Thanks Andy M, you pulled it off!

[twoweeled]

Being that dues are based on wage rates, your conclusions are incongruous.

Dues are important, as is the link to hourly rates. But the priority is to avoid a strike. The priority is to pass a contract. More so than a raise in hourly rate.

 

[twoweeled]

i feel that the contract where we got 8 hour days and the option of 9.5 was really good bargining..we need more language like this....guys are tired of working such long hours at such an unattainable pace...this is breaking people down and the company knows it as does the union.

I agree. When I see package drivers out there working 12 hour days now. It seems obvious to me, part of the plan is to break package drivers. Many of them are not going to last long, with those hours. You young guys think I'm full or it, but you will not last long. It's too hard on the body.

 

[twoweeled]

Being that dues are based on wage rates, your conclusions are incongruous.

I assume your referring to:
"They would both agree to a $2 per hour cut, if they thought they could pull it off."
No, It's congruent. A contract is still the priority. While a raise in dues is desirable, the continuance of dues is more important.

 

[twoweeled]

Yep, I always look for a root word when I'm not sure.
In this case I believe the root word would be congruent?

LOL. I got a little chuckle out of his .25 cent word, but okay. the only time I ever used congruent was in geometry, but let's use it on the forum. I think I know what he meant.

 

[twoweeled]

Oh and you were so close. Your theory is not congruent with reality. If raises were the prime factor, wages would go even higher and bennys would've been cut. That did not happen.

No. . . I disagree. If raises were the priority, we never would have been introduced to bonuses. the bonuses that were given to us years back, to pass a bad contract. The plan (and it did work) was to offer a bonus for (I think) $1000 to full timers and $500 for part timers. When the bonus was gone, the IBT was was not getting any raise in dues, because there was no raise given. BUT IT GOT THE CONTRACT PASSED. We finally wised up, and realized, a bonus was not a raise.
At least, I hope we wised up?

 

[Inthegame]

When the bonus was gone, the IBT was not getting any raise in dues, because there was no raise given.

Not quite...back in the days of bonuses, the IBT was on the flat per cap ($5.10 per member per month), so neither bonuses nor wages had any impact on dollars going to the International. The level of membership determined their income.

 

[10 point]

LOL. I got a little chuckle out of his .25 cent word, but okay. the only time I ever used congruent was in geometry, but let's use it on the forum. I think I know what he meant.

You mean hypotenuse?

 

[wide load]

Of course, you are correct. A bit of hyperbole, I guess. YOur point being; hourly rate goes down, so do dues. Correct. The IBT will give contractual rights to keep the hourly rate up. but they will also give up hourly rate (ie. 1 one time bonuses) to get a contract through. My point was really, the last thing the IBT wants is a strike. There is no money coming in, but there is money going out, now. The company may have different priorities, but both want things to continue. Both lose money in a strike.
We are actually fighting both entities.

We should totally give $15 back so our dues can be lowered!! That will teach em!

 

[twoweeled]

Not quite...back in the days of bonuses, the IBT was on the flat per cap ($5.10 per member per month), so neither bonuses nor wages had any impact on dollars going to the International. The level of membership determined their income.

So back in the days of the bonuses, a $2 an hour raise didn't effect the monthly dues?
I didn't know that.

 

[twoweeled]

We should totally give $15 back so our dues can be lowered!! That will teach em!

Yeah! That should work! I guess we all know, why we're in the mess we're in!

 

[Inthegame]

So back in the days of the bonuses, a $2 an hour raise didn't effect the monthly dues?
I didn't know that.

Reread my post. It affected the dues but not the amount that flowed from local unions to the International Union. Prior to the "Blue Ribbon Commission" (a creation of the 2001 IBT Convention to address the Internationals funding shortfalls), per cap was a flat fee from locals to the IBT. Now per cap is 22% of dues collected for wages above $11.00, and 15% of initiation fees. So now as dues increase, that amount increases.
BTW, every time your dues increase, you should be doing cartwheels, or in your case cartweels.

 

[10 point]

Reread my post. It affected the dues but not the amount that flowed from local unions to the International Union. Prior to the "Blue Ribbon Commission" (a creation of the 2001 IBT Convention to address the Internationals funding shortfalls), per cap was a flat fee from locals to the IBT. Now per cap is 22% of dues collected for wages above $11.00, and 15% of initiation fees. So now as dues increase, that amount increases.
BTW, every time your dues increase, you should be doing cartwheels, or in your case cartweels.

