The difference between Conservatives and Liberals

[MAKAVELI]

I won't touch the recession because of how the administration has said we've been out of it and we're recovering nicely and all.

But I dug up some numbers on the cost of Iraq and Afghanistan and from fiscal year 2009 to 2013 688.5 billion has been spent on it, vs 761 spent from 2001. The costs in Iraq went down, but Afghanistan went up after 2008.

Pretty sure Obama pledged to bring out troops home in his election campaign for 2008. I understand it's not as easy as making a pledge, but he appears to have done it with Iraq, but certainly not with Afghanistan.

Again, I don't care who shows up next, the Federal government needs to spend less else we'll have a bigger problem than Greece.

Edit: I got my numbers from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933935.html this time.

Your numbers mean nothing unless you break it down to specifics. And yes he did say he will pull out of Afghanistan by the end of 2014. It is February you know? As far as the recession goes, if he had let the banks fail, and other major financial institutions we would be a lot worse off right now. We both work for 2 major bellwethers of the economy and neither FedEx or UPS is failing. They are both strong and volumes have increased since the the economic collapse of 2008. So yes the economy is rebounding, but corporate America has taken advantage of the American worker and increasing their lust for profit and power.

 

[The Other Side]

I'll agree, despite projections, but the increase is too much. Bush wasn't perfect, but in 8 years he grew the debt from $5,807,463,412,200.06 to $11,909,829,003,511.75. Obama went from $11,909,829,003,511.75 to at least $17,075,590,107,963.57. Bush allowed spending to increase and the debt to increase 6 trillion under his watch. Obama in less time has allowed the debt to increase 5 trillion. Bush shouldn't have allowed it to increase as much as he had, but Obama who campaigned on such things as ending costly wars and the like shouldn't be cut any slack when the debt is increasing so much. Bush increased 6 over 8, Obama 5 over 6. Obama has a higher rate of increase so far.

I pulled my numbers from http://www.polidiotic.com/?page_id=361

In another couple years Obama may very well raise the debt another few trillion to pull it close to double what he inherited. That's too much, and no matter who gets the office after him if they don't slow it down I'm going to be against them. We can't sustain such a debt.

Ninnim, good post. How about including the breakdown of that 6 trillion that has been spent during Obamas watch?

How much did the bush tax cuts in 2001 ADD to the deficit during Obamas watch? How much did the Bush tax extentions ADD to the deficit during Obamas watch.

Everyone wants to throw out numbers without details. Its easy to say "obama spent 6 trillion dollars" , but its even easier to leave out how much BUSH added to the deficit with his policies.

"Freedom isnt free" was a cute saying during the BUSH administration, but now all of a sudden, "FREEDOM" costs too much.

TOS.

 

[oldngray]

I won't touch the recession because of how the administration has said we've been out of it and we're recovering nicely and all.

But I dug up some numbers on the cost of Iraq and Afghanistan and from fiscal year 2009 to 2013 688.5 billion has been spent on it, vs 761 spent from 2001. The costs in Iraq went down, but Afghanistan went up after 2008.

Pretty sure Obama pledged to bring out troops home in his election campaign for 2008. I understand it's not as easy as making a pledge, but he appears to have done it with Iraq, but certainly not with Afghanistan.

Again, I don't care who shows up next, the Federal government needs to spend less else we'll have a bigger problem than Greece.

Edit: I got my numbers from http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0933935.html this time.

Obama got troops out of Iraq by moving them to Afghanistan.

 

[wkmac]

Obama got troops out of Iraq by moving them to Afghanistan.

From a certain POV, you are correct but it's just not that easy in the end.

Private contractors replacing troops in Iraq and Afghanistan

The irony of this is that now under a democrat administration, we are seeing the growth of privatization.

 

[island1fox]

You can't count as fact something that hasn't happened yet.

ups,

It is a fact jack! The only plan Obama has to reduce the Debt is more spending ---It will be minimum 22 trillion fact ----speculation is it will be above 26 Trillion.

