The Policies That Failed

[Oldfart]

I think you've got the Declaration of Independence mixed up with the Constitution. More like over 220 years ago.

220 240 whatever it takes.

 

[59 Dano]

Do you people forget that trump lost the populist vote.

That's the popular vote, and losing it means as much as winning it: nothing.

 

[59 Dano]

Again........ He lost the popular vote. You guys should use all this political knowledge you keep trying to tell me and apply it to your own brain. Trump lost the popular vote. Trump lost the popular vote. He won by electoral college. Oldfart you do realize that more people actually voted for Clinton. Meaning he lost the popular vote. Trump lost the popular vote. Do you understand what that means??

It means that you're focusing on an irrelevant metric. You might as well be taking a knife to a gunfight.

 

[59 Dano]

I believe the point is to emphasize he does not have a popular mandate. Despite running as a populist, the majority of voters choose someone else.

I believe he won. He's just as much the president-elect now as he would be if he won the popular vote by a 2 to 1 margin.

 

[59 Dano]

Yeah I bet people are . More people voted for Clinton yet oldafarts lord and savior won by technicality.

How did he win by technicality? The electoral vote count has always elected the president.

 

[59 Dano]

Voter ID laws are designed to suppress minority votes.

What are other ID laws/policies designed to do?

 

[59 Dano]

Right. So the new tactic is to avoid the press and say nothing? I don't recall any Democrats going racial on Republicans, and what Trump's advisor said was extreme, as in wanting Obama dead (literally), and postulating that Michelle should return to the jungle and consort with the apes. Anyone with even a shred of decency would kick this jerk to the curb, but he's still within Trump's inner circle and denies none of what he said. Disturbing.

He was neither an advisor nor part of his inner circle.

Thanks for playing.

 

[59 Dano]

The ACLU has a good page on voter ID law

Oppose Voter ID Legislation - Fact Sheet
You might like the part where it's a giant waste of taxpayer money. Indiana spent $10 mil on their implementation. The laws are absolutely about voter suppression since there are few if any actual cases of in person voter fraud. It's a stupid "problem" to be solving. The penalties for voter fraud vastly outweigh any potential gain, that's why it doesn't happen.

"We don't want to put any effort into investigating voter fraud, which means that we won't find much, which means that it's not worth investigating."

Many GOP lawmakers have freely admitted the laws are about suppressing minority voters.

Name six.

As for voter intimidation, we don't need lawsuits. Trump advocated it while campaigning. How many people took him up on it is besides the point. The new leader of the free world told his supporters to head to polls and intimidate voters not likely to support him. It's despicable.

They were the ones wearing "I hate Trump" shirts.

 

[59 Dano]

If you score less points but still win the game. That's a technicality.

The electoral votes are the points, and DJT scored more.

 

[59 Dano]

Your boy is totally avoiding the press, a charge he leveled against Clinton.

He isn't running for office anymore, nor does he hold office at this point. "Hey everyone, I still haven't been sworn in."

Oh, yeah. In 2012, Trump said the Electoral College was "a disaster". When it worked for him in 2016, it was "genius".

And?

 

[Oldfart]

Voter ID laws are designed to suppress minority votes. They've been a staple of GOP policy for years. Trump encouraged poll watchers to intimidate minority voters. It's what republicans do. When the Supreme Court said a bunch of southern states no longer needed federal approval for voter laws they immediately passed a bunch of racist voter suppression laws that never would have cleared federal approval.
So yes republican tactics work at gaining power, but don't pretend there's a mandate.

The poor and minority people do not have a legal ID to show to vote? How do they conduct any type of business? I bet I have to show my ID at least 3 or 4 times every month in just everyday life, nothing to do with work? I know my state even offered a state issued ID to people that did not have or need a drivers license. Can't get much easier than that.

