for the wealthiest age group of Americans?
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
The majority of elderly are not wealthy. They don't need healthcare anyway.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Yet the average American age 65 or older is more than twice as wealthy as the average American under the age of 55. Tell me again why younger, poorer people are subsidizing older, wealthier people.
My parents are comfortably retired. They don't "need" that type of program yet they participate in it because it was a specific fee that they were forced to pay into for 35 years on the promise that they would get a specific benefit once they retired. They rightfully want a return on the investment that they paid for. Does it make any sense to tax a 40 year old couple with a negligible income and net worth to provide a benefit to people who don't need it?
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MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
I find your statement hard to believe. And no one is subsidizing the elderly. They paid into the system like everyone else.
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Your parents are not the average elderly. If they had not paid into the system, I'd agree they don't deserve the benefits.
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
It makes perfect sense if you put some thought into it. An old person has spent more time earning money, and earning at a higher rate, than a young person. He has let debt. His investments have grown for longer periods of time. If you look at it like that then you'd have to think that old people are wealthier.
Or you could simply look it up.
The average Medicare participant gets more in benefits than he paid for in taxes. Who makes up the difference?
59 Dano
I just want to make friends!
Who says?
MAKAVELI
Well-Known Member
Average Retirement Income 2017: How Do You Compare? | NewRetirement
What is the Average Retirement Income 2017 (Mean)? What is the Median Retirement Income 2017?
As you can see in the table below, median income is always lower and is probably closer to the reality for most households of retirement age.
You may have also noticed that average retirement income 2017 varies significantly by the age of the head of household. Household incomes decline the older they become.
Age of Household Median Income Mean Income
Households Aged 55-64 $62,802 $89,986
Households Aged 65-74: $47,432 $68,905
Households Aged 75 and Older: $30,635 $45,989
One very good reason is their heirs would prefer they pass on their wealth to them instead of to the healthcare industry.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
When was the last time you visited a county nursing home?
You are fortunate in that your parents are clearly the exception.
My father worked his whole life and died in a nursing home paid for by Medicaid.
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
This is easily one of the most intellectually dishonest arguments I've ever heard.
1. Everyone pays into Medicare, it's an earned benefit. They paid for it, they lived long enough to collect it, they earned it.
2. What's your proposed alternative? Most people on Medicare are unemployed, so they wouldn't be covered under an employer plan. How much do you think a policy for an 85 year old man on the individual market would cost? $50-60k/year? I don't think many "wealthy" elderly could cover that. With all their subsequent unpaid bills how much would costs increase for the rest of the population?
