The Real Micheal Moore?

[satellitedriver]

Are most Liberal democrats rich?

Yes,
at least in Hollywood.
"Liberal democrats" are like the cereal "Grape Nuts".
There ain't no grapes and there ain't no nuts in "Grape Nuts."
PAX

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Michael Moore, the entertainer, the self promoter, the biased truth spinner who exaggerates and takes things out of context. Just one more form of shock entertainment.

In the film “Sicko”, Moore, with his vast medical training, takes Ground Zero responders to Cuba for medical treatment to prove that Castro's socialized medicine is such an enormous step up from our own health care. And you can bet Castro and Bro let Moore in on a very well balanced cross-section of his dysfunctional nation. Castro. Who had the escaping Cuban tugboat “13 De Marzo” sunk in July of 1994, drowning 41 innocent men and women and 12 kids. Cuba. Whose citizens are so thrilled with their own health care that they make rafts out of sugar cane and take their chances with sharks and hurricanes to escape. Who convert old Buicks and Mercury’s into boats in desperate attempts to flee the hellhole. Cuba. Where food is rationed according to age. Where milk is given only to the elderly and children up to the age of seven years. Cuba. Where, because food is so scarce, malnutrition and blindness are rampant. In an attempt to feed their families, thousands of Cubans are considered “criminals" and imprisoned for breaking the law when they kill their own pigs, cattle and horses.

I have a friend who escaped from Cuba in 1973 and wouldn’t make it out alive if she went back to visit. And at a dollar a minute when she calls home, nobody can say much because the lines are tapped.

A true story about a UPS mgr who took his wife to Cuba on vaca a couple of years back - Cheap vacation. Where he got sick and ended up in a hospital (a real filth hole) and found that, among other things, if he wanted clean linens, towels and a hospital gown, somebody had to takes them home, wash them and bring them back.

So, so much for all the non-Americans who come to our hospitals for treatments that aren’t available with socialized medicine (but which Moore hopes we can emulate!!!) Check out the guy with TB who freaked the whole nation out when he fled Italy (whose socialized medicine who couldn’t treat him) and came to Denver for privatized care.

I can’t wait for MORE “ M..M. Hot Air” where we will once again learn what a failure we are as a people and a nation.

After all, you do remember the last time a boatful of starving, rag clad Americans fought their way the island of Cuba and begged for sanctuary, don’t you?

Good posting. Universal Health Care and Global Warming cause by man are two of the largest sources of propoganda comming from the left these days. Universal Health care, free health care, or whatever one choses to call it, is just like any other socialized program. Yeah, in theory it sounds good but in reality it doesn't work. Well, wouldn't you know it??.....that applies to socialism in general! LOL! When are these people going to realize that when something that once had value is offered for free the quality goes away too. Not just the monetary value. The same principle works for health care. Once it's free the quality of care reflects how much it's worth.

 

[diesel96]

Yes,
at least in Hollywood.
"Liberal democrats" are like the cereal "Grape Nuts".
There ain't no grapes and there ain't no nuts in "Grape Nuts."
PAX

Are you going to add something pertinent to this thread or just going to waste our time and call Liberals name?
Talk about making any sense, "Grape nuts"=Liberals
What does protecting/improving the working class rights have to do with liberals?
I guess in the conservative's one track mind there's no such thing as mainstream and middle of the road or progressive Dems. "Ok Bubba", lets just label ALL non-conservatives a Liberal.

In the film “Sicko”, Moore, with his vast medical training, takes Ground Zero responders to Cuba for medical treatment to prove that Castro's socialized medicine is such an enormous step up from our own health care.

...Moore took ground zero reponders to Cuba to show the Terrorist were getting better healhcare service at Guantanamo than our own heroic ground zero responders were getting at home.The main point is access to service not quality of service.

Whose citizens are so thrilled with their own health care that they make rafts out of sugar cane and take their chances with sharks and hurricanes to escape. Who convert old Buicks and Mercury’s into boats in desperate attempts to flee the hellhole.

