Strike or no strike

[tieguy]

I think he was stating that he didnt trust ups to hold his pension, like alot of us feel that way. Ups also has a hand in the cs pension crisis. I havent met anyone thats interested in a single employer fund.

Remember the enron scandel. Thats you guys now. CS is the greatest pension scandel since enron. If you look at the financial liabilities its probably the single greatest pension scandel ever.

CS is the only choice of many fine upsers. CS does not give you the choice of managing your own pension. You are stuck with that option. When you ask for or look for other options your teamster leadership tells you about the bogeyman in the shadows. They tell you the bogeyman(ups) might give you a pension plan that is fully funded. They tell you the bogeyman might give you a pension plan that is so good UPS does not even have to contribute to it to keep it healthy. This is supposed to scare you and make you fight to keep your 40 percent funded CS plan. The strange thing is there are a couple people that actually believe this mind wash game.

 

[705red]

Remember the enron scandel. Thats you guys now. CS is the greatest pension scandel since enron. If you look at the financial liabilities its probably the single greatest pension scandel ever.

CS is the only choice of many fine upsers. CS does not give you the choice of managing your own pension. You are stuck with that option. When you ask for or look for other options your teamster leadership tells you about the bogeyman in the shadows. They tell you the bogeyman(ups) might give you a pension plan that is fully funded. They tell you the bogeyman might give you a pension plan that is so good UPS does not even have to contribute to it to keep it healthy. This is supposed to scare you and make you fight to keep your 40 percent funded CS plan. The strange thing is there are a couple people that actually believe this mind wash game.

Tie i see you were on a conference call recently! Is this the new one on one discussions that you plan on beating into those drivers you can (harass) i mean talk to. I look forward to all the brainwashing from ups to come, now im not saying cs doesnt need some sort of fix. All i want all of us to do is remember ups doesnt do anything without benefiting themselves first! Tell us again how good your pension is?

 

[wyobill]

Tie i see you were on a conference call recently! Is this the new one on one discussions that you plan on beating into those drivers you can (harass) i mean talk to. I look forward to all the brainwashing from ups to come, now im not saying cs doesnt need some sort of fix. All i want all of us to do is remember ups doesnt do anything without benefiting themselves first! Tell us again how good your pension is?

A couple of our very high senority drivers said when they first started UPS had the pension. It was a couple of years later ups gave in to the
Teamsters and they took over control. As far as I know CS has always been severly underfunded. Why did UPS let go?........
What happens if UPS starts a single employer fund and the trusties
are split between Union and UPS ? What happens to the years that we have already vested with CS? Will ups assume these years?



.

 

[705red]

A couple of our very high senority drivers said when they first started UPS had the pension. It was a couple of years later ups gave in to the
Teamsters and they took over control. As far as I know CS has always been severly underfunded. Why did UPS let go?........
What happens if UPS starts a single employer fund and the trusties
are split between Union and UPS ? What happens to the years that we have already vested with CS? Will ups assume these years?



.

Bill no one knows the offer on the table as of yet. I can tell you if its a single employer, and ups isnt the big dog anymore where will our pensions come from, when we have more drawing then paying in?

In my local 705 ups did not want a seat on our plan until recently and they wont get it! Not while our administration is in there, our plan is around 80% funded and has been brought back over the last 4, 5 years.

 

[westsideworma]

Bill no one knows the offer on the table as of yet. I can tell you if its a single employer, and ups isnt the big dog anymore where will our pensions come from, when we have more drawing then paying in?

In my local 705 ups did not want a seat on our plan until recently and they wont get it! Not while our administration is in there, our plan is around 80% funded and has been brought back over the last 4, 5 years.

I see where you are coming from Red but I also see where some APWA people are coming from.

Multi employer: sustains other non contributing companies in addition to our own. 60% of our money goes to fund other peoples pensions...40% goes to us (roughly, from sources I've see online and here). I believe THAT is what a lot of APWA people have a problem with. if a majority went to us they may have less to gripe about, but fact is that isn't so.

single (APWA plan): ONLY UPSers. We get all of our contributions and as a result a much better pension. 100% UPS contribution to UPS workers. That is what many people will see. I understand your argument about what if UPS is no longer, etc. However in my opinion it would take an act of god before they'd let that happen.

On UPS' side. Why should UPS have to pay the CS screwup? UPS was not administering it. Because they have the most money? I can definitely see why they are reluctant to stay in it. I think I need more info here and maybe you can help, but I just don't see why UPS has to contribute more to a pension fund that they did nothing (least that I know of, again asking for more details here) to sink.