 

[MAKAVELI]

The media and fake news will continue to dismiss and marginalize middle America. Portraying them as the problem and reason why "Fascism" prevailed. People aren't buying it. This interracial porno that is democracy will continue to move people emotionally. Let's have voter ID laws! No, that's racist. Let's import thousands of Somali's and other shades of cappuccino to more rural areas in hopes of changing the electoral college make up.
Rational, level headed people should be pleased they live in a country where Southern California and Manhattan do not decide every election. It's cringe worthy frustration with a shade of comedy when I see John McCain and Lindsey Graham being interviewed on CNN about the danger of Russia and Vladimir Putin. Basically, they are saying the young kids in our country are free to die in mindless Middle East wars that we provoke, but never to start unapproved political movements, or support outside candidates. Blah, blah.

Dude you are so racist you don't even know it. Lol

 

[Oldfart]

Dude you are so racist you don't even know it. Lol

Anyone that disagrees with you must be a racist.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Anyone that disagrees with you must be a racist.

Anyone who uses phrases like " interracial porno", " import thousands of Somalis and other shades of cappuccino" is racist.

 

[sandwich]

It means that you're focusing on an irrelevant metric. You might as well be taking a knife to a gunfight.

I don't even care. I was responding to certain people on here who were unclear about who was the actual popular president in this election.

 

[vantexan]

I don't even care. I was responding to certain people on here who were unclear about who was the actual popular president in this election.

No one was unclear. You don't seem to understand how presidents are elected. The electoral college was set up so that large states would have more of a say with more electoral votes, but they wouldn't have the only say. Thus everyone's voice would be heard. It's incumbent upon the candidates to try to win every state they can, and they get punished to the point of losing if they don't. Hillary made two tactical errors that really cost her. She said that she was going to shut down the coal industry and people would lose their jobs. That affected West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. A lot of normally rock solid Democrats in those States voted for Trump because of it. She called at least half of Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables" which energized his base against her. Her husband was an astute politician who wouldn't have made those errors. I know you want to put the blame on Republicans, Russians, whoever, but you can't get around the fact that Hillary had a huge cloud of suspicion hanging over her with the email scandal and the foundation. You can't get around the fact that she and her husband got super rich giving speeches, and when she spoke to Wall Street she did so behind closed doors and wouldn't release the transcripts. She looked like she was beholden to the super rich while Trump was telling desperate people he was going to bring them jobs. She was going to continue Obama's policies when millions saw no prospects for better jobs under Obama. Campaigns matter and Trump did a better job conveying to people what they wanted to hear in areas where it was crucial to win to get elected. The presidency doesn't belong to any one party. No one is entitled to it. You've got to earn it, and be smart about it. MFE likes to rag on Trump, calling him stupid. Well I just saw a guy with no political experience win without spending huge sums of money, playing the press like a fiddle. Same guy who became a billionaire in a business full of sharks. He may ultimately disappoint, he may not. But he beat a bunch of career politicians at their own game and defied all the naysayers who scoffed at him.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

How did he win by technicality? The electoral vote count has always elected the president.

In the vast majority of those elections their vote count has basically been a technicality.

 

[Serf]

Dude you are so racist you don't even know it. Lol

And you are so quintessentially American it is funny.

 

[Maui]

If you look at it from the electoral college viewpoint, he won by the biggest margin in decades. The electoral college has been in place for more than 200 years. If Democrats are determined to win the presidency they should move to Red states to make their vote count. And don't forget that Republicans now control 2/3rds of state governorships and legislative bodies. When Obama came into office in 2008 the Dems had large majorities in both Houses. Look at it now. I'd say the Republicans have a clear mandate to affect change.

Seriously? I think this a perfect example of how easily many voters are duped. You have to go ALL THE WAY BACK to 2012 to see a bigger electoral vote win. Come on. You seem to study history, but fell for this.

B.S. You have to have a picture I.D. to drive and fly. Requiring it to vote, which is in 34 states if I remember right, has never been proven to prevent people to vote. Where are the lawsuits about voter intimidation? Where? Those claims were made in both Bush vs Gore and vs Kerry yet not one lawsuit was filed, not one state attorney filed charges. Liberals can't stand to lose, and tear everything up when they do. And use every excuse possible other than the majority wasn't satisfied with their performance and chose to try the other party. And yes, you'll say the majority DID vote Democrat, but not where it mattered. Learn the electoral college process and work it.

