Just a side note here. Local 177 has not seen an increase to the pension fund for almost 20 years until this proposal. The measly 402 bucks that will be increased in the pension will be lost to healthcare that any retiree will have to burden. Over the life of the new contract, more than 30 million dollars will be siphoned out of the pension to pay for the healthcare. This is a giveback people, plain and simple. Robbing Peter to pay Paul. Anybody who accepts that is not looking out for the Union employees that looked out for them in the past. I respect Doolittle as he's doing more by standing up to the corporate bull that UPS incessantly tries to shove down members throats.
Thanks Andy, Still Voting NO
- Thread starter doolittle95
- Start date
Wow...me me me me me. An active employee eh? You sir are a disgrace to the Union for which you work. I can't wait for the day you retire. Make sure you stay here on this board so we can see how your mind will change. Just one major hospital stay will wipe you out by the time UPS keeps eating away your bennies. You just spew garbage and never call me brother like you did in another thread to me. I won't ever respond to that.
IzzyTheNose
Well-Known Member
All "active employees" should be very concerned with how retirees fare on this contract. Because what happens to retirees now, only shapes what will happen to the next generation of retirees that follows.
LagunaBrown
Well-Known Member
Squint, I an not here to fight you... I am here to tell it like it is just like I corrected you on the other thread. The fact is the $500,000 is the exact same just as the no cap for actives. Go look in your SPD and don't give me this me me me 
because I helped you a (retiree) when you misunderstood the website. I want it to be clear. If you can't deal with reality then I am sorry and good luck brother.
because I helped you a (retiree) when you misunderstood the website. I want it to be clear. If you can't deal with reality then I am sorry and good luck brother.Anonymous 10
Guest
Why don't you become a steward?
Anonymous 10
Guest
That's funny
doolittle95
Active Member
Squint, I an not here to fight you... I am here to tell it like it is just like I corrected you on the other thread. The fact is the $500,000 is the exact same just as the no cap for actives. Go look in your SPD and don't give me this me me me
Laguna you are correct, no change on the 500k cap.
Understandably, people like squint are having a hard time dealing with reality.
Facing $3600 annual premiums?...presumably more on the next contract...while they chip away every contract? That is tough to swallow.
Sheesh, if only somebody would do something to stop it...oh wait, we have the right to say NO!
So If you don't have a shred of respect for what retirees did to help win you primo wages and bene's-before the complacent majority let Hoffa bargain them away ...you ought to consider what retirees are getting and likely to get, for purely selfish reasons: you will retire and if you complete a career at UPS your body will be broke. period. This is a human issue and the only real dividing line is one of economics, so tdu sheep, Hoffa/Hall kiss ass, argue from the left or right...WHATEVER who gives a friend.
If you are a teamster you are getting worked and you better think hard about what you are really worth.
You might want to consider paying it back to retirees with your vote, and at the same time consider paying it forward to the part timers, next time around, when you vote. we need everybody on board if we're to have a shot at turning this around. We need everybody to feel like they've been taken care of. That's why they call it a union.
Laguna, somebody called you out for not voting in this thread, is that true?
LagunaBrown
Well-Known Member
Doolittle I get it. I am very involved and the retiree piece is a valid one. There is a lot more to it. As for voting most all the stewards and a few members did not receive a ballot. We did not even get a chance to vote. We followed all process and notified the IBT but no luck. That guy is trying to say I purposely didn't vote and that's BS. Do you really think I study this stuff for nothing and wouldn't vote?
doolittle95
Active Member
doolittle95
Active Member
Ha,Sorry still laughing at TOS' response to this quote.
I believe you do get it. And as it is very complicated. Maybe more transparency and balanced information from the locals would be helpful? Accurate information. Maybe the locals could finally make a sustained, concerted effort to involve and inform their membership? Because by all appearances it looks like the International tried to rig a yes vote in June and still managed to screw it up.
LagunaBrown
Well-Known Member
That was a funny post by TOS no doubt...... Apparently he still can't figure out why he has a troll tag next his name
As for the IBT.... Who knows but that is why I like the West in control the healthcare. It should give our locals a more power in bargaining and I think the next contract will be the real test. Every region has very different issues but much of this contract for us (in the west) is based on securing securing the ball before running forward. I don't think anyone loves the deal 100% but it is not a bad contract either. There are time factors like healthcare and baby boomer retirees in play that we will need the ability to adjust to this time around. Of course this is just my opinion but the consolation is that we all have 5 years to fight the biggest problem in our union today which is apathy. We will never make true gains unless we get the members involved with our union. Just sending in a ballot does not count, we need more passionate people like the ones that post here and preach it in the yards.
That was a funny post by TOS no doubt...... Apparently he still can't figure out why he has a troll tag next his name
Finally, a post that makes sense and addresses everyone as a whole. Indeed, we can argue all day long, and never find a solution. We didnt ask to be placed into this situation fighting amongst ourselves, this was a position that "WEAK" negotiating placed us in.
Some members want to fight HARDER, some want a little less arguing, some want to wave the white flag and accept whatever is presented.
As Doolittle stated, the Teamsters thought they would present a bucket of chitt to us, and we would look at that bucket of chitt and see chicken noodle soup, but we didnt, and we forced both the C6 and the west to do what was right and get us a decent plan that came closer to what we had.
Nothing came for free. It came at a price. We have been at each others throats for months now, and at the end of the day, we have to accept something that we collectively dont really like, but its better than what was first presented to us.
