FedEX 4 Life
Well-Known Member
friend of mine just retired with 26 years of service.Gross pay is 1900 a month -400 to keep his befefits.Prett weak if you ask me.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
Was that before May 31, 2008, or after? Makes a big difference. Your numbers would be correct if he retired BEFORE May 31, 2008... under the old DBPP.
FedEx courier
Well-Known Member
If you know exactly what they do to other employees then why are you in their corner? It doesn't make sense? Even if they aren't coming at you with the hatchet right now you know they can and will. I'm sure you aren't a bad person and are mainly doing a lot of talk on this site just to antagonize people but I wish you could think about what you've seen happen to other people and realize that it could happen to you very quickly.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
Under the PPP, FedEx is only "contributing" 5% of annual gross to the balance each year. Under the conversion from the DBPP, there was a large lump sum contribution made to an employees balance based upon years of service and annual pay. This was deliberately scaled to keep the differences between monthly pensions between those that retired before May 31, 2008 and after relatively close. However... the disparity between the DBPP will slowly increase the longer an employee works under the PPP.
For an employee hired in on June 1, 2008 planning to retire May 31, 2033, the difference between the two plans will be amazing. I created an Excel Sheet with the following assumptions (this makes the BIG assumption that FedEx continues to operate the same for the next 25 years as it has for the last, yes I know, faulty assumption):
1) Starting wage of $15/hr hires in at age 25.
2) Average pay increase of 5.5% (don't laugh) until top out. Top out will occur in 2025 at $37.19/hr
3) 3% Annual Inflation rate
4) Retirement in 2033 at $47.11/hr, age 50. Sounds like a lot now, but the inflation index then will be 2.09, so divide $47.11 in 2033 dollars by 2.09 to get 2009 dollars, which is a $22.54/hr pay rate (I just proved that when a Courier tops out, so does their standard of living, it is a dead end job).
5) 2084 Regular hours worked in a year, and an assumption of 10% additional pay due to overtime
6) 4% earnings on annual contributions of FedEx.
The balance in the PPP on May 31, 2033 for this employee would be $138,188.55. Assuming the balance keeps on earning interest at the astounding rate of 4%, on May 31, 2043 (age 60) the balance would be $205,500. Sounds like a lot, it isn't. First remember these are 2043 dollars. Divide by the inflation index of 2.81 to get 2009 dollars, which is $72,657. This is what a 25 year career gets the employee under the PPP, a 2009 dollar amount of $72,657.
The annual gross for this employee for 2032-33 would be $108,000 in "then" dollars ($51,674 in 2009 dollars). So once an employee tops out, standard of living tops out too, there is no further growth in real income.
So, under the PPP an employee would retire with $66,119 2009 dollars in their account. If the employee starts drawing at age 60, there would be $72,657 in 2009 dollars in the balance. Say you manage to hold on till age 75, the monthly pension payment would be $537.43 in 2009 dollars.
Let's compare this to the old DBPP.
Average of high 3 (or 5) times years of service (max of 25) times 2% for annual pension, divided by 12 for monthly payment.
The average would be $101,884. In 2043 this equals $36,257 in 2009 dollars. Take this times 25 times 2% and divide by 12 to get monthly pension. I get $1,510.70 a month. Compare this to the PPP amount of $537.43 (all in 2009 dollars).
The new hire lost TWO-THIRDS of their pension!!!!
For an employee hired in on June 1, 2008 planning to retire May 31, 2033, the difference between the two plans will be amazing. I created an Excel Sheet with the following assumptions (this makes the BIG assumption that FedEx continues to operate the same for the next 25 years as it has for the last, yes I know, faulty assumption):
1) Starting wage of $15/hr hires in at age 25.
2) Average pay increase of 5.5% (don't laugh) until top out. Top out will occur in 2025 at $37.19/hr
3) 3% Annual Inflation rate
4) Retirement in 2033 at $47.11/hr, age 50. Sounds like a lot now, but the inflation index then will be 2.09, so divide $47.11 in 2033 dollars by 2.09 to get 2009 dollars, which is a $22.54/hr pay rate (I just proved that when a Courier tops out, so does their standard of living, it is a dead end job).
5) 2084 Regular hours worked in a year, and an assumption of 10% additional pay due to overtime
6) 4% earnings on annual contributions of FedEx.
The balance in the PPP on May 31, 2033 for this employee would be $138,188.55. Assuming the balance keeps on earning interest at the astounding rate of 4%, on May 31, 2043 (age 60) the balance would be $205,500. Sounds like a lot, it isn't. First remember these are 2043 dollars. Divide by the inflation index of 2.81 to get 2009 dollars, which is $72,657. This is what a 25 year career gets the employee under the PPP, a 2009 dollar amount of $72,657.