Cubans didn't risk their lives and flee Cuba over healhcare..try political persecution and economics

 

[tieguy]

Nice sermation Tie,but there a few items you left out.
Who grows the food for the horse's ass,?processes it? ,distributes it?,packages it?,ships it?
Who builds the stall high on the hill for the horse?Chops down the lumber?Processes it?Dist. and ships it?

Thats right,the underpaid,under apreciated,under educated(cause they can't afford college or trade school),unhealhty(cause they can't afford private medical)majority working class sparrows.

anyone serious of going through college can take advantage of studen loans and put theirselves through college.

Even the sparrows with special skills,trades,and hire education Are looking up the Corp.horses ass because the benefits only help the minority rich and the lucky sperm club.

Don't see. I'm putting a couple of kids through college right now. they have friends. some of their friends have the rich daddies some borrow the money and do it all on their own. The opportunity is there.
Don't forget the horse is headless without food and a roof over his head.So if the horse takes that for granted he may find himself in front of a meatgrinder being prepared for the overwhelming numbers of the starving sparrows.

The true problem here is you telling the sparrow the horses are supposed to feed them because they the sparrows are too stupid to feed theirselves. In turn the sparrows develop a dependence on you to feed them and never learn how to feed theirselves.

 

[Sammie]

Whose citizens are so thrilled with their own health care that they make rafts out of sugar cane and take their chances with sharks and hurricanes to escape. Who convert old Buicks and Mercury’s into boats in desperate attempts to flee the hellhole.

Cubans didn't risk their lives and flee Cuba over healhcare..try political persecution and economics

Diesel, I think you’d argue the paint off a wall if you thought it would remove itself. Health care is a vital part of one’s life and Cuba, one of the last remaining Communist govts, has a health network that provides one physician for every 400 people. As a parent, don’t you think Cubans are concerned with the health and welfare of their families, especially their children? In a country where outbreaks of lice and scabies are commonplace, where TB and dengue fever are making a big come back, wouldn’t you think that decent health care might be an issue?

But, wait. I nearly forgot Michael Moore’s Wish for America…

!!Cuban Healthcare!!

God, I love how the man cherry picks the facts.

For your viewing pleasure, a peak inside a couple of Cuban
hospitals -

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004070.php

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/005557.html

http://freethoughts.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/the-cuba-michael-moore-wont-show-you/

And speaking of children, were you cheering on that hot babe Janet Reno when she defied the courts and ordered INS officers, armed with helmets and assault rifles, to burst into a home and snatch up a screaming 6 year old Elian Gonzales? And just in time for him to miss his asylum hearing!!! (I liked the part where they tear gassed the neighborhood even though no one even attempted to block the raid.)

You and I both know that Janet faithfully sends Elian a birthday card every year congratulating him on the privileged childhood he enjoyed in Cuba, which of course would never have been possible in Florida…

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Diesel, I think you’d argue the paint off a wall if you thought it would remove itself. Health care is a vital part of one’s life and Cuba, one of the last remaining Communist govts, has a health network that provides one physician for every 400 people. As a parent, don’t you think Cubans are concerned with the health and welfare of their families, especially their children? In a country where outbreaks of lice and scabies are commonplace, where TB and dengue fever are making a big come back, wouldn’t you think that decent health care might be an issue?

But, wait. I nearly forgot Michael Moore’s Wish for America…

!!Cuban Healthcare!!

God, I love how the man cherry picks the facts.

For your viewing pleasure, a peak inside a couple of Cuban
hospitals -

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004070.php

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/005557.html

http://freethoughts.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/the-cuba-michael-moore-wont-show-you/

And speaking of children, were you cheering on that hot babe Janet Reno when she defied the courts and ordered INS officers, armed with helmets and assault rifles, to burst into a home and snatch up a screaming 6 year old Elian Gonzales? And just in time for him to miss his asylum hearing!!! (I liked the part where they tear gassed the neighborhood even though no one even attempted to block the raid.)