I wonder what the initiation fees bring in now. Lately, we've seen a turn over rate that is unprecedented. Newbies making it thirty days is seemingly rare (here) but we can't be the only operation with that problem. If they do stay to seniority that'll change after labor day when several more drivers are laid off for two months and many new hires get frustrated and quit from being laid off so long.

 

[wide load]

Yeah! That should work! I guess we all know, why we're in the mess we're in!

I'll stick to making 100k a year. 106 a month is well worth it.

 

[wide load]

I'll stick to making 100k a year. 106 a month is well worth it.

Apparently Bubble disagrees that making 100k is good. I guess he feels we should be making less.

 

[twoweeled]

Reread my post. It affected the dues but not the amount that flowed from local unions to the International Union. Prior to the "Blue Ribbon Commission" (a creation of the 2001 IBT Convention to address the Internationals funding shortfalls), per cap was a flat fee from locals to the IBT. Now per cap is 22% of dues collected for wages above $11.00, and 15% of initiation fees. So now as dues increase, that amount increases.
BTW, every time your dues increase, you should be doing cartwheels, or in your case cartweels.

Sound like semantics. It's still an increase to the union. Okay, so it only went to the local, but not the international (supposedly)? And you don't view that, as an incentive to raise our hourly rate, in exchange for givebacks? Which was my point to begin with. And did you really didn't think the IBT was going to just watch as the local's income rose, as the IBT's collections remained stagnant? The dues to the Union were raised (even back then) as hourly rates were raised. Definitely incentive to get hourly raises, in exchange for givebacks.
I can't categorically say; if I get a raise, I'll be doing cartweels. That would be foolish. I'd have to know what/if anything was given in exchange for that raise. And we all know, there has been givebacks along the way.

 

[twoweeled]

I'll stick to making 100k a year. 106 a month is well worth it.

And that is why are raises have barely kept up with inflation, and most or us are getting harasses all the time, for BS.
Because we're good with it!

 

[twoweeled]

Apparently Bubble disagrees that making 100k is good. I guess he feels we should be making less.

Oh yeah, or course. That's what we're all after. working more, and making less.

 

[twoweeled]

Apparently Bubble disagrees that making 100k is good. I guess he feels we should be making less.

I think "Bubble" probably feels we would be better off, making more than $106K! But that's just a guess.

 

[Bubblehead]

I think "Bubble" probably feels we would be better off, making more than $106K! But that's just a guess.

Bubble thinks that you are on the right track, but a bit derailed.
@Inthegame actually validated what I believe we are both trying to say?
When the per capita was a flat rate, like it was during the "bonus era", the Union got theirs either way.
Since the formula has changed, and our dues and the IBT's per capita is predicated on our hourly rate, the IBT has not entertained the notion of a bonus in lieu of an hourly raise. (Thank God)

Bubble thinks that the equation is what it is at UPS and that there are many other "variables" that have been thrown to the wayside, asides from our hourly rate, in order to boast the coffers of the International and it's struggling subordinates.(especially in the Central Region)
It's high time to negotiate a contract that benefits UPSer's in areas other than our hourly rate.

Bubble thinks that UPS is making it hand over fist and can easily afford to do us much better than the IBT has negotiated in the previous few contracts.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Bubble thinks that the equation is what it is at UPS and that there are many other "variables" that have been thrown to the wayside, asides from our hourly rate, in order to boast the coffers of the International and it's struggling subordinates.(especially in the Central Region)

Running the IBT isn't cheap.

Prior to the "Blue Ribbon Commission" approving the increase, the IBT was still

functioning on a formula that had existed from the 50's and 60's ??

It wasn't financially viable, to continue that way.

It's high time to negotiate a contract that benefits UPSer's in areas other than our hourly rate.

I've harped on this before....

But, how many members even bother to go to their Locals "contract proposal" meeting ??

(And people wonder why, some elected officials get jaded)


The IBT solicit's the members opinion for a reason.

For the most part, that's what they take to the table during negotiations.

Bubble thinks that UPS is making it hand over fist and can easily afford to do us much better than the IBT has negotiated in the previous few contracts.

I just don't understand the mentality of "UPS is making record profits" and we

deserve a bigger slice of the pie. Don't you want them to be profitable ?


What would be an acceptable % ?


As an aside;

The "rallying cry" in freight (YRC, not UPS freight) was

"Shut them down.... I was looking for a job when I came here".


Just say'n.



-Bug-