Strike or no strike

[1989]

Tieguy-
Great job of completely missing my point!
"our" company just up and closed the thrift plan,
"our" company just up and changed the MIP as well as some management pension issues,
It seems "our" company can just up and change what they want, when they want.
I'm sorry if I confused you but, once again, my point was:
How/why should we trust the company to assume control of the pension and then not up and change something to their (the company) benefit?

Please try to address my question this time.

Did they take your money when they closed the
thrift plan? I don't think they did...No they gave you options to reinvest your money or the option to withdrawal your money. The pension problems wasn't caused by UPS. Why should the company fix the pension and let the same incompetent people continue to run the fund into the ground. I, for one, am glad that 10 or 15 percent of my pension is coming out of the management pension fund.

 

[trickpony1]

It's amazing.
Thus far there have been two (2) management replies to my simple question of:

"how/why should we trust the company to assume control of our (hourly) pension and not up and change it to their (the company) benefit whenever/whatever they (the company) feel like".

.......and not one management person has been able to answer that question directly.

 

[browniehound]

I know this is easy to say because we are not on strike and I'm recieving a paycheck every week, but I would go and work at Mcdonalds or clean toilets before I would cross the picket line.

 

[tieguy]

Tieguy-
Great job of completely missing my point!
"our" company just up and closed the thrift plan,

Trick I did not miss your point at all. Well I sort of did you want to say something really negative and disturbing here but you used a bad example. The company did not just up and end the thrift plan they ended the thrift plan and in exchange gave employees a completely different investment option. The purchase of ups stock at a discounted price. The change of the thrift plan was also the reason you now have a 401K plan. thrift plan members needed an place to roll their money without paying taxes. The company and the teamsters both started offering the 401 k plans as an option. You can't rewrite history.

"our" company just up and changed the MIP as well as some management pension issues,

You're right they increased my MIP and they added a 3 percent match for my 401 K plan. You can't spin this one either. The company you don't trust is doing soooooo much better then the band of misfits you have managing your pension.

It seems "our" company can just up and change what they want, when they want.

Imagine that the company changes things for the better while the union jacks up your dues so they can build up the strike fund for the next time they need to save CS from being a viable pension plan.

I'm sorry if I confused you but, once again, my point was:
How/why should we trust the company to assume control of the pension and then not up and change something to their (the company) benefit?

I'm sorry you're having a hard time understanding that the company is doing a much better job then you're willing to give them credit for. Your stubborness and resistance to understanding is the reason too many good hard working upsers are getting screwed out of their well deserved pension.

 

[tieguy]

It's amazing.
Thus far there have been two (2) management replies to my simple question of:

"how/why should we trust the company to assume control of our (hourly) pension and not up and change it to their (the company) benefit whenever/whatever they (the company) feel like".

.......and not one management person has been able to answer that question directly.

Its amazing that you apparently can not read that the points were answered quite well. Company taking much better care of its non-union employees and union is pissing your pension money away. Hope that helps.

 

[Gman24]

Its amazing that you apparently can not read that the points were answered quite well. Company taking much better care of its non-union employees and union is pissing your pension money away. Hope that helps.

Tieguy, sometimes people are so blinded by the truth, that they REFUSE to accept it as such.

 

[tieguy]

It's amazing.
Thus far there have been two (2) management replies to my simple question of:

"how/why should we trust the company to assume control of our (hourly) pension and not up and change it to their (the company) benefit whenever/whatever they (the company) feel like".

.......and not one management person has been able to answer that question directly.

Trick now that I've proven the company is actually doing much more for its people and much more trustworthy then the teamsters I'm waiting for your positive wine and roses response.

 

[browniehound]

Trick, if I understand you correctly you are saying that you don't want the company controlling the pension plan because they "will be alllowed to change it at will'?

So my question is would you rather have a multi-employer plan from the teamsters that is a fast sinking ship or a plan run by a company that has a proven track record of controlling costs and making S-loads of money? Are you against a UPS run plan because they could just "change it at will"?

I'd take my chances with a UPS run plan. I feel strongly that UPS will be in business in 20 years when I retire. I also feel strongly that most of the companies contributing to the teamster plan now, will be out of business in 20 years. Our teamster pension has a questionable future at best.

 

[705red]

the non union upsers were side by side with me in 97 working hard and fighting to save the union members pensions. Unfortunately we were not successful. My sincerest apologies to the many hard working upsers out there who also lost out on this fight because they were mislead by Ron Carey. When you look at how much money UPS pays into these pension plans then its easy to see that every UPSer should be retiring with a top of the line pension. Unfortunately the union keeps using the smoke and mirrors evil company rhetoric to deny you your well deserved retirement.

Maybe I'm being a little harsh but its clear 10 years later that Carey was wrong to walk out on our efforts to fix the many mismanaged pension plans.

Tie does ups have trustees on the cs pension plan?

 

[705red]

red you're right there are 21 multi employer plans. I don't have recent numbers but 11 of the 21 or over half were less then 70 percent funded in 2003. hardly a success story there. Meanwhile the evil company that tried to take your plans and fix them continues to provide a decent retirement for its non-union employees. You tell me.

The ideal funding would be right around 80% the cs is far away from that, but if you were 100% funded the companies at this point would not have to contribute to it. If im correct i think 1 of the plans is 100%funded right now and not receiving new contributions on our behalf. Lets not forget that if ups buys out the cs plan those currently under it would receive their pension from cs, the only ones who might benefit it would be the new hires.