You and I both know that Janet faithfully sends Elian a birthday card every year congratulating him on the privileged childhood he enjoyed in Cuba, which of course would never have been possible in Florida…

It's nice to see the truth about this. The conditions in the hospitals presented in those links are common through out Cuba. The Cuban government, much like any other Communist government, is only going to show the best case scenario. Or just an outright lie. It's just like North Korea setting up a makeshift town near the border that isn't even inhabited. Or like the Chinese building a school and throwing som kids in it and giving a human rights group a tour only to tear it down afte they leave. It's all a farce. Yes, Cuba has had many break throughs in medical science but to think they are applying it to the average Cuban and not just the corrupt elite communists is just wishfull thinking. Cherry picking? That's putting it mildly.

 

[wkmac]

Diesel, I think you’d argue the paint off a wall if you thought it would remove itself.

Sammie,
Now that was a good one!

"Grape nuts"=Liberals

Look at the bright side D. Grape Nuts taste good and they work well in moving along the intestinal tract!



"Argue paint off the wall!" Man that was a good laugh.

Thanks Satdriver!

 

[satellitedriver]

Are you going to add something pertinent to this thread or just going to waste our time and call Liberals name?
Talk about making any sense, "Grape nuts"=Liberals
What does protecting/improving the working class rights have to do with liberals?
I guess in the conservative's one track mind there's no such thing as mainstream and middle of the road or progressive Dems. "Ok Bubba", lets just label ALL non-conservatives a Liberal.]

I'll try not to waste your valuable time.
The grape nut analogy may have been lame, it was an adaptation of an old joke.
The liberal democrat of today is not the democrat party I grew up with. JFK, by most standards ,was far more conservative than GW is today. The entire notion that one is either/ or is ludicrous, in my way of thinking.
The hated Richard Nixon was very progressive in his administration( and just so you know, I voted for McGovern in 72').
Lately, it is the "liberals" that seem to wish to restrict free speech. All you have to do is label it "hate speech" when you do not agree with it. I am from the old school of liberals. We use to say,"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."
Those days are gone.
You seem to be the one willing to label freely. Calling someone one track minded conservatives that lump all Dems into one mind set is actually saying that you lump all non-Dems into one single close minded lump.
In answer to your question.
"What does protecting/improving the working class rights have to do with liberals?"
Not much.
So, from one bubba to another.
PAX

 

[Sammie]

Sammie,
Now that was a good one!

"Argue paint off the wall!" Man that was a good laugh.

Thanks, Wkmac.

Like the old saying goes, When Life Throws You Lemons, (or Stubborn People)...Make Lemonade, or Lemon Alfredo Sauce!

The way I see it, we enter this world flaming mad. Our heads
were squeezed through a 4 inch space, causing the plates in our skull to overlap one another and deform, our bones are jinglejangled and we come out crying (some of us recover better than others...)

So I figure for the rest of time we're here, we need some smiles....

 

[wkmac]

So I figure for the rest of time we're here, we need some smiles....

Amen to that. I know there are problems and matters we all wish were different but it's also very important to sit back and share a laugh together as much as you can. We may all have opinions of wide scope and some love to use one tag or another to label the other guy but in the end, we're all Americans and we'll sink or swim together.

Over the last 20 years or so I've noticed that the parties have changed from having both so-called liberals and conservatives among their ranks to now where if you are liberal, it's expected for you to be a democrat and if conservative it's expected for you to be a republican. Undying party loyality to the cause however is always a must and you will get blackballed if you don't play the game. IMO look no further than Ron Paul and Joe Lieberman to see that simple fact. Chuck Hagel to some degree and I still think Joe Biden has some good ideas worth discussion on Iraq but he's getting blocked out IMO on his side.

Back in the day when both types were in both parties you had a lot more cross party cooperation because you needed the consensus to get anywhere. The democrats had on one hand Ted Kennedy but then they also had a hardcore conservative like the late Larry McDonald. Repubs had a Phil Crane or even a young Ron Paul while they had the more liberal type in Nelson Rockerfeller. I mean even McGovern admitted he voted for Gerald Ford over his own party's choice of Jimmy Carter so the cross party thing was for real and people saw themselves as Americans first and foremost and then came the dynamic of party and conservative/liberal or that's how I see it anyway.