Just go to the U.S. national Debt Clock --It is not slowing down --and there is no plan to slow it down ---FACT.

Obama's term has not ended yet -Thank God it will --That is also a fact.

 

[The Other Side]

ups,

It is a fact jack! The only plan Obama has to reduce the Debt is more spending ---It will be minimum 22 trillion fact ----speculation is it will be above 26 Trillion.

Just go to the U.S. national Debt Clock --It is not slowing down --and there is no plan to slow it down ---FACT.

Obama's term has not ended yet -Thank God it will --That is also a fact.

Island, couple of things other than your wrong, again.

First, you already went on the record to say Obama has doubled the debt ( of course we know you heard that versus figured that out for yourself ) and now you want to say you are simply "FORECASTING" the doubling of the debt.

The debt clock doesnt slow down because its calculating the INTEREST on the money in debt.

If i told you "FREEDOM ISNT FREE" would that make you feel better about the debt? IF not, why did it under BUSH?

And lastly, you can celebrate the ending of the first black american president, but you better prepare for the first woman president on deck.

TOS.

 

[island1fox]

TOS,

You can spin like a top ---you cannot change FACTS--Obama's term will end ---and the debt will be at or well over 22 trillion ---therefore doubling the debt.

Under Bush --you and Obama told us running up the Debt was Unpatriotic ---Short or no memory--or very selective memory --five years and counting the most powerful man in the world --still spending huge dollars--increasing the debt -stimulous for shovel ready jobs --no shovel ready jobs--spending millions on Website that does not work --outsourced to another country --spending millions more to fix it --holds NO-ONE accountable--- on those wars- surges-drones-more wars --expanding the spy network on American citizens. How about that Solyndra success !!
Outstanding "Leadership" for a community organizer. Has NO PLAN for Debt reduction !!! Has no plan for anything --except Golf and Vacations !!

Wow tos --old white men you throw under the bus --old white women --you want driving the bus --while her old white male partner will continue his single handed -not really HAND -war on women.

 

[island1fox]

Funny and sad about kool aid crowd:

1. Hoffa and Hall against a Big Corporation --failed in many people's opinion here -Powerful union guys caved!!

2. Many people here would see a lowly Business Manager --make NO improvements in a very tough Union Center -after one year --and call him a loser.

3. Many people here would see a shop stew or BA do their very best against an aggressive management team ---yet will call them losers after a year.

The most powerful man in the WORLD !!!
Total Control for two full years ----
1. Slowest job recovery in Nations History --Bushes Fault
2. Very slow job Growth ---Technology's Fault.
3. No Tax Reform ---Republican's fault
4. No punitive tax legislation to punish Companies outsourcing ( Obama outsources)
5. Obama claimed he would work across the aisle --Total Gridlock
6.Obama claimed -total Change --no buying influence ---HA! HA!
7. No Entitlement Reform ---Gridlock --Debt continues to rise.
8. Democrats always preached --Pay as you Go --Obama --just spend it --who cares
9. Obama raising the debt and borrowing -Unpatriotic --now spends --no CUTS !!-Debt skyrockets.
10. All Vacations, Parties --Golf --Air force One date night --all just a drop in the bucket !!
11. California Water Shortage --Solution -Go play Golf with Rich people on Courses using a million gallons a day!!
12. Still spending money in Iraq --Afgan --Obama SURGED that war -Hello !!

Obama will be in office for the next two years --claim to fame --Obamacare that the vast majority of American's of all political stripes --see the disaster rolling out.
13. Obama claimed Bush abused power with Executive orders ---Hello --look in the mirror.

The most powerful man in His FIFTH year ----Of course it is Bushes and Republican's fault ????

Just listen to any "man in the street" interviews ----That is the real problem !! Have no idea what is going on !

Many of those same "cheerleaders" are here . Get out of the past --Get out of the Political party--

How about our next President is held accountable to THEIR promises--Interested in America --not the Party, their Power and the lobbies !!