The annual gross for this employee for 2032-33 would be $108,000 in "then" dollars ($51,674 in 2009 dollars). So once an employee tops out, standard of living tops out too, there is no further growth in real income.
So, under the PPP an employee would retire with $66,119 2009 dollars in their account. If the employee starts drawing at age 60, there would be $72,657 in 2009 dollars in the balance. Say you manage to hold on till age 75, the monthly pension payment would be $537.43 in 2009 dollars.
Let's compare this to the old DBPP.
Average of high 3 (or 5) times years of service (max of 25) times 2% for annual pension, divided by 12 for monthly payment.
The average would be $101,884. In 2043 this equals $36,257 in 2009 dollars. Take this times 25 times 2% and divide by 12 to get monthly pension. I get $1,510.70 a month. Compare this to the PPP amount of $537.43 (all in 2009 dollars).
The new hire lost TWO-THIRDS of their pension!!!!
FedEx courier
Well-Known Member
He's right again, any FedEx express employee reading this should investigate and they will find it to be true! He isn't joking!
FedEX 4 Life
Well-Known Member
Hes been retired for over a year now,maybe even 2.If he retired after May 31 2008 what would the difference make?
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
This means he is under the DBPP. He made it out in time.
It is difficult to state precisely what his pension would've been if he had retired on or after June 1, 2008. There was a "smoke and mirror" scheme of assigning compensation credits based upon age and time of service as of June 2008. In general, the disparity between the DBPP and the PPP will start out small for those that have retired in the year since PPP went into effect and will gradually widen until those that hired-on after the switch will receive only about a third of what they would've under DBPP.
Quite a few employees decided in early 2008 to retire before May 31, to preserve their DBPP. For many it was a difficult decision to stay. They wanted to protect what pension they had, but couldn't find another job quick enough to bail-out before the involuntary switch to the PPP.
The employees within 5 or so years of a "full retirement" (25 years plus), will take about a 30% hit to their pension under the PPP. That "hit" will gradually increase for younger employees till the "hit" is about 65% of the amount that would've been paid under DBPP for new hires right now.
But all this ignores the pending business model of FedEx. The full time wage employee is going to be gradually converted to a part-time employee. I keep on coming back to the same thing over and over, there will be no full time wage employees in Express if Fred can change the business model like he wants. Part-time employees that work for 5 years on average for an employer DON'T CARE what the pension plan is, all they want is immediate benefits and a predictable schedule. That is what Fred is planning on offering.
This is why the PPP was enacted; it greatly reduced a future liability for Express. In addition, the "balance" in the PPP is held by FedEx, allowing them to use it for business purposes and only pay 4% annual interest. Not many businesses have a non-revokable line of credit that they pay 4% interest on.
This explains why Fred is fighting so hard to keep Express and Ground union free. Even if it costs him $100 million to keep the unions out, he'll make that back in a matter of months with the reduced compensation levels he pays line employees. For Fred, this is a make or break propositon. By keeping the unions out and compensation at ridiculous levels, he has a built in profit margin over any competitor, especially UPS.
For the uneducated employee (yes, there is no way around it, most wage employees don't have a clue as to what the issues really are), they continue to believe that FedEx and Fred are looking out for them. Reality couldn't be any further from that false belief. The wage employees are being abused to further the profit goals of executive management. Even the salaried employees have been tossed under the bus by FedEx now. They are under the PPP too, and they know very well how much they lost. The question is how many will remain once the economy improves. From what I've heard from my friends in Memphis and locally, many will be jumping ship once the economy turns around.
This is starting to cause problems for FedEx. A large segment of what I'd call "problem solving employees" are now becoming problems for FedEx. These people can see problems and solve them....... problem is, there IS a problem with FedEx now and it can't be solved. So what is this intelligent employee to do? Make preparations for abandoning ship and getting away from the impending shipwreck.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Richochet, you could always become a contractor. Your mind grasps business very well. I would be willing to bet that you would be able to find the gray areas in the contract and exploit them to sizable profit in no time at all.
Perhaps he's ethical enough to not "exploit" the gray areas (drivers). That isn't an issue for you, is it?
FedEx Trade Networks
Member
Why would any company welcome the idea of employees discussing unions?
FedEx courier
Well-Known Member
The big joke here is that many companies have "welcomed the idea of employees discussing unions". The reason being is that the company only wanted to deal with one Union,in cases where they are classified under the NLRA . Also some companies have actually wanted an honest relationship between employees and management. Southwest Airlines is an example of a company which prides itself on being very honest with it's employees in this manner.
This philosphy certainly does dictate the relationship between management and employee at FedEx. It is the out right lies that only add to the mistrust between employee and management at FedEx. You admit they are anti-union,but a statement by Maury Lane claims that they aren't. The statement "FedEx is not anti-union; nothing could be further from the truth," Mr. Lane said."only proves this dishonesty.