Now we find ourselves very divided along almost party lines and in comes the "liberal" or "conservative" tags, neo-con in many cases with conservatives, and the discourse has taken a completely different shift. People will even defend their elected party leaders but as I see it, the defense is of the ideas and mindset but it's been transposed onto the elected leaders based on party affliation in some type of cult of personality. It's almost like the Hollywood press and tabloids who publically loath and scold the Paris Hiltons, Nicole Richie, Lindsey Lohans and Brittney Spears of the world but the simple fact is, what would happen to them if these girls and others like her weren't around? How many of them would be package car loaders on some UPS Preload somewhere?

We've fashioned in many ways our leaders into the arca-types in the political realm of the ladies mentioned above and if we stop the cult of personality with gov't, then it comes down to the issues themselves but could we or better yet, would we be able to mentality throw away the early simpleton's way of dealing with gov't and use our brain matter to think about and resolves our various issues in a more grown up way? Wish I had the answer or anything close to one but I don't.

As for McGovern, in hindsight of 30 plus years we can now say that McGovern was right about Vietnam and had he instead of Nixon been elected, the country would have at least been spared Watergate. Vietnam still ended under Nixon as it was obvious what needed to happen but McGovern a the least was more honest up front about it. In fairness to Nixon, being the sitting President, maybe he didn't have the luxury of being that open and honest so then begs the question, what is wrong with our society when our elected officials can't be totally open and hinest?

What will be said 30 years from now about our current times? It may be close for me but hope I'm here to see it. I'd imagine I got a couple of things right and a lot of things wrong to be honest. Hopefully I'll get the chance to find out.

I know this got way away from Micheal Moore but Moore in one respect is representive of the greater problem in that early on, whether you agreed with him or not, he had a very independent, marvick stance on many issues and he wasn't and didn't allow himself to be definded with one party or the other. However, he did change all of that so that now what he has to say is seen not as a question of "why is stuff like this?" and "where did we go wrong or how do we correct it?" but rather his works are seen as nothing more than an extension of a political agenda.
I'll just leave it that and go forward.

I have enjoyed your many comments Sammie! Thanks for making me think. My brain could always use the exercise because my waistline sure doesn't get it!

 

[tieguy]

Thats right,the underpaid,under apreciated,under educated(cause they can't afford college or trade school),

you serious? student loans galore for anyone and everyone that wants to go to college. talk about a sermon my friend.

unhealhty(cause they can't afford private medical)majority working class sparrows.

This is good. I feel like I'm reading a charles dickens novel rather then listen to you tell me about the real world today.

Even the sparrows with special skills,trades,and hire education Are looking up the Corp.horses ass because the benefits only help the minority rich and the lucky sperm club.

Must be talking about the rich liberal democrats now.

 

[tieguy]

Whose citizens are so thrilled with their own health care that they make rafts out of sugar cane and take their chances with sharks and hurricanes to escape. Who convert old Buicks and Mercury’s into boats in desperate attempts to flee the hellhole.

Cubans didn't risk their lives and flee Cuba over healhcare..try political persecution and economics

ROFLMAO. let me get this right. You have hundreds of thousands of cuban fleeing cuba because of persecution and economics and yet you think those same leaders who provide the persecution and poor economics provide those people with a health care system better then ours?

And you believe this because michael moore went to cuba and filmed a staged propaganda event ochestrated by Castro?

ROFLMAO.

 

[diesel96]

For your viewing pleasure, a peak inside a couple of Cuban
hospitals -

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004070.php

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/005557.html

http://freethoughts.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/the-cuba-michael-moore-wont-show-you/

Sammie,just trading a little paint with you, Sad but true, but one can find dispicable condtions in our own privately funded healthcare country as well. In fact you can find deplorable facilities around the world. But singling out a facility in Cuba to convince the public via Rt Wing web links portraying the Cuban Healthcare system is all in all dissarray and people and cockroaches are running around like the plague is rampant demonstrates wishful tactics to downplay "Sicko" and promote our own unafforded Healthcare systems .