 

[FedExers for UPS Strikes2]

Fedex should be starting their BS soon of luring our customers away,telling them we will be on strike.

Yes, we will. First we send out the notification that there is concern of disruption with "one of the national carriers" ... then we say "move all your packages over now, before we reach capacity." That is the best one, people really get scared and give us your business. But don't worry, we have a ton of capacity now, and will be prepared to take all of your business. I do have one request though, can you please hurry up an unionize UPS Freight? That way, when you guys spit on your customers (errr, I mean strike) my friends in FedEx Freight can take your LTL business as well. Be strong, don't give in, big demands!!!

 

[upsgrunt]

Yes, we will. First we send out the notification that there is concern of disruption with "one of the national carriers" ... then we say "move all your packages over now, before we reach capacity." That is the best one, people really get scared and give us your business. But don't worry, we have a ton of capacity now, and will be prepared to take all of your business. I do have one request though, can you please hurry up an unionize UPS Freight? That way, when you guys spit on your customers (errr, I mean strike) my friends in FedEx Freight can take your LTL business as well. Be strong, don't give in, big demands!!!

Fed Ex could not handle HALF of our volume. You may think your 30 stops is a workload, but try 150; everyday. What Fed Ex does when it tries to scare the customers is just plain BS. By the way, what is the reason for you to come to a UPS themed blog and start your crap? Are you scared of us or is the Fed Ex site just boring?

 

[moreluck]

The FedEx site will be very busy tomorrow when they tank on their earnings report........not looking good.

 

[westsideworma]

By the way, what is the reason for you to come to a UPS themed blog and start your crap? Are you scared of us or is the Fed Ex site just boring?

probably jealous of the fact that we're all EMPLOYEES. Or he just wanted to see the many hardworking people of a real delivery company and how it should be done.

most of our drivers could deliver their workload before lunch...

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

I was working at RPS while the current contract was being negotiated. The hub manager there even admitted that if were to strike they wouldn't be able to handle much more work. And that what little space they had in there would turned into wharehouse space because all the extra work would have to be stored until the drivers could get around to deliverying it.

 

[tieguy]

The ideal funding would be right around 80% the cs is far away from that, but if you were 100% funded the companies at this point would not have to contribute to it. If im correct i think 1 of the plans is 100%funded right now and not receiving new contributions on our behalf. Lets not forget that if ups buys out the cs plan those currently under it would receive their pension from cs, the only ones who might benefit it would be the new hires.

I don't understand the point red. It seems like it would be better to have a 100 percent plan that is healthy then a 40 percent plan that ups has to keep contributing to.

 

[local804]

You hardcore labor types continue saying don't trust the company. My company provides a decent retirement plan and 401K match not only to the management folks but every non-union clerical person in the company. the 401K match is a terrific option to self manage your retirement. . [/COLOR]

Tie,
After going to a 1 on 1 vision meeting with my supervisor, I found out some interesting things about "your company." He tells me that the supervisors are getting royally screwed with the MIP plan and he will NOT be getting a company pension. The supervisor has 9 years with the company 4 part time, three driving and so far, 2 in management. How come in your neck of the woods all of the flowers are blooming and his needs lots of water? With your terrific 401 match option, dont you think it will be hard for the single/divorced parents to spare 20% of the check to have it matched when they retire in 20 years? Some people can afford 20% when both parents work, most here in NY cant.

 

[upsgrunt]

Yes, we will. First we send out the notification that there is concern of disruption with "one of the national carriers" ... then we say "move all your packages over now, before we reach capacity." That is the best one, people really get scared and give us your business. But don't worry, we have a ton of capacity now, and will be prepared to take all of your business. I do have one request though, can you please hurry up an unionize UPS Freight? That way, when you guys spit on your customers (errr, I mean strike) my friends in FedEx Freight can take your LTL business as well. Be strong, don't give in, big demands!!!

If you have a ton of capacity now that must mean your volume now is crap and things are real slow for you.

 

[UPS Man]

I am in management. I have 20 years in and 15 to go before I retire. Please, please, please go on strike. This time I hope we don't bring you back. The company will change but at least we will be able to compete in the long run.

With the wages and benefits today, the only way we can compete is with efficiency. We can't pull much more efficiency out of the labor pool. I agree, you are about as efficient as you are going to get. Thus, in order to save the company, it is time to cut our losses and our union above market pay/benefits. The last thing the company can do is bail out the poorly managed "Union Pension Plans" and then also give them more money and benefits that will surely put us out of business.

Once again I say to all of those that are unhappy working at UPS, go somewhere else and stop complaining.

I want the pride of UPS, the people that are happy to have a decent job with an above pay rate and above average benefits to stay. The rest of you union loving/protected free loaders can go to FedEx, DHL, or some other blue collar, no college degree job and see how great it is there.

Good luck.

 

[20yearvet]

I was a supervisor during the 97 strike. Not only was I sent to an operation that I knew nothing about nor the area, but was expected to load the trucks, deliver and wait to make sure all was done. We received loads throughout the duration and did our best to keep up with the volume. The first day there were 4 drivers in the larger town I was delivering. By the end, I was the only one and delivering the entire city. Strikes work for no one, especially after last time. Dependant upon the results of the negotiations, I see no reason for another. There is too much to lose. DHL, USPS, Fedex Ground and Express can handle what we have now (or close enough) and we could lose it all. Again, wait for the end of negotiations to make sure it's fair, but remember that we can be replaced.