You do realize the Supreme Court changed provisions of the Voting Rights act, right? This was the first election in 50 years without the full, written protections of the VRA.

There are lots of lawsuits. Maybe just not visible in your news sources. If you are a white guy, then I would refrain from talking about voter suppression and intimidation when you are not likely to impacted by it. This whole country, for its entire history, has suppressed rights of minorities. That same history is alive and well today in unconstitutional attempts to make voting more difficult.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/30/u...s-down-north-carolina-voter-id-provision.html

The electoral college is an antiquated system. The same type of system that was used for centuries to select lords and kings in the middle ages, when territories where given proxy votes by leaders. I think most people understand what he EC is, but few understand its roots and how intricately linked it was to generating enough state support for the new Constitution in the slave states.

The recent Jill Stein recount found more votes cast in Detroit than actual voters. It's Democrats who always insist on no picture I.D., it's Democrats who say there's no fraud when there is, it's Democrats who always talk voter intimidation when there isn't any. No lawsuits, no state attorneys filing charges. There's that pesky undercover video of Democrat operatives talking of how they were starting fights at Trump rallies. True too, because the Clinton campaign fired them after video came out. There's the hacked emails showing the DNC helping Clinton against Sanders, and Brazille giving debate questions ahead of the first debate to Clinton. And you want to act like innocent kids being picked on by those mean bully Republicans. Right. And Trump didn't do any such thing.

Unfortunately, we will never know the number of votes in Detroit (some precincts reported this problem, not all) or Michigan because of state laws regarding recounts. We will not know the cause (election officials blame old equipment) or the true intent of those voters. Might it be something nefarious? Maybe. Might it be voter suppression that kicked voters off the poll books? Could be. We do not know and we won't know. I am of the opinion that an election should be free and fair and all the votes should be counted. I support hand counting with watchers from both parties (throw in Green and Libertarian if you want).

The point of the recount was not to give victory to the candidate that won the most votes (Hillary by nearly 3 million), but to attempt to get an accurate counting of the votes and highlight problems with our current electoral process. Perhaps inadvertently, you did just that in this quote. And the recount still did not give us all the info.

 

[sandwich]

No one was unclear. You don't seem to understand how presidents are elected. The electoral college was set up so that large states would have more of a say with more electoral votes, but they wouldn't have the only say. Thus everyone's voice would be heard. It's incumbent upon the candidates to try to win every state they can, and they get punished to the point of losing if they don't. Hillary made two tactical errors that really cost her. She said that she was going to shut down the coal industry and people would lose their jobs. That affected West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. A lot of normally rock solid Democrats in those States voted for Trump because of it. She called at least half of Trump supporters a "basket of deplorables" which energized his base against her. Her husband was an astute politician who wouldn't have made those errors. I know you want to put the blame on Republicans, Russians, whoever, but you can't get around the fact that Hillary had a huge cloud of suspicion hanging over her with the email scandal and the foundation. You can't get around the fact that she and her husband got super rich giving speeches, and when she spoke to Wall Street she did so behind closed doors and wouldn't release the transcripts. She looked like she was beholden to the super rich while Trump was telling desperate people he was going to bring them jobs. She was going to continue Obama's policies when millions saw no prospects for better jobs under Obama. Campaigns matter and Trump did a better job conveying to people what they wanted to hear in areas where it was crucial to win to get elected. The presidency doesn't belong to any one party. No one is entitled to it. You've got to earn it, and be smart about it. MFE likes to rag on Trump, calling him stupid. Well I just saw a guy with no political experience win without spending huge sums of money, playing the press like a fiddle. Same guy who became a billionaire in a business full of sharks. He may ultimately disappoint, he may not. But he beat a bunch of career politicians at their own game and defied all the naysayers who scoffed at him.

You don't seem to understand. I'm fully aware of how the electoral college system works. Im not even complaining about the system. I really don't care. I'm just here to correct people when they say that trump crushed it. Or that he is the populist president. That is wrong. Trump supporters are the biggest group of sore winners I've ever seen. So ill leave this here for reference.