However I don't really trust UPS' hand in our pensions either...I feel if allowed they'd cut them the second they don't meet numbers for a few consecutive quarters or claim volume loss. If this is legally feasible I'm not sure, but to be honest I wouldn't trust any big business with my well-being, they're in it for #1 and that isn't you or I.

 

[705red]

I see where you are coming from Red but I also see where some APWA people are coming from.

I to can see where they are coming from, and i also see where thet can lead us and truthfully i cant paint a pretty picture of this outcome. We will probably end up without a union all together.


Multi employer: sustains other non contributing companies in addition to our own. 60% of our money goes to fund other peoples pensions...40% goes to us (roughly, from sources I've see online and here). I believe THAT is what a lot of APWA people have a problem with. if a majority went to us they may have less to gripe about, but fact is that isn't so.

I know i will get slammed for this statement but here i go. In fact we give up some of our retirement for the here and now. We are rewarded by being represented by the teamsters with the best pay in the industry, the best medical, vision, dental and prescription costs, that in return we loose some monthly contributions over our retirement. I guess the question is do we benefit more from bein part of the teamsters or would we benefit more by making $20 an hour now and pay for our medical, vision, dental and $50 a pop for prescriptions to receive more in retirement. I feel(now this is my opinion) that we make more over our life time by benefiting from the teamsters contract and i can live with that.

single (APWA plan): ONLY UPSers. We get all of our contributions and as a result a much better pension. 100% UPS contribution to UPS workers. That is what many people will see. I understand your argument about what if UPS is no longer, etc. However in my opinion it would take an act of god before they'd let that happen.

We would get more monthly under the apwas plan but at what cost? Compensation, benefits, contract language? Who knows?

On UPS' side. Why should UPS have to pay the CS screwup? UPS was not administering it. Because they have the most money? I can definitely see why they are reluctant to stay in it. I think I need more info here and maybe you can help, but I just don't see why UPS has to contribute more to a pension fund that they did nothing (least that I know of, again asking for more details here) to sink.

Your right, but in order for ups to get out of the pension theres a penalty to be paid, this is to ensure that other companies just dont pull out because they feel like it. Im not saying staying in there is the right thing to do, i dont have that answer and i do feel the pain for everyone thats affected by belonging to that plan. Ups also has trustees on the fund so the blame is all the way around, especially on the investment firms that rode that tech market way to long those greedy s.o.b.s!

However I don't really trust UPS' hand in our pensions either...I feel if allowed they'd cut them the second they don't meet numbers for a few consecutive quarters or claim volume loss. If this is legally feasible I'm not sure, but to be honest I wouldn't trust any big business with my well-being, they're in it for #1 and that isn't you or I.

We have to wait and see what the proposal is theres alot og questions that need to be answered, and rumors can only hurt the process.

 

[tieguy]

Tie i see you were on a conference call recently! Is this the new one on one discussions that you plan on beating into those drivers you can (harass) i mean talk to. I look forward to all the brainwashing from ups to come, now im not saying cs doesnt need some sort of fix. All i want all of us to do is remember ups doesnt do anything without benefiting themselves first! Tell us again how good your pension is?

Red if you feel you have the ability to discuss the issues then feel free. If you can't if I have left you so speechless that you have no answer then admit defeat and move on. Don't waste my time with some mumbo jumbo about conference calls and the company lines. At least be a man of honor and admit you have no response. I really don't know how you could possibly defend the CSron scandel and badmouth UPS when UPS is again for the second time trying to fix the CS nightmare.

 

[tieguy]

We have to wait and see what the proposal is theres alot og questions that need to be answered, and rumors can only hurt the process.

I know i will get slammed for this statement but here i go. In fact we give up some of our retirement for the here and now. We are rewarded by being represented by the teamsters with the best pay in the industry, the best medical, vision, dental and prescription costs, that in return we loose some monthly contributions over our retirement. I guess the question is do we benefit more from bein part of the teamsters or would we benefit more by making $20 an hour now and pay for our medical, vision, dental and $50 a pop for prescriptions to receive more in retirement. I feel(now this is my opinion) that we make more over our life time by benefiting from the teamsters contract and i can live with that.

Red thats a cop out. Your brothers already had a plan that was supposed to pay x amount of dollars at a decent retirement age. The money was negotiated and paid by ups for them to do so. The teamsters then lost all that money paid on their behalf. There are no consolation prizes when you screw someone out of their pension.