Member involvement is always going to be the factor that determines how things go in the future, but with these negotiations, the lack of information, the delays, the avoidance and the lack of leadership drove members into not caring enough to make a simple meeting and having their voices heard.
But dont confuse yourself Laguna, there is nothing secured, and at our meeting Andy was asked for guarantees and he wouldnt , couldnt and didnt come close to guaranteeing that this healthcare would remain the same for the full five years.
As for the contract, its not a bad contract, but its not a good contract either. Taking part timers to 4 years progression isnt good for part timers, increasing the use of technology in disciplining drivers isnt good for drivers. Watering down 9.5 language isnt good for drivers already working excessive hours. Not placing language into the contract stopping production harrassment isnt good for drivers.
These are issues that remain unsettled in the minds of those affected.
You are correct on one thing, just sending in a ballot isnt enough. Knowing who's going to lead you in 2018 is now the biggest focus for all members.
Hoffa and Hall have had two contracts to screw up and the members have to decide whether or not they want to wait to see a third screwup or make changes now and ultimately see a better outcome in the future.
Doolittle said it right, the teamsters tried to ram a crap contract down our throats and we did enough to stop them when we shut the whole thing down. Now its time to learn the new contract and protect ourselves while we collectively find a way to place people into office who will do it for us.
Peace
TOS
doolittle95
Active Member
Well stated TOS. And scary, It's almost like u and Laguna have something in common. Ha.
I agree with u though, its time to bring in a new team, its really time to re-brand the teamsters...
We need a unified union and we need America on our side. We have less than 5 years to transform this union into something America can get with.
TOS & Laguna both present their opinions.
Its alot of work to understand all of this.
Both have projected a strong argument from different views.
What troubles me is co-workers who can't grasp what is going on and being asked to accept.
Members come to me asking to clarify much of this, yet its still a mixed bag of concessions.
What concerns me most is that not enough is being done to help members understand all of this.
Sure, we have meetings with a rep from another district.
We need local officials defining all of this directly to us;
From those officials that we elected.
And those officials can't define what another rep from a different state presents.
Here lies the beginning of our troubles.
However, is it the whole truth from them?
Members continue to walk around dumbfounded and unsure of themselves what it is exactly that they are asked to vote on.
They dont know if its good or bad.
Yet stewards here continue to push to accepting all of this as the next best thing.
Stewards : continue your pattern.
Members in greater numbers than you still have no idea if its good or bad.
Here again lies the problem.
Its the great unknown, in 5 years, just exactly what this will all be.
And in this lies a vote that most can't determine which is best.
Its alot of work to understand all of this.
Both have projected a strong argument from different views.
What troubles me is co-workers who can't grasp what is going on and being asked to accept.
Members come to me asking to clarify much of this, yet its still a mixed bag of concessions.
What concerns me most is that not enough is being done to help members understand all of this.
Sure, we have meetings with a rep from another district.
We need local officials defining all of this directly to us;
From those officials that we elected.
And those officials can't define what another rep from a different state presents.
Here lies the beginning of our troubles.
However, is it the whole truth from them?
Members continue to walk around dumbfounded and unsure of themselves what it is exactly that they are asked to vote on.
They dont know if its good or bad.
Yet stewards here continue to push to accepting all of this as the next best thing.
Stewards : continue your pattern.
Members in greater numbers than you still have no idea if its good or bad.
Here again lies the problem.
Its the great unknown, in 5 years, just exactly what this will all be.
And in this lies a vote that most can't determine which is best.
Well that shouldn't be too tough...
Signature Only
Blue in Brown
Seems like a decent deal. Heard an interview with Secretary Of Defense, Chuck Nagel, who pointed to the military's largest problem...health care which takes about 10% of the military's total budget.
As I understand it, UPS will be picking up the medical premium tab so I'm not sure why its necessary to divert pension dollars. Is it to cover anticipated increases?, pay trust operating expenses? Not happy about the increase for retirees.
I would have agreed to wage diversion to help offset the increased retiree costs but then I'm full-time. I can't see part-timers giving up a wage increase, they have it hard enough. The problem is without seeing everything its hard to judge what is fair.
UPS makes decent profits and at least in the west, we have good pension contributions. Given the current state of health care, and the nation's struggles to pay and provide access for everyone, is the offer good? UPS likes to knock the bargaining unit in the head whenever it gets a chance.
They distort, conceal and lie at every opportunity. If we were treated decently, this would be a slam-dunk.
As I understand it, UPS will be picking up the medical premium tab so I'm not sure why its necessary to divert pension dollars. Is it to cover anticipated increases?, pay trust operating expenses? Not happy about the increase for retirees.
I would have agreed to wage diversion to help offset the increased retiree costs but then I'm full-time. I can't see part-timers giving up a wage increase, they have it hard enough. The problem is without seeing everything its hard to judge what is fair.
UPS makes decent profits and at least in the west, we have good pension contributions. Given the current state of health care, and the nation's struggles to pay and provide access for everyone, is the offer good? UPS likes to knock the bargaining unit in the head whenever it gets a chance.
They distort, conceal and lie at every opportunity. If we were treated decently, this would be a slam-dunk.
LagunaBrown
Well-Known Member
The union is only as strong as it's members and aa 30% vote says a lot. My local has great Business Agents that care. Before you blame anyone you better take a good look in the mirror. Use your resources and grow involvement in the Union to defeat apathy. Period. Stop concentrating on voting our leaders out and spend more time getting the common man in.
Anonymous 10
Guest
Yea. New business agents every three years makes a local look like a circus. Ups loves new ba's every three to six years.
LagunaBrown
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Fill the hall before filling the positions.
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