It's been said so many times that if FedEx is not anti-union and FedEx employees think they are so great then FedEx would not care what classification was changed because their employees wouldn't vote it in. This situation does not get any simplier than that.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Fred says FedEx isn't anti-union and so do his minions. So, why does he behave the way he does? He says one thing and then does another. Isn't that a lie?
In other words, why would someone who is anti-union do absolutely everything in their power to keep the union out? Fred is a liar, Maury Lane is Fred's oracle of lies, and the entire management team are co-liars because to mouth anything else would mean the end of one's career at FedEx. Confusing, but true.
No, as a matter of fact it isn't. And should you ever read a ground contract maybe you too could find the true gray area.
All the pro Fedex folks on this site are wrong when they say the battle is over.This battle is far from over and it looks like we're gaining some momentum. Keep calling and writing your elected officials and letting them know how important it is to get the express carrier protection act included in the final Faa bill. From what I'm being told, we're in a really good spot right now and we need to keep the pressure coming.
O
olcc
Guest
FedEx Trade Networks, why are you even here? If you really work for FedEx (doubtful), why wouldn't you support your fellow employees? You obviously have no idea what this job entails and what we put up with day in and day out.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Isn't paying Ground drivers a pittance an inherent part of the Ground model? If you actually had to pay a living wage and provide a benefit package your entire profit structure would be destroyed. It is exploitative by design. Please explain how else Fred's master plan would work? Why do think El Cheapo bought RPS is the first place?
I await your tap dance around the truth.
FedEx courier
Well-Known Member
I got my pension statement in the mail the other day. It said I have a little over 7000 for a lump sum or a little over 70 a month for a monthly payout. I was thinking with this hefty retirement I could move to Barbados and buy a mansion! I have over 17 years with the company, maybe if I worked until I was about 172 I could afford to pay my rent on the FedEx portable pension plan. Even at the bottom of that there was a statement that said the amounts were subject to change based on the descretion of the employer. I guess "operational need" applies to the FedEx portable pension plan just like everything else at FedEx. What a freaking joke!!!!!!
Once again "Fedex 4 life", if you actually worked for the company you would know that there isn't a FedEx pension anymore. It's just another example of FedEx calling something a name that it isn't. I mean this in the most unsarcastic way that it can possible be stated, YOU ARE A JOKE FEDEX 4 LIFE, AND YOU LOOK MORE FAKE WITH EVERY STATEMENT THAT YOU POST!!!!!!!!
FedEx courier
Well-Known Member
You are exactly right! The FedEx plant trolls on this site don't want anyone to get involved so they've been calling this over from the beginning. You can see the desperation if you look at brownbailout.com, they've have three trolls over there posting as different people spouting about the evils of Unions. They wouldn't even have that sight if they weren't worried about this, this company doesn't spend money unless it has to, we all know that. Every FedEx employee reading any of this that wants a voice in their work environment should follow Broke's lead and get involved!
No tap dance here. "A living wage" sounds like something out of the 1970's. Ground is what it is. Maybe I won't have employees for 30 years. Maybe I don't want to. Being a Ground driver can be a stepping stone to a contractor or convince the driver he wants nothing to do with the company. I've seen both happen. Or being a Ground driver can be a decent 2nd income for a family. Truth is that single income families were on the way out 30 years ago and if President Obama can't get healthcare done that and other benefits will continue to erode exponentially. Just look at Ground as being on the cutting edge of the coming draconianism. Oh. You already do.
FedEx Courier, I agree with you about the $70/month but what happened to the rest of your pension? How did you loose it? I thought that once you had it, it could not be taken away? I'm pretty sure you still have it. How much is that pension per month? If you've been at FedEx for 17 years, I would think it's at least $1000/month unless you've been part time for all those years?I got my pension statement in the mail the other day. It said I have a little over 7000 for a lump sum or a little over 70 a month for a monthly payout. I was thinking with this hefty retirement I could move to Barbados and buy a mansion! I have over 17 years with the company, maybe if I worked until I was about 172 I could afford to pay my rent on the FedEx portable pension plan. Even at the bottom of that there was a statement that said the amounts were subject to change based on the descretion of the employer. I guess "operational need" applies to the FedEx portable pension plan just like everything else at FedEx. What a freaking joke!!!!!!
Once again "Fedex 4 life", if you actually worked for the company you would know that there isn't a FedEx pension anymore. It's just another example of FedEx calling something a name that it isn't. I mean this in the most unsarcastic way that it can possible be stated, YOU ARE A JOKE FEDEX 4 LIFE, AND YOU LOOK MORE FAKE WITH EVERY STATEMENT THAT YOU POST!!!!!!!!