Although a year old, here's an outsider's view on the state of Cuba's healthcare system.There's always two sides to a story.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/5232628.stm

The way I see it, we enter this world flaming mad. Our heads
were squeezed through a 4 inch space, causing the plates in our skull to overlap one another and deform, our bones are jinglejangled and we come out crying (some of us recover better than others...)

As a man we spent 12 hrs entering this world thru a 4 inch space,and the rest of our lives trying to get back in.

 

[tieguy]

Thats the other point about the liberal democrat I despise. they are cowardly traitors to this country sucking up to the cubas and venezuelas and vietnams to thumb thier nose at their own country.

 

[satellitedriver]

For your viewing pleasure, a peak inside a couple of Cuban
hospitals -

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/004070.php

http://www.babalublog.com/archives/005557.html

http://freethoughts.wordpress.com/2007/07/03/the-cuba-michael-moore-wont-show-you/

Sammie,just trading a little paint with you, Sad but true, but one can find dispicable condtions in our own privately funded healthcare country as well. In fact you can find deplorable facilities around the world. But singling out a facility in Cuba to convince the public via Rt Wing web links portraying the Cuban Healthcare system is all in all dissarray and people and cockroaches are running around like the plague is rampant demonstrates wishful tactics to downplay "Sicko" and promote our own unafforded Healthcare systems .

Although a year old, here's an outsider's view on the state of Cuba's healthcare system.There's always two sides to a story.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/5232628.stm

The way I see it, we enter this world flaming mad. Our heads
were squeezed through a 4 inch space, causing the plates in our skull to overlap one another and deform, our bones are jinglejangled and we come out crying (some of us recover better than others...)

As a man we spent 12 hrs entering this world thru a 4 inch space,and the rest of our lives trying to get back in.

Hey Deisel,
Why go through this second hand.
On your next vacation fly to Venezuela. (Hiring a bodygaurd is optional, but recommended).
If you have not been kidnapped for ransom, book a flight to Havana.
When you get there just look around. Step on a rusty nail, cut your finger on an old tin can or just get diarrea from eating the local food.
Then, asked for medical attention.
After you have done this, let me know how it went.
My Aunt was born in Venezuela and left at the age of 70, because of the conditions.
Another friend excaped Cuba and relayed the true living conditions the common people have to endure to me.
Moore is only opportunistic in his endeavors.
IMO, if you poked M. Moore with a knife, pus would run out.

 

[moreluck]

Carracas was a stop on our Carribean cruise in '95.

Visiting an old historic church and I was surprised to see soldiers or police or whatever they were carrying machine guns. I heard gunfire in the distance. Scary place!!!

 

[satellitedriver]

Carracas was a stop on our Carribean cruise in '95.

Visiting an old historic church and I was surprised to see soldiers or police or whatever they were carrying machine guns. I heard gunfire in the distance. Scary place!!!

Back in 1972, I took my cousin from Caracas to an open air park concert on a Saturday afternoon. It was an every weekend event. Beer, yes back then some smoke, picnic blankets, dancing, friendship.
She told me they had to have their parties with less than 6 poeople or the police would break in. The government was afraid if too many people got together they may be plotting against them.
Things have only gotten worse since then.
Unless you believe M. Moore's B.S.
PAX

 

[diesel96]

you serious? student loans galore for anyone and everyone that wants to go to college. talk about a sermon my friend.

Next to Iraq, the student loan fiasco destroying affordable higher education and turning our children into lifelong debt serfs should be a central issue in the presidential campaign.
Those who want further Education and borrow money are punished in the end with high interest rates. Poor public planning to line the pockets of Fed and Private Banks while penalizing students especially from mid-low income families.

unhealhty(cause they can't afford private medical)majority working class sparrows.