 

[Nimnim]

I could spend 20 minutes searching for breakdowns of how the costs of the wars over 2 presidents lay out, or how letting banks fail may have been worse than bailing them out, but my point stands. The federal government for at least the past 10 years is spending too much. You can blame Bush, you can blame Obama, but both are at fault, and a good chunk of congress is as well.

The blame game will solve nothing at this point, or ever. We need good economic policy that spurs real growth, not just people dropping out of the job market to lower the unemployment rate, and cuts to federal spending that will help reduce the debt or at the very least keep it from growing faster than the gdp.

 

[The Other Side]

I could spend 20 minutes searching for breakdowns of how the costs of the wars over 2 presidents lay out, or how letting banks fail may have been worse than bailing them out, but my point stands. The federal government for at least the past 10 years is spending too much. You can blame Bush, you can blame Obama, but both are at fault, and a good chunk of congress is as well.

The blame game will solve nothing at this point, or ever. We need good economic policy that spurs real growth, not just people dropping out of the job market to lower the unemployment rate, and cuts to federal spending that will help reduce the debt or at the very least keep it from growing faster than the gdp.

You cant have a good economic policy if 90% of things america makes is made in another country. Reducing taxes on corporations will do nothing and have a zero effect on creating jobs in the USA.

Allowing corporations to take their companies to the pacific rim and then allow their products back into the USA without FEES or TAXES only makes the situation worse for american workers.

The goverment has to spend MORE money because the american corporation has all but abandoned the american worker, so somebody has to pick up that slack.

Then, you had a president who started two wars for no apparent reason and crippled a nation, leaving the next president with the mess to clean up.

You cant have a duplication of previous growth patterns Nimnim because our infrastructure isnt the same. Growth at 4% is nearly impossible with no corporations to support that growth here in the USA.

Fortunately, President OBAMA has created new industries that have created thousands of new companies like solar, wind and even plastic grass made from recyclables.

In the past, we built cars, clothes, shoes, book, furniture, pencils, paper, appliances and such, and now, all of that is made in another country.

We have nothing to fall back on thanks to republican policies.

What we do have, is lower paying jobs because employers would rather hire an illegal than an american.

The american worker has been squeezed out by corporate greed. Nobody looked long term at these policies when they were created.

TOS.

 

[island1fox]

Nim,
I agree -we can easily fall into the "blame game trap"

The saddest part of this whole thing ----I believed the Speeches and the Campaign on Hope and Change.
I believed that a young ,educated man familiar with the problems of the average person ---would go in with bold and fresh ideas and truly change the same old -same old Political game.

The support and power President Obama had was outstanding across the Country when he first took office.
What he could have done -and accomplished -would have been extraordinary !!!
Instead President Obama in his very first meeting told McCain and the opposing party that elections have "consequences"
Of course we know what happened next ---even Liberals like Barney Frank have said the Economy and Jobs should have been the very top priority.

What we got was the ultra Political --my way or the Highway --OBAMACARE !!!

Truly sad ---He had the Opportunity of a lifetime --to be Uniter rather than divider --He could have thrown the influence and power buyers out ---Instead --He became one of them !!

Just the same old same old ---with the same old "cheerleaders"

 

[roadrunner2012]

The saddest part of this whole thing ----I believed the Speeches and the Campaign on Hope and Change.
I believed that a young ,educated man familiar with the problems of the average person ---would go in with bold and fresh ideas and truly change the same old -same old Political game.
The support and power President Obama had was outstanding across the Country when he first took office.
What he could have done -and accomplished -would have been extraordinary !!!

So you voted for him?

 

[The Other Side]

Nim,
I agree -we can easily fall into the "blame game trap"

The saddest part of this whole thing ----I believed the Speeches and the Campaign on Hope and Change.
I believed that a young ,educated man familiar with the problems of the average person ---would go in with bold and fresh ideas and truly change the same old -same old Political game.