 

[trickpony1]

........ when UPS is again for the second time trying to fix the CS nightmare.

Let me guess.....UPS is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts and because they love us?
Is this the proverbial "wolf in lamb's clothing?
The company's battle cry of "UPS dollars for UPS people" sounds great and some fools will buy it but......is it not playing on the greed in everyones heart?

I willing to bet that IF the company gains a majority rule of the CS pension, we, the retiring broken down workers, will not see the spectacular $4000, $5000 etc. monthly retirement checks. The company knows the $2500 for 25, $3000 for 30 and so on makes us drool and is the going price of the past.

Tie, you're not stupid. You know as well as we do that the bottom line is all the company cares about. OOPS!....I forgot....and the ability to control, and change things, to their benefit, whenever they like.

 

[705red]

Red if you feel you have the ability to discuss the issues then feel free. If you can't if I have left you so speechless that you have no answer then admit defeat and move on. Don't waste my time with some mumbo jumbo about conference calls and the company lines. At least be a man of honor and admit you have no response. I really don't know how you could possibly defend the CSron scandel and badmouth UPS when UPS is again for the second time trying to fix the CS nightmare.

Tie when you take the management blinders off maybe then we can debate, until i will expect more slamming of everyone involved with the cs pension except of course of the ups trustees whose in your eyes did nothing wrong. No manager has ever left me speechless, i take that back the way you run this company on a day to day basis leaves me pretty speechless, keep up the good work and most of us wont have the problem of worrying about retireing from here because we will all be filing out applications at dhl when they steal our business because of half backwards managing!

 

[tieguy]

Let me guess.....UPS is doing this out of the kindness of their hearts and because they love us?
Is this the proverbial "wolf in lamb's clothing?
The company's battle cry of "UPS dollars for UPS people" sounds great and some fools will buy it but......is it not playing on the greed in everyones heart?

I willing to bet that IF the company gains a majority rule of the CS pension, we, the retiring broken down workers, will not see the spectacular $4000, $5000 etc. monthly retirement checks. The company knows the $2500 for 25, $3000 for 30 and so on makes us drool and is the going price of the past.

Tie, you're not stupid. You know as well as we do that the bottom line is all the company cares about. OOPS!....I forgot....and the ability to control, and change things, to their benefit, whenever they like.

Wolf in lambs clothing? Yea trick you're right lets ignore the lifeboats the company is offering us and stay on the titanic. Your ignorance is astounding.

 

[tieguy]

Tie when you take the management blinders off maybe then we can debate, until i will expect more slamming of everyone involved with the cs pension except of course of the ups trustees whose in your eyes did nothing wrong. No manager has ever left me speechless, i take that back the way you run this company on a day to day basis leaves me pretty speechless, keep up the good work and most of us wont have the problem of worrying about retireing from here because we will all be filing out applications at dhl when they steal our business because of half backwards managing!

Ah another dodge because your attempt to defend the CS ron scandel has failed miserably. You hard core teamster defenders must be procreating incesstually. Thank god the company is ignoring your stupidity and trying to help fix our peoples pensions anyway. I think I hear your ship starting to break up. Enjoy the ride down to the bottom.

To the rest of you hard working CS recipiants I'm more of a brother to you then brother Red and brother Trick will ever be. I at least care that you are getting screwed. The only thing your alleged "brothers" care about is whether the grim reaper is going to call you guys up in seniority order.

 

[705red]

Ah another dodge because your attempt to defend the CS ron scandel has failed miserably. You hard core teamster defenders must be procreating incesstually. Thank god the company is ignoring your stupidity and trying to help fix our peoples pensions anyway. I think I hear your ship starting to break up. Enjoy the ride down to the bottom.

To the rest of you hard working CS recipiants I'm more of a brother to you then brother Red and brother Trick will ever be. I at least care that you are getting screwed. The only thing your alleged "brothers" care about is whether the grim reaper is going to call you guys up in seniority order.

Tie now i see why the union writes the contract in 3rd grade grammar, its so guys like you can try to understand it, but you still just dont get it. I am not defending the teamsters handling of the cs pension, im acknowledging it, but theres blame to go around. You keep saying the company wants to fix it, show us the offer, and show us whats in it for ups! Tie ready to admit that ups's trustee on the cs plan has any blame or were they absent from all the board meetings and had no idea what was going on?