This is good. I feel like I'm reading a charles dickens novel rather then listen to you tell me about the real world today.

Virtually all of the people who lost their coverage in recent years were solidly middle-class, full-time working American citizens $50,000K+/per yr.There are approx 45 to 50 millon Americans unisured and additionally, there are the tens of millions more whose insurance is so skimpy they would be bankrupted if they got sick.
The mainstream of American is now experiencing the human suffering that results from being uninsured. It makes any illness a potential economic and social catastrophe. By contrast, the experience of other industrialized nations teaches us that high-quality, comprehensive care can be provided to all our citizens without increasing health spending. A single-payer national health insurance system has emerged as only solution to the nation's health system debacle.

ROFLMAO. let me get this right. You have hundreds of thousands of cuban fleeing cuba because of persecution and economics and yet you think those same leaders who provide the persecution and poor economics provide those people with a health care system better then ours? ROFLMAO. let me get this right. You have hundreds of thousands of cuban fleeing cuba because of persecution and economics and yet you think those same leaders who provide the persecution and poor economics provide those people with a health care system better then ours?
Better in what way? Facilities? Technology? Staff? Specialists? Of course not...What about Accessibility? Affordability? You and me can afford and have access to it with good jobs that provide good health coverage. But how many millions avoid going to the Doctors for annual check-ups or with an on going aliment that turns life-threatening because their uninsured? How many millons can't afford their perscriptions? How many millions struggle to afford their monthly medical insurance payment?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19207050/

And you believe this because michael moore went to cuba and filmed a staged propaganda event ochestrated by Castro?

ROFLMAO.

I like how you guys try to paint me as a hugh Mike Moore believer. I understand why some hate him so. He undermines this administration and it's attitude towards Healthcare in America. And God forbid someone undermines this administration...UNPATRIOTIC TRAITORS!! How would you guys feel if he filmed "Sicko" this during the Clinton Administration? Any different? I simply noted earlier what point he was trying to make and is thought provoking, and all you guys are now accusing me of proclaiming US healthcare is inferior to third world countries. Well, may I remind you guys the debate is about ACCESS and AFFORDABILITY,not quality. Of course we have some of the best health professionals and facilities in the world but with the cost of those facilities and medical equipment and supplies, medical mal-practise insurance and medical school loans I don't see any relief in affordability.So besides having to line their pockets with the almighty dollar,they also must be sub-servent to Insurance companies and Pharmacuetical industries. And the Alternative Health Community might have a thing or two to say about that.(Thats a whole new thread we can discuss).

Hey Deisel,
Why go through this second hand.
On your next vacation fly to Venezuela. (Hiring a bodygaurd is optional, but recommended).
If you have not been kidnapped for ransom, book a flight to Havana.
When you get there just look around. Step on a rusty nail, cut your finger on an old tin can or just get diarrea from eating the local food.
Then, asked for medical attention.
After you have done this, let me know how it went.

Don't underestimate the competense of a Cuban Doctor, they sudy home and abroad in many int'l medical communites and apply their skills worldwide.True some defect after witnessing freedom, family and cashing in on capitalism. As a boy my pediactric doctor was a Cuban who studied in Cuba. And my sons grew up seeing a Cuban born Pediatric as well. So I would feel very confident to recieve treatment over their.

 

[moreluck]

"Next to Iraq, the student loan fiasco destroying affordable higher education and turning our children into lifelong debt serfs should be a central issue in the presidential campaign."

Diesel96...OUR kids have no choice but student loans because all the freebie or reduced-cost education is given to illegal aliens. They have more perks than our own citizens.......

Until every kid who wants an education is given one, there should be no illegal aliens in our colleges.

 

[Jones]

Diesel96...OUR kids have no choice but student loans because all the freebie or reduced-cost education is given to illegal aliens. They have more perks than our own citizens.......

Until every kid who wants an education is given one, there should be no illegal aliens in our colleges.

That's interesting. I was not aware that there were significant numbers of illegal aliens going to college for free. Do you have a link to some statistics on that?