The support and power President Obama had was outstanding across the Country when he first took office.
What he could have done -and accomplished -would have been extraordinary !!!
Instead President Obama in his very first meeting told McCain and the opposing party that elections have "consequences"
Of course we know what happened next ---even Liberals like Barney Frank have said the Economy and Jobs should have been the very top priority.

What we got was the ultra Political --my way or the Highway --OBAMACARE !!!

Truly sad ---He had the Opportunity of a lifetime --to be Uniter rather than divider --He could have thrown the influence and power buyers out ---Instead --He became one of them !!

Just the same old same old ---with the same old "cheerleaders"

YA, President Obama is the divider, this coming from a guy who supported his party's efforts to call Obama a non citizen for the first 4 years...

Ya, you got it all figured out.

TOS.

 

[island1fox]

YA, President Obama is the divider, this coming from a guy who supported his party's efforts to call Obama a non citizen for the first 4 years...

Ya, you got it all figured out.

TOS.

tos,

More diversion. Obama has no concept how to lead--how to plan --how to execute --how to get things done through working with opposition ----in other words ---He gives a good speech but is an "empty suit"

p.s. I said all along he was born in Hawaii. The obvious problem was that with a White Mommy and a White Grandpa and White Grandma --with NO Daddy in sight ---Obama on his official Birth certificate was born"White"

Certainly does not fit in with the race card that you and people like him live by !!

Not very hard to figure out --except for you and other cheerleaders --HE is and has been very divisive !!

 

[island1fox]

So you voted for him?

rr,

It should be no concern to you who I vote for.
In fact --it is NONE of your business !!

 

[bbsam]

Nim,
I agree -we can easily fall into the "blame game trap"

The saddest part of this whole thing ----I believed the Speeches and the Campaign on Hope and Change.
I believed that a young ,educated man familiar with the problems of the average person ---would go in with bold and fresh ideas and truly change the same old -same old Political game.

The support and power President Obama had was outstanding across the Country when he first took office.
What he could have done -and accomplished -would have been extraordinary !!!
Instead President Obama in his very first meeting told McCain and the opposing party that elections have "consequences"
Of course we know what happened next ---even Liberals like Barney Frank have said the Economy and Jobs should have been the very top priority.

What we got was the ultra Political --my way or the Highway --OBAMACARE !!!

Truly sad ---He had the Opportunity of a lifetime --to be Uniter rather than divider --He could have thrown the influence and power buyers out ---Instead --He became one of them !!

Just the same old same old ---with the same old "cheerleaders"

Well, you started out paying lip service to not falling into the "blame game" but you just can't help yourself, can you?

 

[roadrunner2012]

rr,

It should be no concern to you who I vote for.
In fact --it is NONE of your business !!

Hey, you said you believed. Maybe you didn't really believe, because if you did, you wouldn't be afraid to admit who you voted for.

I voted for the Kenyan, muslin, socialist fascist.

I didn't believe the hype, though. I'm old enough to recognize a politician. I'd rather have a politician than an oligarch snake oil salesman, though.

 

[island1fox]

rr,


As usual --Missed the point. Massive Public support behind Him --Obama let the Opportunity to truly change things pass him by .

Also -it was not hype --it was Lies. Also better check the definition of Oligarch--Seems to fit Obama like a Glove --holding his Pen And phone !!

 

[island1fox]

Well, you started out paying lip service to not falling into the "blame game" but you just can't help yourself, can you?

bbsam,

Some people can clearly see the difference of "Blaming" or just recognizing reality.

I am not "blaming" Obama for not doing what HE said he was going to do --just pointing out the dishonesty.

Just like "If you like your Health Plan and Your Doctor--You can keep them" I am not blaming Obama for saying that repeatedly --I am stating the fact that it is NOT true.

Very different than Blame !

 

[realbrown1]

How much did the bush tax cuts in 2001 ADD to the deficit during Obamas watch? How much did the Bush tax extentions ADD to the deficit during Obamas watch.


TOS.